Giving Every Frame an Ult. Bad idea? Alternative options?

[SSH83]

Players enjoy especially powerful moments that spice up the regular flow of combat. To accomplish that, many game designers give every character class an overpower "ultimate ability" with a long cooldown. That means many games today feel similar common issues.

1. To make a new class stand out, their ult needs to be extra overpowered... breaking balance.
2. Play a class you don’t enjoy because their “ult” is too good for a map/boss.
3. OP Ult are “balanced” by weaker normal abilities. Inevitably some classes are “boring except when ult is up.”
4. Difficulty swing. A fight becomes too easy when everyone has their ult, but too hard when nobody has ult.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not banning ultimate abilities. Some character archetypes work best with an ult, but it shouldn’t be every class. Also, I want to upgrade ultimate abilities, but in a global sense. Here are some other options.

1) How about Ultimate abilities that are not tied to specific characters/omni-frame, but tied to specific content. That means everyone can play with the cool new ultimate ability without giving up their favorite frame. Some examples:

1. Content-Specific Ultimate. Let’s say a kaiju with gaseous breath also drops explosive blobs whenever it attacks. After tuning your omni-frame’s Anti-Kaiju module to counter this kaiju (via quest chain, drop reward, crafting, etc.), you can now pick up those blobs to charge a new ultimate attack. Later on, if there are multiple kaiju in the same encounter, you can use the ultimate attacks learned from both Kaiju on either target.

Since each of these ultimate can only be used when the respective kaiju is on the field, the designer can design encounters with precise control of what ultimates are available, and not have to balance around all ultimates in the game.​

1. Clan and Structural Ultimate. Your clan is defending a base and that base can be customized to have ultimate abilities like a map-clearing nuke and an anti-kaiju rail cannon. To recharge the ability, the team picks up Tsi-Hu energy core from kills and deposits it.

2) Integrate the Ultimate/Core Ability into combat interactions. Let’s take the Execute archetype for this exploration. This class has a cc, a dash, a damage ability, and their ult can execute targets with low health by doing triple damage when the target is below 30% health. To “balance” the OP damage of the ult, the ult is on a long cooldown. Now let’s see some ways of designing the same archetype without an ult.

1. Turn ultimate ability into a combo mechanic that rewards tactical play. Instead of controlling the frequency of Execute by locking it behind a cooldown, make it a combo effect that players actively plan their play to achieve. Ex: While the target is affected by the cc ability, each weak-point hit from a weapon increases the next damage ability cast on the target by 100%, stacking up to 300%. So instead of waiting for cooldown to finish, the player is actively making the ultimate execute burst damage possible.

1. Bake the theme into the base kit and diversify instead of magnify. Ultimates by nature double-down on the magnitude of its role. So the Execute class is OP at killing one target, but is very useless in any other situation.

Instead of a single-target ultimate, we can give special power-up conditions to all abilities, and allow the class to shine in more situations. We change the base damage ability to get a multiplier depending on the target's remaining health. Also, CC and Dash abilities now also deal damage to enemies under 30%. Furthermore, Enemies killed by Dash ability will explode, dealing AoE damage. Killing with CC ability will heal the player. Now the player has 3 types of ‘execute’ effects that they can choose tactically: Big single-hit, AoE damage, or sustain.​

 

[liandri]

Fond of 1b, that sounds like a base defence encounter. Surely we can use the Kaiju against themselves.

Personally, I'm not for having an ultimate. Rather than have an ability I can only use every 5-10 minutes or whenever I gain enough charges/do enough damage, I'd prefer the extra slot for an ability I could synergize with everything else.

If anything, I'd prefer an "Overcharged" ability slot. Every ability given a set multiplier value and a special effect that triggers when placed into the slot, but it keeps the same cooldown as normal. It instead uses core energy to trigger. Use it, lose x core energy for however long it takes for you to recharge that. Use it too often, you don't have enough energy to run other abilities, jumpjets, and eventually a full shutdown. Risk and reward.

 

[Wyntyr]

I've always wanted an Ultimate slot that you place whichever Ability you want in it. Thus any ability can be an ultimate and add previous ultimate's as abilities. I.E. Firecat's Fuel Air Bomb Ultimate could continue to be an Ultimate but if i wanted an Ultimate Afterburner I can switch them and have a Fuel Air Bomb Ability and one helluva Afterburner Ultimate.

 

[Pandagnome]

I could imagine this

Vehicles
Would have their own ultimates that work better on certain vehicles but can be used on others as an example

Truck - could have a power bash where the front of the truck is reinforced by 50% and reduces damage to charge into an enemy. It could work on other vehicles but since as an example the truck is the toughest it would have more health compared to a light vehicle.

Motorbikes and lighter vehicles could have a super turbo ultimate that pushes the speed for good recon times and pursuits. This also is good for any vehicles but the lighter/medium vehicles have an advantage with speed than a heavy one.


Pilots
Ultimates are skills that have been upgraded to the next rank, they could have as an example
better efficiency or better duration etc depends on the ultimate.

An example an ultimate vision could give you X-ray vision and see through walls for longer

 

[Thorp]

I am not opposed to ultimate abilities but I am not a fan of them. Players tend to use ultimate abilities as a crutch to solve their problems or as their main means of combat engagement. Ultimates tend to be so affective that they near singlehandedly "turn the tables" or "turn the tides" without much of a possible answer from the receiving end. Additionally players tend to rely on ultimates and will not make aggressive moves or have confidence without their ultimate ability to back them up. When players are regularly announcing the cooldown of their ultimate ability I believe there is something wrong with the gameplay. I do believe ultimates can be an abiliity that is too good to be a regular ability but in no way something players can always rely on.

One of the main reasons I stopped playing and watching Overwatch was the reliance of ultimate abilities. Each match seemed like teams were just waiting for their ultimate before really pushing and the opponents either followed up with their own ultimates or wiped. I haven't watched or played in years so perhaps it's changed.

I prefer the push & pull struggle of combat whereas ultimates tend to just shove outcomes.

On the other note: Should players have access to base technology that acts like an ultimate ability? Yes I believe if the gameplay is done well players could earn reprieve or plan to use an ultimate ability. However I do not want to see these abilities as the main way to defeat enemies.

 

[Mahdi]

I would've to echo much of the current sentiment with ult's being OP and a crutch. I tend to lean towards the any ability in the ult slot and put them on heavy cool downs. I also want to be honest in that Em-8ER will need ult's to drive player customization and opening world tech trees.

The clan I rolled with in firefall thrived on how to break the builds. The great thing was that the only time they got pissed at updates and re-modeling their frames as when they crushed the assaults perma flight builds (tiger claw and firecat). Outside of that, we all just treated it as 'back to the drawing board.'

I do sincerely hope that Em-8ER does keep the idea of frames not being able to just purple everything. Have to balance weak spots for the strong ones to suit play styles.

 

[Omnires]

I think that rather than a ult linked to the frame it would be better if we had combo abilities that can overlap to make something with more effect. You take an ability the pilot has, an ability of the frame itself, and the ability of the weapon you are using. Those 3 abilities combined will make your ult. And the best thing about it is the ult will change based on the abilities you use.

For example.
Pilot ability - Sharp Eyes. This passive ability lets the pilot spot enemies from farther away and track their movements. Can more easily lead moving targets.
Frame ability - Has wide field of view and long range radar that can lock-on up to 20 different targets at once. Has stronger legs to carry more mass but moves at a slower speed than base model legs for extra stability.
Weapon ability - This rapid fire missile pod can will lock-on to a target and fire. Tap the trigger to fire one missile. Hold the trigger to aim more missiles, each with their own lock-on target. When you release the trigger all the pre armed missiles fire out of the pod 4 at a time. This missile pod holds 40 missiles at once.

Combining all those abilities at once and you can fire up to 20 missiles at once. Be it all 20 missiles hitting 1 target or 20 missiles hitting 20 different targets or any number in between. All based on how long you hold the trigger and what you pick as target. But given how each missile needs their own lock-on the time it takes for all the missiles to get a lock would be what keeps the ability from being spammed.

Pilot ability - Kinetic Linking. This is both a passive and an active ability. It lets the pilot move their body in such a way to make the most use out of the kinetic energy leaving or entering their body as they direct the energy to go where they want it to go.
Frame ability - Has extra powerful thrusters designed for moving fast and changing direction quickly, at the cost of lower fuel economy and outputting more heat. Has pneumatic spikes in the feet and hands that it can use to anchor itself to things.
Weapon ability - A sword made of strong materials with a high specific heat capacity. This weapon can absorb a large amount of heat in it's blade. It is possible to use this heat to help the sword cut through things faster with less effort.

Combining all this abilities at once and you have a frame that can do things like a super powerful melee attack by using it's thrusters for more speed while also using the pneumatic spikes in the feet root itself to the ground. Or having them shoot off like a drag racer by rooting itself to the ground and letting the thrusters reach max power before letting go. All the while the heat from the thrusters are used to make the sword hotter and hotter. This type of fighting is only for pilots with fast reflexes and able to withstand high G forces.

You kind of get my point. Don't make abilities that are linked to only one thing. Have them overlap and link to each other to make something new and greater than the sum of its parts. That way everyone can make up their own "ult" ability by mixing and matching the abilities of the pilot with the weapon they are using and the stats of the frame. After all, as anyone who is trained to fight can tell you. You use your weapons at their best when you get to the point where you view them as an extension of your body. And that is a lot easier to do when you are not fighting against your own nature. Because everyone has their own natural fighting style that they will always default to subconsciously.

 

[Pandagnome]

I think that rather than a ult linked to the frame it would be better if we had combo abilities that can overlap to make something with more effect. You take an ability the pilot has, an ability of the frame itself, and the ability of the weapon you are using. Those 3 abilities combined will make your ult. And the best thing about it is the ult will change based on the abilities you use.

This would make it much more unique to the players game play, my concern is with so many combinations i hope they can be decent across the board but not super crazy otherwise it is much more nerfs and buffs cycle.

Some of us may find the ideas of so many ultimates complicated, perhaps having access to preview the combination. I have always liked using the testing area in warframe because then i could figure out if it was right for me.

In warframe my fave frame Exaclibutt was nerfed even though he is my fave the range of the exhalted blade and the removal of super jump ability ages ago made me stop playing that frame.

Some weapons were once great in warframe and then just get over looked in a pile of weapons just to get for mastery rank points. Its as if the weapons have a shelf life and then something new comes out, although the mods can help seems rivens are even trickier and sometimes not even worth it depending on the disposition and if your roll of getting good stats...i am glad some weapons still work decent.

On top of that some frames have great synergy with certain weapons so it is a lot of things to think about
and i do get why they do that just can be overwhelming when there is so much to choose from.

Now i much prefer Ivara the stealth frame she is much more slower however compensate with my tactical arrows and the use of an ignis wraith and a mod to cut sound to be a ninja cook. Also able to just go through lasers without tripping any sensors so the spy missions can be done with good effect.


An idea to make our pets more useful having them be part of the ultimate what i mean is for a solo player you could inherit 80% of the stats of the pet and if you are in a team depending how many there are you still get a % from your chosen pet.

Example

Pet alligator
- Snap ability traps the opponent for a few seconds 2 targets every 15seconds targeting with snap
- Lay low the opponent cannot see you well until ability is run out
- Tail whip the opponent is wacked away giving you some breathing room.

Since you inherit the stats of your pet their abilities will become more of a passive and work on a cool down.

The down side of integrating your pet to your mek is that damage inflicted harms you both equally.
Unlinking your pet to your mek automatically occurs when the ultimate has finished.

What if the clan had a clan ultimate such as in the visionary placing down the banner/totem
this could grant the team e.g. depending on their chosen clan creature e.g. cheetah could provide the clan speed.

Clan ultimates go back into the totem or banner staff but they can be used a limited time and need to be replenished by special crystals to super charge its stored power. If the clans ultimate runs out it does not work so everyone must keep an eye on their clan ultimate creature who can turn wild and escape leaving the clan to recapture and store back otherwise the creature can be stolen by the tsihu and become an ultimate beast :O