Damaged Systems, (Frame Part-Specific) Penalties/Impairments

[MattHunX]

In Firefall, I actually liked the way the frame could sustain damage and without repairs it suffered increasingly more.

We've already talked about equipment degradation and that breaking shouldn't be a thing.

And perhaps worsening damage-resistance/increased susceptibility to damage shouldn't be the penalty, either.

Instead, we could have different debilitating effects at different thresholds of system-damage. Damage to servos could cause reduced movement, melee and aim speed, separately at different stages, until all would eventually be effecting us until we'd get repairs. Damage to legs could effect booster efficiency. Core damage could effect maximum energy and its recharge-rate that could effect ability usage. Damage to sensors/head could effect field of vision and reduce the range at which we can target enemies, mark them, use our ranged weapons, scramble radar/mini-map...etc.

Also, could enemy AI be designed as such that they'd (either immediately or eventually) would (try to) target specific parts of our frame to make sure that some our systems would get damaged enough to cause us persistent penalties, until we'd get ourselves repaired.

Also, outside our frames, could we break a leg?

 

[Nubilus]

All in all good idea. BUT what if my leg-servos get DESTROYED? will i be unable to move at all or just VERY slowly (80% slower?). If my core gets destroyed wil my frame explode and kill me or will all my systems be on emergency power (assuming there IS some kind of failsafe).
This would also mean there has to be some kind of locational damage calculations as well as resistances for the parts you attached.

 

[MattHunX]

All in all good idea. BUT what if my leg-servos get DESTROYED? will i be unable to move at all or just VERY slowly (80% slower?). If my core gets destroyed wil my frame explode and kill me or will all my systems be on emergency power (assuming there IS some kind of failsafe).
This would also mean there has to be some kind of locational damage calculations as well as resistances for the parts you attached.

YEP. Well, not to all of those. You wouldn't explode, your frame would need lots of very costly repairs that, even if you had a lot of resources, you might not necessarily have all you need for a full repair and you would have to go on a bit of a scavanger hunt in areas you can handle with a heavily damage frame and carefully collect drops and loot you can use to steadily repair your systems. Players who cannot be bothered to maintain their frame (no matter their play-style) should be punished.

 

[Nubilus]

You wouldn't explode, your frame would need lots of very costly repairs that, even if you had a lot of resources, you might not necessarily have all you need for a full repair and you would have to go on a bit of a scavanger hunt in areas you can handle with a heavily damage frame and carefully collect drops and loot you can use to steadily repair your systems.

So like: "Oh, I'm missing some parts... better fix what i can and head out scavengin' "
Adds some risk in fighting and also a lil' roleplaying feel. Imagine being a scavenger and selling spare parts to players.

Players who cannot be bothered to maintain their frame (no matter their play-style) should be punished.

Amen to that. Since your Omniframe is basically a vehicle you want (and have to) maintain it to stay alive.

 

[Vladplaya]

I would suggest very basic three damage areas, Appendages, Core, Head. With appendages doing less damage, core is normal damage, and head having bonus damage.

That's about as far as I would go, simply because this game is not aiming to be realistic tactical shooter. I think penalizing players by worsening gameplay experience would slow things down too much. Again something like that works in slow tactical games where you move carefully and spend most of gameplay hiding and taking cover.

In Ember we will be running and jetting around in a bulky frames, and getting penalized by getting hit from someone randomly spraying and praying would probably get annoying pretty quick.

And finally I don't want this game to turn into a mech warrior, armored core or whatever else. I know we will be running in mechas but I still prefer it to feel like we are characters, and not vehicles.

Just my 2c

 

[Torgue_Joey]

I USED TO BE A REAPER LIKE YOU, BUT THEN I TOOK A RABBIT IN KNEE

(OVERRATED SKYRIM JOKE IS OVERRATED, SHUT UP ALREADY)

 

[Torgue_Joey]

And finally I don't want this game to turn into a mech warrior, armored core or whatever else. I know we will be running in mechas but I still prefer it to feel like we are characters, and not vehicles.

WASN'T THAT GRUMMZ ORIGINAL VISION? WHAT ABOUT THOSE POOR TANKS LAYING AROUND?

 

[MattHunX]

I USED TO BE A REAPER LIKE YOU, BUT THEN I TOOK A RABBIT IN KNEE

(OVERRATED SKYRIM JOKE IS OVERRATED, SHUT UP ALREADY)

I may be forgetting something from Borderlands, but...I still don't get the rabbit reference.

*the explosion noise from @Torgue_Joey 's head exploding*

 

[MattHunX]

WASN'T THAT GRUMMZ ORIGINAL VISION? WHAT ABOUT THOSE POOR TANKS LAYING AROUND?

Blow 'em up! We don't need 'em!

 

[Torgue_Joey]

I may be forgetting something from Borderlands, but...I still don't get the rabbit reference.

*the explosion noise from @Torgue_Joey 's head exploding*

I was calling the aliens rabbit/bloody rabbits, as the concept of the tsihu was made yet (in the time mark didn't knew himself how they're gonna be named and looked like)
Bloody rabbits is more my reference of monty python's bloody rabbits.

 

[Vladplaya]

WASN'T THAT GRUMMZ ORIGINAL VISION? WHAT ABOUT THOSE POOR TANKS LAYING AROUND?

Oh he plans to have lots of vehicles in Ember alright. And he can do whatever he wants with vehicle damage models. But I think it's pretty clear that our characters are not vehicles, we will be able to run into town and do things there in our frames, and I highly doubt it will work the same with tanks, gunships and whatever else.

I don't want this game to feel like World Of Tanks, or Mech Warrior, those are fun for what they are, but because you are a vehicle there, they feel stiff, which is fine for not mmo game. And again, vehicle damage model is for vehicles, as a character it's nice to run around without having to worry about been penalized for speed, because someone randomly shot you in the leg. That stuff is for tactical games like ArmA, otherwise it just gets in the way of fun gameplay.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

Just saying, a lot is talking like the frame is the only thing in game
THAT'S WHAT MY BRAIN KEEP SAYING

wouldn't blame them, since the omniframe is the next thing in WiP of the production line

I just hate it how others are trying to compare it with others meh-ch game, or want something from other game into this game

 

[Daynen]

Some of us suggest things from other games because we feel they would make sense in this game and add an experience that could enrich the game. I wholeheartedly endorse simplicity in a lot of things, especially where complication would only cause frustration. With that said, however, there are some elements suggested that add a layer of challenge to what we fear otherwise risks being an overly simplistic (read: mindless) trigger holding exercise. We fear TOO much simplicity because a game that becomes too simple becomes too easy; easy games get forgotten more quickly and abandoned by the playerbase faster.

It's impossible not to compare this with other mech games simply because of the terminology that's being thrown around. We're people in small mechs that can fly and shoot. That statement alone instantly forces comparison to countless other games and video entertainment. Best to accept that and make the most of it.

In short, those of us who suggest taking inspiration from other games really just want a game with longevity and character; Adding the wrong layers of complexity can make a game clunky, fiddly, obtrusive, and aggravating. Adding the right layers of complexity adds a lot of depth, a higher skill ceiling, diversity of content, and most importantly, replay value.

WEDOITBECAUSEWECARE

 

[TankHunter678]

I may be forgetting something from Borderlands, but...I still don't get the rabbit reference.

"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." - Random Skyrim NPC

As for the Rabbit reference... it is a reference to 2 things.

Deadpool's Rabbid Rabbit Shotgun and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Killer Rabbit.

 

[MattHunX]

"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." - Random Skyrim NPC

As for the Rabbit reference... it is a reference to 2 things.

Deadpool's Rabbid Rabbit Shotgun and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Killer Rabbit.

I know the arrow-to-the-knee thing. Also, there may be a similar rabbit reference in...uh...Dragon Age Inquisition, maybe, where...if one kills a lot of rabbit, then a were-rabbit will show randomly show up. *shrug*

 

[TankHunter678]

I know the arrow-to-the-knee thing. Also, there may be a similar rabbit reference in...uh...Dragon Age Inquisition, maybe, where...if one kills a lot of rabbit, then a were-rabbit will show randomly show up. *shrug*

The Monty Python and the Holy Grail Kilelr Rabbit is referenced a lot as a secret boss or a rabbit that is highly dangerous and can only be killed by explosives. It even shows up in Dark Souls 3.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." - Random Skyrim NPC.

*random Skyrim GUARD

 

[Rocket]

We've already talked about equipment degradation and that breaking shouldn't be a thing.

Clearly it wasn't talked about it enough, because I think breaking should be a thing.

If my T.H.M.P.R. MEK-A can be destroyed (which must be possible, or there is no risk to balance reward) then the rest of my gear should be up for destruction as well. Maybe the base level (is that an Omni-Frame?) should not be, but every other vehicle, and it's weapons, should be up for explosive goodness.

I'd suggest that this is far from threshed out.

 

[MattHunX]

Clearly it wasn't talked about it enough, because I think breaking should be a thing.

If my T.H.M.P.R. MEK-A can be destroyed (which must be possible, or there is no risk to balance reward) then the rest of my gear should be up for destruction as well. Maybe the base level (is that an Omni-Frame?) should not be, but every other vehicle, and it's weapons, should be up for explosive goodness.

I'd suggest that this is far from threshed out.

Well, vehicles, sure. And parts of the frame could be critically damage, rendering it unusable or severely reducing whatever abilities, movement and stats it governs.

 

[Ronyn]

Clearly it wasn't talked about it enough, because I think breaking should be a thing.

If my T.H.M.P.R. MEK-A can be destroyed (which must be possible, or there is no risk to balance reward) then the rest of my gear should be up for destruction as well. Maybe the base level (is that an Omni-Frame?) should not be, but every other vehicle, and it's weapons, should be up for explosive goodness.

I'd suggest that this is far from threshed out.

Howdy. I can answer some questions on this.
Grummz spoke to this in The original fundraiser. The official descision is that your primary gear (the omniframe) will not perma-break, though it will need to be repaired. Potentially costly repairs provide ample reason to avoid personal damage or death.

Various other things can break (that may or may not include the thmpr mek) which will provide the needed churn in the economy and keep crafters crafting.

For the game history buffs -This design direction is more inline with Grummz original vision of firefall. Remember that it was meant to be a war game originally. There was always meant to be a wide variety of things (tanks, dropships, etc) that are destroyable outside of any need to apply that to the players worn gear. Unfortunately when the larger variety of things was never implemented, the team chose to increase the drain from gear alone leading to full on worn gear item destruction. This was their attempt to balance the economy. Internally Grummz pushed against that decision at the time.

In the case of Ember, Grummz and the rest of the team are going into it with the full goal of getting that larger variety of things involved. Including bases that can be built and destroyed which I am particularly excited about. This is a game about war. As Embers proclaimed genre, massive planetary wargame, makes clear.

I think when we get to see it all working together most of us will be pretty happy with it.