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My 2 cents on photo real vs. not lies herein stated:
1st cent
FF was not photo real. FF was great. Melding was orgasmic great.
I literally would sit for ages just watching at the edge of the melding up where the giant trees were and watch it ebb and flow in and out of the huge trees for lengths of time which I dare not state for fear of having the men in the white coats be sent for me.
These huge trees, that gorgeous melding, that depth and 3D aspect of that and other regions likely would not have been possible at all if it had been attempted in photo real style.
Not sticking with photo realism lets literally anything be possible because our little human minds don't say, "Hey, that looks funny." when we see things that are strange and not normal in photo-real renderings. Such photo real approaches can make things appear wrong because the photo real aspect tricks our little human minds into expecting some variant of reality in a fundamentally unreal game world.
Some games photo real is good (as they strive to re-create reality). I don't think we are doing that here...
2nd cent
Photo real as has been stated is more processing intensive (bad) and by it's very nature is not as well suited to this kind of universe we have in Em8ER where we'll have lots of weird and wonderful things and morphing of lands and biomes and skills and abilities and all that great stuff.
The Hunter Call of the Wild - photo real is great!
Em8ER photo real is not so great.
My 2 cents.
1st cent
FF was not photo real. FF was great. Melding was orgasmic great.
I literally would sit for ages just watching at the edge of the melding up where the giant trees were and watch it ebb and flow in and out of the huge trees for lengths of time which I dare not state for fear of having the men in the white coats be sent for me.
These huge trees, that gorgeous melding, that depth and 3D aspect of that and other regions likely would not have been possible at all if it had been attempted in photo real style.
Not sticking with photo realism lets literally anything be possible because our little human minds don't say, "Hey, that looks funny." when we see things that are strange and not normal in photo-real renderings. Such photo real approaches can make things appear wrong because the photo real aspect tricks our little human minds into expecting some variant of reality in a fundamentally unreal game world.
Some games photo real is good (as they strive to re-create reality). I don't think we are doing that here...
2nd cent
Photo real as has been stated is more processing intensive (bad) and by it's very nature is not as well suited to this kind of universe we have in Em8ER where we'll have lots of weird and wonderful things and morphing of lands and biomes and skills and abilities and all that great stuff.
The Hunter Call of the Wild - photo real is great!
Em8ER photo real is not so great.
My 2 cents.
I feel like I am among the very few who were not completely ecstatic about the terrain demo. I have not downloaded it yet but watching Grummz's stream I was struck by how beautiful it was, it looks like a nice place to visit...on earth.
And I think that was my problem, it didn't really look alien. We have Earth green plants, palm tree's and grasses that could again be found on earth today. Nothing is really different save the size of earth existing barnacles. We had nice blue water, bright blue sky, again all earth normal.
Just a couple of thoughts here...
Lighting:
Io's atmosphere is 90% sulfur dioxide. The blue in our atmosphere is created from light being bent by our predominantly Nitrogen atmosphere. On a planet based on Io's structure there will never be a significant amount of nitrogen (though there will be plenty of available oxygen) even with teraforming. So instead of blue the sky of Em-8er woulf appear yellowish in color.
Additionally another question that must be asked is how thick is the atmosphere. Even for a planet the same size as earth it isn't guarenteed the atmosphere will be the same thickness. A thinner atmosphere would cause the sky even in daytime to be darker and possibly stars to shine through.
Em-8er's Star and photosynthesis:
Is it an exact replica of Earth's sun? With the number of possible variables in play the chances of it being identical would be slim, if Em-8er is not orbiting a gas giant (which would be bloody awesome!) then the planet is going to potentially orbit its star at a much further distance (to explain the super cold environment) which means the sun will appear smaller than what we see on earth. More importantly, particularly with a Sulfur Dioxide atmosphere the lighting is going to mean any chlorophyll type structures are going to be designed to absorb different spectrum's, which means that native flora would not be the same shade of green as on Earth, or possibly not green at all. There are already multiple earth based species like this.
DNA structure:
So Em-8er is sulfur and silicate based, with much smaller amounts of carbon and almost no nitrogen which are heavily used in Earth based lifeforms. Additionally there is no major sources of water on Em-8er. Life as we know it would be drastically different from anything found on earth. There are multiple reasons why Carbon is the primary basis for Earth life, a large part of that is because of how much water we have. Carbon and water go hand in hand, but Silicon and Water do not (hence why silicon is the basis for so many waterproof compounds).
This is why you will never see Silicon used in Earth based life. There is the additional problem that Silicon needs tremendous amounts of heat in order to achieve the same usefulness as Carbon in making chains.
Interestingly enough, Em-8er seems to fit the bill for a possible Silicon based life. It's volcanic nature without water could be the perfect breeding ground. One thing is for certain, life on Em-8er would look NOTHING like it does on earth. There might be some Earthlike analogies but that is about it.
And I think that was my problem, it didn't really look alien. We have Earth green plants, palm tree's and grasses that could again be found on earth today. Nothing is really different save the size of earth existing barnacles. We had nice blue water, bright blue sky, again all earth normal.
Just a couple of thoughts here...
Lighting:
Io's atmosphere is 90% sulfur dioxide. The blue in our atmosphere is created from light being bent by our predominantly Nitrogen atmosphere. On a planet based on Io's structure there will never be a significant amount of nitrogen (though there will be plenty of available oxygen) even with teraforming. So instead of blue the sky of Em-8er woulf appear yellowish in color.
Additionally another question that must be asked is how thick is the atmosphere. Even for a planet the same size as earth it isn't guarenteed the atmosphere will be the same thickness. A thinner atmosphere would cause the sky even in daytime to be darker and possibly stars to shine through.
Em-8er's Star and photosynthesis:
Is it an exact replica of Earth's sun? With the number of possible variables in play the chances of it being identical would be slim, if Em-8er is not orbiting a gas giant (which would be bloody awesome!) then the planet is going to potentially orbit its star at a much further distance (to explain the super cold environment) which means the sun will appear smaller than what we see on earth. More importantly, particularly with a Sulfur Dioxide atmosphere the lighting is going to mean any chlorophyll type structures are going to be designed to absorb different spectrum's, which means that native flora would not be the same shade of green as on Earth, or possibly not green at all. There are already multiple earth based species like this.
DNA structure:
So Em-8er is sulfur and silicate based, with much smaller amounts of carbon and almost no nitrogen which are heavily used in Earth based lifeforms. Additionally there is no major sources of water on Em-8er. Life as we know it would be drastically different from anything found on earth. There are multiple reasons why Carbon is the primary basis for Earth life, a large part of that is because of how much water we have. Carbon and water go hand in hand, but Silicon and Water do not (hence why silicon is the basis for so many waterproof compounds).
This is why you will never see Silicon used in Earth based life. There is the additional problem that Silicon needs tremendous amounts of heat in order to achieve the same usefulness as Carbon in making chains.
Interestingly enough, Em-8er seems to fit the bill for a possible Silicon based life. It's volcanic nature without water could be the perfect breeding ground. One thing is for certain, life on Em-8er would look NOTHING like it does on earth. There might be some Earthlike analogies but that is about it.
As I understand it, we are there to terraform the planet pocket by pocket into "livable" areas which in the game play means that Em8ER can have biomes of any sort one can imagine.
The first example was to create an example biome that is like Copa in FF (sort of Earthlike).
However, in Em8ER there is no reason why the next biome could not be one which replicates a planet that is not in any way Earthlike.
In the way that FF had the different spaces, Em8ER can have any number of totally different spaces as "terraformed" locations.
One can be Earthlike (because we terraform it to be like Earth (Terra with a "T"), the next could be like "old Mars" or like some exo-planet we can only dream about.
So, I am OK with having some things Earthlike, but I expect to see a lot more variety as time go on with weird and wonderful biomes that have nothing Earthlike about them.
I hope this is correct, as it means there will really be no limits to what is created over time in Em8ER.
The first example was to create an example biome that is like Copa in FF (sort of Earthlike).
However, in Em8ER there is no reason why the next biome could not be one which replicates a planet that is not in any way Earthlike.
In the way that FF had the different spaces, Em8ER can have any number of totally different spaces as "terraformed" locations.
One can be Earthlike (because we terraform it to be like Earth (Terra with a "T"), the next could be like "old Mars" or like some exo-planet we can only dream about.
So, I am OK with having some things Earthlike, but I expect to see a lot more variety as time go on with weird and wonderful biomes that have nothing Earthlike about them.
I hope this is correct, as it means there will really be no limits to what is created over time in Em8ER.
It looked amazing. Only one nitpick which jumped at me: coastlines generally have an area with no vegetation and heavy erosion stretching beyond high tide. There's generally a sharp small cliff where soil begins, as the waves will have washed away anything below it. I live by the coast, so it was immediately obvious to me. Basically, waves washing over soil and grass wouldn't happen.
Likes:
Aphaz and Pandagnome
Make the game so much interesting visiting the different biomes each with its unique beauty and even dangers 
But what if a big Sea kaiju was having a bath and moved a lot hmm
But what if a big Sea kaiju was having a bath and moved a lot hmm
Likes:
UngrullRocksplitter
Indeed, if we have lots of water, that might be fun to have it come in and swamp a coastal area because of the see Kaiju making waves. We could also have newly hatched sea Kaiju swimming around in the submerged New Copa bar like little Kaiju mermaids.
Perhaps by tampering with the planet we unleashed a new breed of sea Kaiju that were dormant as eggs frozen in the ice.
Em8ER II - The Sequel
Combat the mysterious Squidjus!
Perhaps by tampering with the planet we unleashed a new breed of sea Kaiju that were dormant as eggs frozen in the ice.
Em8ER II - The Sequel
Combat the mysterious Squidjus!
Outdated rant. Mark delivered:
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/em-8er-chief-chat-thursday-june-18-2019.1507/#post-46622
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/em-8er-chief-chat-thursday-june-18-2019.1507/#post-46622
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hmm well one thing i do know its very early stage and doubt it would be like the other game.
Likes:
Markolis and TheDragonMonkey
I really hope so but having an artistic vision is extremely important and healthy for the game. It dictates animation speed, particle effects, the world building and how much resource allocation you need.
If you do it backwards you'll end up with an incompatible product that will make people turn their heads.
You can see this in any game where the concept art vastly differs from the final product because the people in charge thought it would "just work".
A recent example is Anthem where they cut out the cataclysm shader they had in the beginning and implemented it back in the end where all they could muster up with was tinting the screen blue because everything else from that demo was incompatible.
If you do it backwards you'll end up with an incompatible product that will make people turn their heads.
You can see this in any game where the concept art vastly differs from the final product because the people in charge thought it would "just work".
A recent example is Anthem where they cut out the cataclysm shader they had in the beginning and implemented it back in the end where all they could muster up with was tinting the screen blue because everything else from that demo was incompatible.
I agree the art vision is important, and we are only shown very early stage so these extra details may not be seen right away because its a process to make something amazing. There is a lot of stuff going on behind the scene before that happens.
Eventually we will witness the true vision of Em8er!!!
Not sure on Anthem demo but perhaps they just rushed it and as a result had issues hmm
Another reason why i have confidence in the team is that they show us the early work, then we provide feedback then dev's look into it could alter things, keep certain things the same, add things and even fix parts before moving ahead and the process continues.
It does mean however a bit more time spent but i am ok with that, although at times get very impatient but have to understand that they want to provide us the best version of Em8er.
imagine you are an artist who wants to put an art work in your gallery you have 2
1) Modern Art lets call it life is full of turds = strange turds with ribbons and balloons scattered stuck to a frame on the ceiling!
2) Master Piece lets call it unknown world = An image of a surreal environment with figures emerging from the distance
Ah here comes 2 buyers hello buyers \o.
Buyer 1: that turd is hot
Buyer 2: sniffs you smell that
Buyer 1: no
Buyer 2 looks above
Buyer 1: Waaaaaaaaaaaa
Buyer 2: looks on O.O
Buyer 1: is covered in turd
Buyer 2: nods right i am buying the master piece
Buyer 1: sighs
Moral of the story master piece crafted with meticulous effort and skill, other piece is a pile of turd!
Eventually we will witness the true vision of Em8er!!!
Not sure on Anthem demo but perhaps they just rushed it and as a result had issues hmm
Another reason why i have confidence in the team is that they show us the early work, then we provide feedback then dev's look into it could alter things, keep certain things the same, add things and even fix parts before moving ahead and the process continues.
It does mean however a bit more time spent but i am ok with that, although at times get very impatient but have to understand that they want to provide us the best version of Em8er.
imagine you are an artist who wants to put an art work in your gallery you have 2
1) Modern Art lets call it life is full of turds = strange turds with ribbons and balloons scattered stuck to a frame on the ceiling!
2) Master Piece lets call it unknown world = An image of a surreal environment with figures emerging from the distance
Ah here comes 2 buyers hello buyers \o.
Buyer 1: that turd is hot
Buyer 2: sniffs you smell that
Buyer 1: no
Buyer 2 looks above
Buyer 1: Waaaaaaaaaaaa
Buyer 2: looks on O.O
Buyer 1: is covered in turd
Buyer 2: nods right i am buying the master piece
Buyer 1: sighs
Moral of the story master piece crafted with meticulous effort and skill, other piece is a pile of turd!
Likes:
PIghead Elderberry
Well I'm not going to point out the problems in the demo, it's a ridiculously early version and of course there are going to be problems. I'll just say 'thank you!' to Mark and the team for letting me see all this progress so early on. Most of us, hardcore gamers and casuals alike, never get to see this early stuff.
I will also say that I got the old FF feels from this...
I will also say that I got the old FF feels from this...
I watched the livestream and played the terrain demo. I definitely hope this is not the art direction of the game because it looks like the generic full bright Chinese Battle Royale Futuristic Shooter.
And I really mean that.
This is a screenshot from a failed Chinese Battle Royale that had to be pulled from the Steam store:
The Art demo was much better in terms of vision and style. It seemed much more gritty and almost straight out of Pacific Rim.
- The biggest mistake a lot of visual mediums do is recreate the real world as accurately as possible when in fact the human brain bases its judgment on fragments that it remembers. The beach is usually super bright in real life while the brain remembers the colors blue and orange. In my screenshot of the terrain build I only see blue, gray and green which is the opposite of what I remember visually of a beach.
I heavily suggest in future builds that you experiment with color tinted lights and fog to create a feel which you did in the Art build.
- Foliage is animated but when you run everything looks static. If you want to mitigate this I would recommend that you speed up the timescale for foliage when the player state is set to running. This will also make the world "move with you" as you stagger around, even if you are in a mech.
- I don't know if it's due to time constraints but ground should be painted with grass texture if foliage is above it. Right now we have grass growing on sand and rock which looks quite odd.
- You should never have a bright sky. This is something to consider as a wallpaper for the eyes.
If you played any Wii or a Nintendo game for that matter you'll always notice how much detail they put in the skybox to make it look like there's a world around you. I think Overwatch is also another example of this:
Tinted sky with different layers of clouds.
- You should also cutdown on texture resolutions because there is no reason to have 4K textures on trees. Most "gamers" build monster rigs to be able to multi task or be competitive and a lot of them run the game with no AA which means everything looks like a glitter fest. The monster's high resolution bump maps caused a lot of strain on the eyes because of the thousand tiny lit areas.
I understand people can set texture resolution to low but they want their mech and character to look good, not the trees or random rocks.
You should go back and forth between the Art and Terrain build to understand how to visually transfer the same theme without making it look like a battle royale/rust clone. Those games need to look like this because of the huge amount of players and spawned assets in the world.
And I really mean that.
This is a screenshot from a failed Chinese Battle Royale that had to be pulled from the Steam store:
The Art demo was much better in terms of vision and style. It seemed much more gritty and almost straight out of Pacific Rim.
- The biggest mistake a lot of visual mediums do is recreate the real world as accurately as possible when in fact the human brain bases its judgment on fragments that it remembers. The beach is usually super bright in real life while the brain remembers the colors blue and orange. In my screenshot of the terrain build I only see blue, gray and green which is the opposite of what I remember visually of a beach.
I heavily suggest in future builds that you experiment with color tinted lights and fog to create a feel which you did in the Art build.
- Foliage is animated but when you run everything looks static. If you want to mitigate this I would recommend that you speed up the timescale for foliage when the player state is set to running. This will also make the world "move with you" as you stagger around, even if you are in a mech.
- I don't know if it's due to time constraints but ground should be painted with grass texture if foliage is above it. Right now we have grass growing on sand and rock which looks quite odd.
- You should never have a bright sky. This is something to consider as a wallpaper for the eyes.
If you played any Wii or a Nintendo game for that matter you'll always notice how much detail they put in the skybox to make it look like there's a world around you. I think Overwatch is also another example of this:
Tinted sky with different layers of clouds.
- You should also cutdown on texture resolutions because there is no reason to have 4K textures on trees. Most "gamers" build monster rigs to be able to multi task or be competitive and a lot of them run the game with no AA which means everything looks like a glitter fest. The monster's high resolution bump maps caused a lot of strain on the eyes because of the thousand tiny lit areas.
I understand people can set texture resolution to low but they want their mech and character to look good, not the trees or random rocks.
You should go back and forth between the Art and Terrain build to understand how to visually transfer the same theme without making it look like a battle royale/rust clone. Those games need to look like this because of the huge amount of players and spawned assets in the world.
Ok, I seem to now realise that I have the 'bit' between my teeth but here is a LINK: Firefall gameplay around old Copa (the vid quality is not my fault) to what an early FF looked like - as you can see what has inspired the 'New Copa terrain demo' of a possible result from terraforming of an Ice/rocky planet called Em-8er. And the potential of further 'butterflies' aka greatness !!
- as you can see what has inspired the 'New Copa terrain demo' of a possible result from terraforming of an Ice/rocky planet called Em-8er. And the potential of further 'butterflies' aka greatness !!
Ok, I seem to now realise that I have the 'bit' between my teeth but here is a LINK: Firefall gameplay around old Copa (the vid quality is not my fault) to what an early FF looked like - as you can see what has inspired the 'New Copa terrain demo' of a possible result from terraforming of an Ice/rocky planet called Em-8er. And the potential of further 'butterflies' aka greatness !!
- as you can see what has inspired the 'New Copa terrain demo' of a possible result from terraforming of an Ice/rocky planet called Em-8er. And the potential of further 'butterflies' aka greatness !!
Outdated rant. Mark delivered:
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/em-8er-chief-chat-thursday-june-18-2019.1507/#post-46622
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/em-8er-chief-chat-thursday-june-18-2019.1507/#post-46622
Last edited:
The only pbr i know is this but i am guessing this is not it still wonder how difficult it be riding a kaiju
I have to admit the cell shading looked great for the game it still holds up today when looking back at old videos of firefall.
The introduction to wifus/husbandos & the artstyle have no complaints there!
My only curiosity what is the art style going to be like exactly?
Are they still figuring out the right style perhaps or have they already got the art style in mind but keeping it secret hmm
I am pondering if the art would be more like a biomutant style than a cell shaded style anime hmm
I have to admit the cell shading looked great for the game it still holds up today when looking back at old videos of firefall.
The introduction to wifus/husbandos & the artstyle have no complaints there!
My only curiosity what is the art style going to be like exactly?
Are they still figuring out the right style perhaps or have they already got the art style in mind but keeping it secret hmm
I am pondering if the art would be more like a biomutant style than a cell shaded style anime hmm
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