Chief Chat "CLAIM STAKES" VOD - 7/28/2022 - BIG REVEALS!

Grummz

$6k package
Community Manager
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
802
6,683
93
#61
One of the things that really brought appeal to my group of players in FF was that there was something for each of us.
Thirteen of us played the game, well, religiously...lol

There were crafters like myself who really enjoyed making specialty parts to sell on the market.
There were hard-core thumpers who sold raw mats on the market.
Others were combat thrill seekers, always looking for the next big pew-pew thrill...
A few were questers, they really liked the instanced stories, although they felt there wasn't enough of them.

Point is. How do we help Grummz get that balance?
What suggestions can we offer to make the game appealing to more than just the old FF fans?
What Gameplay and mechanics can we ALL agree upon that will open EM8ER up to make it a vibrant community so we can all enjoy it?

I think we can all agree we want this game to not just get off the ground... we want it to be stellar.

So, Grummz. What do you need from us?

I think that's right:

- Balance crafters vs action
- Keep action focus (people seem to think its a buliding game now in isolation. Not the intent)
- Hook a wider audience.

The key problems to solve with Firefall:

- No closed loop. Thumping and then what? Coasting between 3 dynamic events?
- Wow/Destiny content treadmill not the answer. FF post launch tried this and could not make enough content.
- Not enough reason to mine for resources. Anemic progression.
 
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Partha

Deepstriker
Ark Liege
Jul 5, 2018
25
79
13
Fredericton, Canada.
#62
Well, I guess I'll shoot some ideas out first then... [pew pew pew]
I was driving home today after the long weekend, and I was thinking of a few of the points ppl made.
All of the comments are valid so far, good or bad, liked or not. We ALL want this to roll out because we loved FF and we love what Grummz is doing.

Tutorials: I hate 'em. Most ppl hate 'em. Hell, I work for Gov. and most ppl there hate 'em and they are some of the most mind numbingly boring ppl there are... no one does 'em. Most ppl here would prefer to jump in, know that WASD moves your character and X makes you go fast. Pew pew pew, check, let's go!
Suggestion: what if the tutorials were videos. Hear me out. What if the tutorials were videos (Starship troopers want to learn more type thing) that were both on YouTube and accessible via the game's help menu? Players could do the tutorial during the non-game time OR in game at HOMEbase!

Need balance of content to draw in more than just the FF fans. Thumpers, Crafters, Killers and Questers.... Reapers & Reavers unite! What if the game had a critical mass measure, visible to everyone in HOMEbase or even in their HUD, that was influenced by whatever players did? The more people thump, extract, build, process, craft, hunt, kill, expand and uncover, the higher the critical mass becomes, until BOOM! GODZILLA! or something far more monstrous... but you get my drift right? Everything the players do in the game, no matter what they like doing, pushes that measure closer to an enemy retaliation! You could have it per sector, potentially triggering massive attacks at multiple locations at once, forcing the community to decide "where do we prioritize? What is most valuable to defend? What are we willing to sacrifice? What are we willing to lose and what are we willing to die fighting for?"
Can the system be made to record how much is reaped form the earth? How many rare or exotic items are flooding the market? What the enemy kill count is? What places and their secrets have been exhumed?
This way, it doesn't matter what you like doing, it's all going to contribute towards things getting a hell'of'a hotter in the field... and potentially triggering an elevated enemy response. Crafter, builders, fighters, RPG'ers, they are all going to have to fight in the end. You just need to get them to be invested in what they are fighting for. Right?

But I am going to agree with several of the comments about the starter kit.

>There NEEDS to be a starter frame so ppl can get in and go! That frame should be a player choice, light, medium or heavy, but it's the base model. Hell, it could be the stripped down $1 bargain model with one gun and nothing else for all I care. People should be able to chose it and go... what they DO when they go is up to them.

>Claimstakes are a great idea when you think about it, with the potential to develop uninhabited areas into thriving player generated zones where the community can open it up to others to enjoy (and yes prefabs would limit the d*(% towers from proliferating). Think City of Heroes. But they, like everything else proposed in the game, should be progressive. Players should earn their claims, starting with a practice claim, then a small one, larger, and then whatever comes next. Don't make it mandatory, but make it appealing. Make them want it, and if it's not their playstyle, then fine, maybe it will be later on... let them choose to skip it at first and review it later. I would love to create a new settlement that others would be part of, building an online community that has a real stake in defending our collective claims. [pew pew pew... oops, premature shooting, the safety was off... sorry].

>Definately have something for the Questers, not just the crafters and shooters. Have something for the nutjobs [like yours truly] that indulges their sense of exploration and pushing the limits. impossible terrains, lost ruins, terrains that defy known physics, mysterious glyphs to decipher, places the orbital station can't scan (and why?). I love a game that traps me with mysteries that I have to solve. Hell, in 2012 'The Secret World' launched. 5 years later it was relaunched as a dud/dummed down version but you know what, I STILL play that original damn game over and over because the starter zone has the most immersive frakin' mysteries... Lovecraft much?! I actually had to learn Morse code to solve one of the damn missions...lol

Grummz is right though. He's developing an indie game, he doesn't have a massive budget or staff. He needs to be able to bring in players once they go KS, but not fall into a massive 'content treadmill' that progressively becomes impossible to feed/sustain. Having the players create some of those smaller bases on the map with the ClaimStakes, might be a feasible way to do that. Player generated destructible content, that can trigger event incursions, might be a good option.

Thumping DOES need to have a deeper purpose than just the sake of getting resources and killing stuff. what if thumping also led to the meld being pushed back? if players thump enough resources in a spot, could it be possible to have a generator dropped from orbit and thus open up that area to further playability: more player structures, more incursions, ruins are discovered, more players come to extract what riches they can? Just shooting out ideas here...

What IF, thumping minerals and exotic creature resources wasn't just for the players? There's a whole station in orbit right? Don't they need mats to keep that thing going? To power it, create oxygen, etc? What if the more you contribute, the more credits you get, the more you can develop your character kit and the more the incursion meter goes up? Thus creating a progressive and accelerating momentum loop towards incursion events.

OK, that's enough for now... jebus this is a long one...lol

Keep Thumpin' Reapers & Reavers.
 
Oct 16, 2019
10
26
13
#63
Tutorials: I hate 'em. Most ppl hate 'em. Hell, I work for Gov. and most ppl there hate 'em and they are some of the most mind numbingly boring ppl there are... no one does 'em. Most ppl here would prefer to jump in, know that WASD moves your character and X makes you go fast. Pew pew pew, check, let's go!
Suggestion: what if the tutorials were videos. Hear me out. What if the tutorials were videos (Starship troopers want to learn more type thing) that were both on YouTube and accessible via the game's help menu? Players could do the tutorial during the non-game time OR in game at HOMEbase!
Tutorials aren't usually fun, and most people don't need like to do them, but you *absolutely* need to have them in-game in some manner. Without them, you will almost never draw in completely new gamers - not everyone has experience with shooters, or MMOs, or even games *at all*. While it's definitely rarer nowadays for people not to know how to play a game - particularly at the ages that Em8er is going to be catering towards - throwing people in with no guidance is a huge quit factor.

The trick is - and this seems to be what Grummz wants - is to have an ACTIVE tutorial: you learn the game as you play, and as each new topic is introduced, you are immediately taught how to do that thing through *real* gameplay.

For example: The immediate start of the game, you create your character. Screen fades to black, and fades into a very short (like 5-10 seconds) elevator ride up to the main level of HOME. During that ride, you have a text popup for moving the camera around, using either the mouse or a controller analog stick. Elevator doors open, text popup is replaced by WASD/other analog stick. You move a couple feet out of the elevator, a quest pops up to talk to an NPC, with whatever navigation system the game wants to use to guide you there. When you reach the NPC, the text popup shows the talk/interact key/button. You get the next quest step that sends you to a quartermaster NPC, who gives you a basic light frame and weapons. Text popups appear to have you open the inventory, and tell you how to equip the new gear. Quest updates again and send you on your first mission to the planet, with navigation guiding you to your dropship. You land, get guided a short distance away, and drop a personal thumper. Warnings popup about incoming enemies, then text popups give you the controls for your weapons so you can fight. So on and so on.

It's still a tutorial, but it's active, and it actually has bearing on the game.

In addition, while I could be wrong, this seems like a game where you won't may not need to make alt characters. Having to go through an active tutorial phase a single time isn't really that bad. Even in games that have really bad tutorials, someone who wants to play the game can *usually* power through it once. The bigger issues arise when you need to make alts, and do that over, and over, and over again for each one. If you don't have to make alts for anything, then there's no reason to do the tutorial multiple times, so a lot of those issues just disappear.

You could definitely do more advanced topics as videos or whatnot, but the game itself definitely needs to have it.
 
Nov 2, 2020
16
46
13
#64
I'm not sure how to put this, but the player housing feels a bit . . . disconnected(?) from the spirit of the rest of the game - especially when you can look at a complete topographical map of the entire planet and just pick a spot.

The way I understood it, we would all be starting at more or less the same place; a regional forward base on the planet's surface from which everyone fights to take more land. There would be multiple fronts and maybe some isolated pockets as the frontline shifts, but overall it's one big expanding/contracting zone which players need to defend (Basically Planetside 2, but you start with just a warpgate and an entire planet of enemy territory).

The player housing system makes the war in that main bubble feel kind of pointless. Why expend all those resources fighting back giant kaiju and an army of aliens when I could just warp to the perfect spot and defend it by myself?

What if instead of having a complete picture of the planet to begin with, players gradually reveal the map by taking territory (essentially just fog of war). Couple that with only being able settle on land which has already been taken and secured, and you'd give everyone more incentive to defend existing territory and reclaim lost ground.

That comes with the obvious downside of potentially losing your base indefinitely, since you have to rely on other players to push back into the land you built on. Maybe you could make the base still accessible while isolated in the fog of war, but in a low-power, low-output state while you're cut off from the supply chain. The base could have to be repaired and defended more often as it's in enemy territory.

Abandoned bases might become an issue, although I think the periodic raids more or less solve that. Without somewhat active upkeep, a derelict base could eventually be destroyed to free up the plot for someone else.

With limited territory, there's also the problem of not having enough space for everyone to build, which could potentially lead to some unpleasant infighting over who gets to build and who doesn't. Not sure if there's a good way to mitigate that.

All that being said, most of us are here for Firefall vibes, Planetside-style persistent warfare, mechs, and giant freaking monsters. Whatever it ends up being, the entire housing system should be a post-launch feature.
 
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EinzelWolf

Firstclaimer
Ark Liege
Jan 27, 2017
2
4
3
#65
Hmmmm well this one is going to be fun to put on paper....... well here goes nothing.

Honestly i think claimstakes being what you're limited to planetside as a survival/builder is frankly gonna lose a number of new players and FF vets. If peps want to get a survival/builder they are cheaper by the dozen now days..... you need to bring something more to it than just. Spawn in make everything and roam free to mine and craft.... There needs to be a open area much like the old copa that you had the ability to story tell and work players into the idea of thumping, crafting and to go out and have fun. Claimstakes would heavy hamper that.

Now could claimstakes be a fun sudo endgame or high reward idea? Ya make it a expedition to get rare/exotic resources that you are dropped in and you need to make a little outpost and explore/defend for these said resources or even mass amount of mid to lower stuff if the expedition was set to that. The longer you last vs ever growing waves or bigger kaiju could make for a fun gameplay loop with your own base that shouldn't take much to set up(prefabs but could have a ADV mode for the full on base builders?). This could even be made to setup big boss encounters that you need to make a base and a lure of some kind to draw in say the big cat 5-6s and have xyz resource tied to that. Matchmaking could used to help make sure these have players going out and doing them so its not a... oh hey what are you guys going for? oh that? naw ima dip and leave scenarios.

Now you could also still include base building in the open world that you start in. it could be much like the meld in FF where you push it back. You could have bases that could get built up to keep the meld from closing back in and you have to defend it. These could be quite like planetside 2s player bases that are fairly quick to set up and would give new players a small start on how that system works before the expeditions start to open up to them. Here you could introduce progressively bigger kaiju to attack the bases too. starting with low cat 1-2s and as you push back more 3s and 4s will start to show up and the players on the that instance would need to band together to fight and hold the line. This could be a area to introduce mid level mats that will help you get geared for the expeditions.

Hopefully this all made sense but will be more than willing to expand on topics as wanted.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,035
9,497
113
Island of Tofu
#66
What if the tutorials were videos (Starship troopers want to learn more type thing) that were both on YouTube and accessible via the game's help menu? Players could do the tutorial during the non-game time OR in game at HOMEbase!
The trick is - and this seems to be what Grummz wants - is to have an ACTIVE tutorial: you learn the game as you play, and as each new topic is introduced, you are immediately taught how to do that thing through *real* gameplay.
It is good to have something to compare and refresh even for advance skills.

A tutorial that is active is surely a good way to make it less boring and flow right to the fun stuff.

What if the game had a critical mass measure, visible to everyone in HOMEbase or even in their HUD, that was influenced by whatever players did? The more people thump, extract, build, process, craft, hunt, kill, expand and uncover, the higher the critical mass becomes, until BOOM! GODZILLA! or something far more monstrous... but you get my drift right? Everything the players do in the game, no matter what they like doing, pushes that measure closer to an enemy retaliation! You could have it per sector, potentially triggering massive attacks at multiple locations at once, forcing the community to decide "where do we prioritize? What is most valuable to defend? What are we willing to sacrifice? What are we willing to lose
If a majority of players began to progress a lot in what they do this could effect them all simultaneously?

Could the A.I Director factor in other ways to cause issues such as weather, anomalies, natural disasters, pirates, etc etc than just kaijus or tsihu for that unpredictable outcome?

Players should earn their claims, starting with a practice claim, then a small one, larger, and then whatever comes next. Don't make it mandatory, but make it appealing. Make them want it, and if it's not their playstyle, then fine, maybe it will be later on... let them choose to skip it at first and review it later.
What would be the advantages of a claim stake and just joining someone elses?

I can list some imagining that the claimstake would:
- Give more freedom of choice in creating your own kind of area for yourself or a group.
- Storage is bigger to store collections of resources and showcase skin collection through a holographic wardrobe to show others etc.
- Doodle board and bored you can doodle and link to other claimstakers who have this board and can share ideas or doodling poop leading to interesting plans hmm
- Personal satisfaction of your own or group created home
- Building may not just be a home could be an advanced medical center or a Mek racer tuning station.
What if are roles could influence the building we may have such as an engineer could create specialized Repair and diagnostic facility like a drive through car wash!
-

What if instead of having a complete picture of the planet to begin with, players gradually reveal the map by taking territory (essentially just fog of war). Couple that with only being able settle on land which has already been taken and secured, and you'd give everyone more incentive to defend existing territory and reclaim lost ground.
Perhaps claimstakes are good to help each other after all think of the network and would they all be on ground. If some could advanced to using some gravity system that floated in the sky not as high as the main sky bases though.

Would the floating homes be targeted differently with more use of grappler tsihu's or flying type enemies etc?

That comes with the obvious downside of potentially losing your base indefinitely, since you have to rely on other players to push back into the land you built on. Maybe you could make the base still accessible while isolated in the fog of war, but in a low-power, low-output state while you're cut off from the supply chain. The base could have to be repaired and defended more often as it's in enemy territory.

Abandoned bases might become an issue, although I think the periodic raids more or less solve that. Without somewhat active upkeep, a derelict base could eventually be destroyed to free up the plot for someone else.
With the claimstake how close are we able to have other claimstakes i ask this because if its close enough this would make it easier to help out other claimstakers. Otherwise too far and alert could be seen and heard in the claimstake network.

When an alert goes off every Reaper owning a claimstake knows it could be anyone's home in danger. Consider it like a neighbourhood watch with a burglar alarm, fire alarm, etc and its that dread you get that if nothing gets done soon enough it will be taken over by some scumbug or even used as a dump yard :O


There needs to be a open area much like the old copa that you had the ability to story tell and work players into the idea of thumping, crafting and to go out and have fun.
This could even be made to setup big boss encounters that you need to make a base and a lure of some kind to draw in say the big cat 5-6s and have xyz resource tied to that. Matchmaking could used to help make sure these have players going out and doing them so its not a... oh hey what are you guys going for? oh that? naw ima dip and leave scenarios.
The open areas is the true areas to see what is going on and introducing claim stake too early on would be odd. As an example player would need to earn the right to make the claimstake to make it appealing than just something that can easily be obtained.

Perhaps after some progression or when the big cheese Sky tower reaper calls you and says " you have done great and for all your dedication and hard work Reaper council presents you to a claimstake region of your choice. Be aware that you take full responsibility for this area or alternatively you can decide to support your other Reapers in their Claimstake"

Choices:
1) Take the claimstake
2) Help an already existing claimstake
3) Respectfully refuse, collect some credits and continue on your journey.

That could lead to more advanced kind of homes leading to higher threat levels than a basic home.

I would think that everyones home and the main bases are interlinked because more that is effected more it will affect all of us in some way. So even if the personal homes may not be our home they can affect as by the reduced support we may have in one area take for example

A home well placed between the main destination of our space truck could help our mission. If the home was taken over or wiped out it could make our objectives more tougher and could lead to a dangerous path.
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Ark Liege
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
46
122
33
#67
A very interesting Chief Chat, which has sparked a LOT of discussion. I have to respect the fact that this idea is very early days, so I can only really give feedback in broad brushstrokes. Naturally, I have a lot of questions, but I’ll begin by giving feedback on what we know.

CLAIM STAKES AND STUFF
So I’ve grabbed some of the statements where I considered the CC to start off, which I feel are important to address;

“What is very important to Em8er, that Firefall didn't get quite right, was the sense of progression. In Firefall there wasn't a lot of loot to chase and there wasn't a lot of crafting to unlock.”
I actually thought there was a decent amount of loot in Firefall, but that's not to say that there couldn't have been a lot more! In regards to crafting, there could have been a much richer system.

“And the crafting all took place in UI widows. What we are doing, is moving to a much more physically based world.”
This statement confused me a bit, because how else would you design a crafting system WITHOUT utilizing UI windows? What does a more physically based world look like with your new interpretation of a crafting system?

“What you are seeing right now, is going to be surrounded by our version of a melding bubble. In Em8er, that is going to be known as a terraforming wall. And the Gatestriders will unlock more and more of these terraformed pockets across the world.”
Awesome throwback to FF, I think walls like this do a great job at keeping people where they should be in the world. I can’t wait to hear more about these Terraforming Walls and how exactly they will work. Or what happens when a Kai-ju busts through one?

“The game expands beyond the Terraforming Wall, and if you happen to have a dropship, you can fly through that wall and explore the rest of this planet. A planet so big, that it will probably be a 10th of the size of Earth. Thanks to unreal engine 5.”
This concept sounds incredible, It almost sounds too good to be true! I’m not trying to be too skeptical here, but I’d like to know how much of that giant planet will be worth exploring. Because it’s all well and good having all that landscape, but if we’re not doing anything with it then what is the real purpose of it?

Surely compared to the hand-crafted areas, the procedurally generated terrain which exists between the handcrafted and claim-staked pockets will be pretty bland. What is the value of having this gigantic mass of land? Otherwise, I'm a big fan of the idea of progressive zones which could feature different content, I like the idea of horizons that are ever-expanding. It gave Firefall a sense of progression, so if we can trump that in Em8er... the progression will feel out of this world!

"Minecraft, Blocks, Terraforming Tools, Shaping Certain Areas, Player Built bases... etc."
How reliant are players going to be on these bases, and how important are these structures going to be to the player's success? If tedious construction is required, how are we going to be able to expect the players to know how to build these bases efficiently? And how're we going to prevent griefers from ruining that experience for everybody else?

I imagined the construction in Em8er to be prebuilt fabrication, blueprints you could plonk down and fund with material runs. Which would eventually be erected with the contributions of the Gatestriders, working together as a team.

I would NOT have imagined the construction to be something comparable to Minecraft, Rust, Fallout 76. Perhaps the Player Home Areas at the very most? But definitely not on the handcrafted zones.

"You will begin in the game as a brand new GateStrider! And your journey will start on H.O.M.E, the giant space station above Ember. One of the first things you will do is claim a stake in the world of Ember."
I like the idea of starting the game on the space-station "H.O.M.E", I don't mind the concept of giving the players their own small patch of land to build on. But I don't agree that claim stakes should be one of the first things that players are introduced to. I feel as though it would not make sense in the lore for a Gatestrider to claim a small patch of land so early into their career, randomly in the world.

I feel as though that should be something that is earnt through progression as a serving Gatestrider. You've spent time on Ember as a serving Gatestrider... and now you have the opportunity to explore the claim-staking system, as a reward for your efforts. I'm still foggy-minded on what exactly a player-base is supposed to be, does it have a specific purpose... or is it supposed to be land that has a lot of potentials depending on what you want to do with it?

It sounds as though you're going for a Fallout76 style of base building, where you place down a camp on the world and then use resources to build crafting benches that serve different purposes.

I was actually a big fan of the main-hubs in Firefall, which drew players to crafting areas that were pre-built. I'd always bump into new players at these locations, no matter where I was on the map. And chat about crafting or trade. I wonder if the player bases will isolate players inside of a game that's supposed to orientate around the community/group ideology. And the isolation may be even more prominent if those player-bases are invaded, drawing attention away from the main war-zones.

TL;DR -
Handcrafted Zones - RTS style, plonk down prefabricated unit type architecture. GOOD, should have more attention drawn to in comparison to the player zones.
Player Zones - I'm not too bothered, just don't force me to go there. I'd rather do stuff that helps the war effort.

"Gated crafting system... stepping through portals and hunting Kai-ju."
I like the concept of revolving crafting around taking down Kai-ju, or obtaining special ingredients and items to unlock the next crafting gate. That sounds cool! And what better way to do that, than to bring the fight to them with my fellow Gatestriders.


CONCLUSION;
I agree and disagree on different parts of this CC, I also have a bunch of questions. But again, early days... so it'll be interesting to see where these concepts go from here. And all in all, I am optimistic! :D
 
Feb 10, 2020
12
12
3
#68
This statement confused me a bit, because how else would you design a crafting system WITHOUT utilizing UI windows? What does a more physically based world look like with your new interpretation of a crafting system?
Physicalized crafting takes form in many ways, and will vary based on how granular the devs want to cut it. Menus may still be involved so you can craft what you want out of multiple valid options, but the intent is you go to a workbench based on what you want to do.

Basically, i need an ingot. So I take ore to a furnace and slap them in.
They spend some time cooking, then you pull the ingots from the furnace.
Then put it in your printer and it makes a gun receiver.
Then you take all the other parts and put them in an assembler to get a finished gun.

This concept sounds incredible, It almost sounds too good to be true! I’m not trying to be too skeptical here, but I’d like to know how much of that giant planet will be worth exploring.
Hence the claimstakes. Not every inch of any world is going to be worth exploring. The dead spots are what the claimstakes take up. The rare-mineral poor areas of the world where you can only find the basics. The war and multiplayer areas take place where nodes of rarer stuff appear from what I can gather. This way they empty area is broken up by shacks and hamlets... towns and cities...Or Bob's Bang-Bang Bonanza (20% Off Autocannons for one day only!).

imagined the construction in Em8er to be prebuilt fabrication, blueprints you could plonk down and fund with material runs.
I'm fairly certain he mentioned that base buildings were going to be pre-fab. What this individual system does for them is it lets them construct one out of basic parts, fill it with specialized parts, and then save it as a prefab that they can then distribute to everyone as part of the multiplayer base building portion of the game. So the individualized building can support the larger group portion of the game.

I'd imagine building a Radar building goes something like... using a special developer creative mode, they plop down a basic frame using the building system, and add some player interactables, then add some decor... Finally, have a radar that sits on top.. Then they save the thing. That gets added to the menu for selecting the RTS-Style base buildings and you just plop down a copy on the land-scape.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,035
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113
Island of Tofu
#69
I wonder if the player bases will isolate players inside of a game that's supposed to orientate around the community/group ideology. And the isolation may be even more prominent if those player-bases are invaded, drawing attention away from the main war-zones.
Would that depend on the player if everyone is helping each other out i'd think they would be curious to visit and help?

I am certainly interested to see what other players could create will it be as oddly made as mine?
If they have a racing track i may get my upgraded vroom vroom and get some races hmm
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT
Feb 10, 2020
12
12
3
#70
I wonder if the player bases will isolate players inside of a game that's supposed to orientate around the community/group ideology. And the isolation may be even more prominent if those player-bases are invaded, drawing attention away from the main war-zones.
Would that depend on the player if everyone is helping each other out i'd think they would be curious to visit and help?

I am certainly interested to see what other players could create will it be as oddly made as mine?
If they have a racing track i may get my upgraded vroom vroom and get some races hmm
I don't understand your concern about this, Chazz.

A large number of people seem like they believe that if you are going to be playing Em8er, you need to be 100% in the war zones and that's it. Not everyone is going to be all grind all the time. You need to bake in periods and activities where someone can disengage and do other things. If the game doesn't support that, people might just close out the game and play something else so they can wind down and then forget to log back into Em8er when they feel like fighting something again.

If the only thing Em8er supports is shooty-shooty, then thats the only thing itll be used it for. When you get bored/tired of that, welp...

If you're at your house, you aren't really hunting at the moment. You're engaging with the house-centric systems, such as crafting or building, which helps the war by improving yourself or others, or closer-knit socializing. The claims are only going to have basic resources so there isn't the impetus to stay there forever. You're going to have to get out to the main world to progress in any meaningful way.

One of my most memorable moments from another game, New World, was when me and my friends weren't actually fighting seriously in any way. We took off all our gear and were naked fist-fighting or captain-morgan posing in front of an enemy faction's front gates because we had just come off a multi-hour grind session and were bored. It ended up starting a war that we took no part in and we just sat there and laughed and engaged with others. If the game doesn't allow me to wind-down and recuperate within its confines, I might just close out the game and play something else because the only thing it supports IS the high-octane fighting.

When you are having player bases invaded, you do not have them under constant attack. I'd really suggest maybe you get attacked randomly once or maybe twice throughout an entire day with maybe a weekly mega-invasion and you can kick either off yourself.

Having to babysit a base is frustrating, but getting a little encounter to yourself or just your buddies might reinvigorate people. You reward them for caring for their base and give them a reminder to get out into the wider world. It's a balancing act; and you can keep difficulty and the rewards to their tech level. So they only gain resources they've already gotten, but nothing that will kick them up to the next tech level.
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Ark Liege
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
46
122
33
#71
Physicalized crafting takes form in many ways, and will vary based on how granular the devs want to cut it. Menus may still be involved so you can craft what you want out of multiple valid options, but the intent is you go to a workbench based on what you want to do.

Basically, i need an ingot. So I take ore to a furnace and slap them in.
They spend some time cooking, then you pull the ingots from the furnace.
Then put it in your printer and it makes a gun receiver.
Then you take all the other parts and put them in an assembler to get a finished gun.
Okay, isn't this essentially how it worked in Firefall though? You went to the big crafting machine with your raw materials, and then you turned those materials into stuff. I want to know how this new so-called Physicalised-Crafting system will compare to Firefalls.


Hence the claimstakes. Not every inch of any world is going to be worth exploring. The dead spots are what the claimstakes take up. The rare-mineral poor areas of the world where you can only find the basics. The war and multiplayer areas take place where nodes of rarer stuff appear from what I can gather. This way the empty area is broken up by shacks and hamlets... towns and cities...Or Bob's Bang-Bang Bonanza (20% Off Autocannons for one day only!).
I have trouble envisioning how it'll look, in my mind, I imagine this vast expanse of an empty landscape that serves no purpose. And then, every now and then you come across a random player claim-stake before passing on by into the vast expanse of the empty landscape again. I imagine 60% of those claim stakes to be private, so you won't be able to enter them anyway.


I'm fairly certain he mentioned that base buildings were going to be pre-fab. What this individual system does for them is it lets them construct one out of basic parts, fill it with specialized parts, and then save it as a prefab that they can then distribute to everyone as part of the multiplayer base building portion of the game. So the individualized building can support the larger group portion of the game.

I'd imagine building a Radar building goes something like... using a special developer creative mode, they plop down a basic frame using the building system, and add some player interactables, then add some decor... Finally, have a radar that sits on top.. Then they save the thing. That gets added to the menu for selecting the RTS-Style base buildings and you just plop down a copy on the land-scape.
This sounds pretty cool to me, it'll be interesting to see the next rendition of the RTS style base building.
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Ark Liege
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
46
122
33
#72
I don't understand your concern about this, Chazz.

A large number of people seem like they believe that if you are going to be playing Em8er, you need to be 100% in the war zones and that's it. Not everyone is going to be all grind all the time. You need to bake in periods and activities where someone can disengage and do other things. If the game doesn't support that, people might just close out the game and play something else so they can wind down and then forget to log back into Em8er when they feel like fighting something again.

If the only thing Em8er supports is shooty-shooty, then thats the only thing itll be used it for. When you get bored/tired of that, welp...

If you're at your house, you aren't really hunting at the moment. You're engaging with the house-centric systems, such as crafting or building, which helps the war by improving yourself or others, or closer-knit socializing. The claims are only going to have basic resources so there isn't the impetus to stay there forever. You're going to have to get out to the main world to progress in any meaningful way.

One of my most memorable moments from another game, New World, was when me and my friends weren't actually fighting seriously in any way. We took off all our gear and were naked fist-fighting or captain-morgan posing in front of an enemy faction's front gates because we had just come off a multi-hour grind session and were bored. It ended up starting a war that we took no part in and we just sat there and laughed and engaged with others. If the game doesn't allow me to wind-down and recuperate within its confines, I might just close out the game and play something else because the only thing it supports IS the high-octane fighting.

When you are having player bases invaded, you do not have them under constant attack. I'd really suggest maybe you get attacked randomly once or maybe twice throughout an entire day with maybe a weekly mega-invasion and you can kick either off yourself.

Having to babysit a base is frustrating, but getting a little encounter to yourself or just your buddies might reinvigorate people. You reward them for caring for their base and give them a reminder to get out into the wider world. It's a balancing act; and you can keep difficulty and the rewards to their tech level. So they only gain resources they've already gotten, but nothing that will kick them up to the next tech level.
This is a very good point! I never actually considered having a come-down aspect to the game. When I used to play Firefall, the gameplay was so nice and smooth that I actually found it calming in a way. I'd go help out lower-level players in Copa or I'd just go randomly explore the map by myself. Perhaps isolation isn't a concern then? Thanks for the feedback Jake! :D
 
Feb 10, 2020
12
12
3
#73
Okay, isn't this essentially how it worked in Firefall though? You went to the big crafting machine with your raw materials, and then you turned those materials into stuff. I want to know how this new so-called Physicalised-Crafting system will compare to Firefalls.
I had to lookup a youtube video to get an idea, but.. The FF system is still menu based and you went to one molecular printer to do all things. You just throw in whatever resources and get whatever out.

The easiest cop-out to explaining this is one of those Blacksmith games. My Little Blacksmith Shop or Master Bladesmith. It'd probably be easier to look up gameplay for one of those if you are a visual person. I don't think they are going to go that far, though.

Depending on the granularity they are wanting, you could have a system set up where there are multiple physical machines representing a step or steps in the process from raw to finished. We're just going to have to wait for a crafting CC and demo for answers on their particular system.

You can easily Physicalize Smelting Ingots for example. Especially in a high tech game.

Imagine a Space Smelter.
You've got fancy little buttons you can interact with and it shows you a hologram or a screen of all the ingots you can produce. You can flip through using the buttons to see pictures of all the ingots you can make and find Iron Ingots..
A hopper opens and you can feed in Iron ore and it'll close and then do an animation with a little timer and eventually have a pile of ingots that you can retrieve.

Technically the screen and buttons are a menu yes.. But they have a physical presence.
Its not JUST you hitting C or a Machine to open a crafting menu and you telling it you want 50 Iron Ingots.
 
Likes: Pandagnome

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,035
9,497
113
Island of Tofu
#74
getting a little encounter to yourself or just your buddies might reinvigorate people. You reward them for caring for their base and give them a reminder to get out into the wider world. It's a balancing act; and you can keep difficulty and the rewards to their tech level. So they only gain resources they've already gotten, but nothing that will kick them up to the next tech level.
That's right to find the right balance still have the pew pew pow pow and have the other nice things to compliment all the fun.
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT
Feb 16, 2017
7
8
3
#75
I rarely ever comment but I kinda agree with a few comments I have seen. If we are heading towards a more survival or build your base kind of game... I will probably look somewhere else for something to play. You were going in such a grand and fantastic design and I was hyped beyond anything, but this chief chat has me questioning my interest. I won't write it off yet because I am still very hopeful for something to surprise me and this community is one of the best. Just going to sit back and hope for the best.
 
Dec 10, 2018
1
0
1
Alaska, USA
#76
So many people share my views but I thought of a few specifics regarding different or parallel systems/ gameplay loops.
Firstly, I come from the FF beta crowd and mainly played to shoot critters and explore. I play many MMOs and RPGs but focus mostly on games that I can co-op with my partner.
I don't mind crafting in games but I prefer it secondary or optional to the main loop. Same with housing or base building.
Whether Em.8er has these or not I feel it should be made abundantly clear from the beginning the importance of those systems. For instance if crafting is necessary to get gear or progress then the player needs to know from lvl 1 that 'hey you shouldn't ignore this until later'. Same with a base, if that is going to be our primary place to craft equipment or utilize certain functions that are fairly critical to end game type play we should be told in the tutorials somewhere. There is nothing worse than sinking a lot of time into playing and then finding out you should have been working on 'parallel system A' from day 1. If the best gear comes only from crafting say so. If we can skip it and get drops that equal crafted items say so. At least players will then be able to decide if they want to ( or need to) invest in the other gameplay loops.
 
Nov 25, 2018
3
4
3
#77
I'm of two minds about this and claim-stakes. One of them is selfish.
I'm really going to engage with this game if I can become invested in out of combat activities and strategic effects they could have on the action part of the game.

I generally love the idea of player managed infrastructure: Its a hook but it also should fulfill design goals.
It needs to assist players (any) in their progression.
It also could influence the wrinkles of the user's combat, or nearby combat (auras)(depending on the improvement).
They shouldn't be too beneficial to build, pushing player types that don't care. While still supporting and rewarding players who want to invest and manage those elements for themselves and their player groups. Altruism and tagging for fame is also a thing.

This is where carefully designing the costs and restrictions of whats done on these claims is important.
You want people to engage with the system, but not be toxic because real estate is a finite resource. Since player activity pushes out the boarders and makes more build able space, that problem could moderate itself.

You might be tempted to restrict the number of buildings a player can do but that might encourage alt-ing, or encourage a lot of tear-down/rebuild (which could be part of the solution because it makes room in the initial zones.) Maybe a maintenance cost in a trade-able resource? Or a scaling cost for account-build-slots but the construction/deconstruction costs are more trivial?

The primary point of this post is to say I am on board with player ownership/construction/buy-in. While the game is action focused, there should be prep/planing/investment and appreciating the world (even if it is just riding and driving convoys from your infrastructure to your/Your friends combat area.)

Separate thought: Roads. They need to be built, maintained, and guarded but not necessarily owned as a claim-stake. Combat events and rewards can be designed around them and how important they are could be dynamically determined by the type of infrastructure on each end of the road.
 
Likes: Sy

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
297
570
93
sya.li
#78
Separate thought: Roads. They need to be built, maintained, and guarded but not necessarily owned as a claim-stake. Combat events and rewards can be designed around them and how important they are could be dynamically determined by the type of infrastructure on each end of the road.
Some sort of road meta game might pair really well with the "space trucking" concept that's been talked about.
 
Mar 11, 2017
29
94
13
29
#79
Sooo little late to the party but heres my feedback about the chief chat...as has been stated it feels like the game is going in a slightly different direction from what was in firefall as of this chief chats info that I know. The crafting sounds like Fallout 76 and and its starting to sound like there's a going to be a lot of survival aspects of the game that weren't necessarily there in firefall (ff). Such as ff had unlimited storage capacity I could endlessly thump but I do understand it sounds like that will be limited. In this case then that sounds like there will be added weight into the game which will then have to be balanced with everything else along with gliding and jump jetting which will be an additional hassle to any who don't like to micro manage there own inventory. Additionally I can foresee a lot of issues possibly popping up with the player claim stakes if there's player trading because of all of the issues fallout 76 had such as duplication of items, theft of items, and griefing. I'm not sure how any of that would be countered but know that it is all possible to happen. Also if you still have to run around picking up all of the resources during a thumping encounter on top of defending things, on top of possibly running out of inventory and having to resource manage in the middle of an encounter to get a rare resource that may have randomly popped up that you need but cant hold because your out of storage. You say then bring a larger storage unit for resources but if your defending a space truck and a thumper and running in between the two dropping of resources from the thumping in the space truck and then running back to pick more up this seems like a huge undertaking that will take like 20 players minimum which when things were slow in ff you'd sometimes be lucky to find even 5 players roaming around your area but to consistently need 20 plus players is going to force some people who are more used to participating from solo but still being solo to join a squad or army or guild whatever they end up being called. But I myself am often not interested in guilds and such because normally there's a cap to players so once you have so many that's all you can have and then well what if they all stop playing or life comes up and changes our schedules now we don't play the same times so can't do the big events anymore the entire group falls apart and if you don't have people managing activity or how often people play then you eventually of a filled up dead guild and have to start over from scratch or hope your in a high enough guild position to wipe the dead guild and start fresh with your old guild structure. There's starting to be a lot of elements that sound really good for certain aspects like the frontline war or for thumping in groups and exploration that may not be viable or smart to have in the more personal setting or that shouldn't be forced into the game. Such as I don't really like the sound of playing base defense all the time when I could be out exploring the world and thumping with a small group of friends or gliding around and happening on a tier 4 or higher kaiju and trying to solo it by myself that kinda thing would be awesome. But the portals to certain kaiju sounds like a raid and what happened to the overseeing dungeon master ai that would propagate those things into the general player world were everyone contributes and does there own thing. It sounds like the focus is being heavily shifted to solo game for first two weeks then try to go swim in the main online game and if you don't like it come back to your personal little bubble. at this point I may be ranting but it feels like the game is transitioning from this glorious game idea almost sadly to say to a massive video game stir fry with mech and guns?

However, there are some really nice things to take away from it that we will have our own individual planet home areas we can customize instead of paid for with image currency player housing and that there will be a home space station we can maybe go hang out at and that also we will finally be using the drop ships to fly from space to space in a function and awesome manner. But the flying a drop ship may have consequences similar to some that can be found in GTA V of flying plains into the ground we shall see. But overall I just wanna say I do like the progress of the game but that I hope it can swing back around more towards the vision book a was mention by @PartTimeJedi and maybe dial a little back on trying to be the biggest baddest of everything and just be the best of its niche that tons of people will still really enjoy and love to play. There's plenty of potential for all kinds of things but what is really the heart and core of what you were originally chasing Grummz? was it the current plan you laid out in the chief chat or is it different this is your baby after all, I and many others signed a very greatly worded petition many years ago to have you bring to fruition and I'm going to back it all the way been invested for a little over 6 years now its too late to turn back for me I want to see the gem you create no matter what it looks like but I want it to be the dream game you started chasing not a game that you gave into making because it was awesome to the many and that's what brought in the money to make it.

Good luck to you and the rest of the team and everyone who works in Em-8er in the future I'm glad the games come as far as it has and hope to see you all at the finish line when it's finally released! Keep up the great work!

Edit: posting this from my main account realized i was logged into the forums on my alt account...