I like boss fights that put skill or at least good teamwork to the test.
For the boss itself i like multiple stages, when it gets to x amount of HP it does a different move that is of of his pattern. I like it in Black desert online how everyone gets a reward of somekind making it always worth your time.
I also perfer boss fights that require multiple support classes to complete with a variety of other classes. Like tanks that agro, bruisers supporting tanks, rangers dealing Dps, enchanter giving buffs to the group that actually has a large affect in offence, defence and passives, healer for healing and revives, etc. i like it like this more common way because some games including Firefall turned out being a Dps festival, I like the inclusion not exclusion of classes making all players feel welcome to enjoy playing a roll rather than Dps or kick lol. Also, self accomplishment on almost impossible bosses with genuine good rewards is the best.
For the boss itself i like multiple stages, when it gets to x amount of HP it does a different move that is of of his pattern. I like it in Black desert online how everyone gets a reward of somekind making it always worth your time.
I also perfer boss fights that require multiple support classes to complete with a variety of other classes. Like tanks that agro, bruisers supporting tanks, rangers dealing Dps, enchanter giving buffs to the group that actually has a large affect in offence, defence and passives, healer for healing and revives, etc. i like it like this more common way because some games including Firefall turned out being a Dps festival, I like the inclusion not exclusion of classes making all players feel welcome to enjoy playing a roll rather than Dps or kick lol. Also, self accomplishment on almost impossible bosses with genuine good rewards is the best.
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Likes:
13umbleBee
Just a quick thought but are the boss' to scale according to those fighting it? I mean will they have a base difficulty in case it is being fought by a solo player but its difficulty scales according to how many people are fighting it and how advanced they are?
Likes:
13umbleBee and ApisLove
What if when there are multiple players, there is somehow multiple beasts to fend off.
This might help when so many people are involved that the boss made tougher is just unrealistic.
This might help when so many people are involved that the boss made tougher is just unrealistic.
Likes:
eRuss and NitroMidgets
@ObsoleteVodka AI coding is like on of the most difficult things to do. It's hard to get right, and it takes extra resources. If sever will try to analyze what is been done by like ever-changing 50 players around the boss, to make a decision, it might strain the system just a little too much to be functional.
But then again I don't know full capabilities of UE4 and modern servers, perhaps they can come up with something interesting later in the development.
But then again I don't know full capabilities of UE4 and modern servers, perhaps they can come up with something interesting later in the development.
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I dont mind a bullet sponge as long as its done right, before I left FF Bane could be killed in 12 seconds. A world boss. On farm mode. made me sad to see that. So i'd like bosses that can take a hit and dish it out. mechanics that I have to watch out for. But not something that is going to oneshot me. Sure give it an ultimate attack that can kill instantly but dont have your boss sit there and spam it right. Also I like bosses that show signs of damage. wounds, etc, in games far to often people will say something is wounded or hurt but the game npc looks no different than when combat started.
If done right the idea for bullet sponge bosses can be both hard and skill based as well as really fun and rewarding, the key is using the right kind of boss in the right kind of setting that would make sense.
Here is an idea for a good type of bullet sponge boss. A giant slow moving blob monster that is making its way across the landscape, crushing and absorbing everything in its path. Your job is to protect a key base location from being crushed and absorbed by the blob. Note, that the job is to protect the area, not to kill the boss. This because the boss is not evil nor is it really targeting the base. It just happens that the blob is looking for a new home because its old one is being destroyed or has been destroyed for some reason, and the base just happens to be in its path as flees the area and looks for a safe place to live. The blob itself is not one giant being, but rather a kind of hive mind made of countless smaller beings acting towards a common goal of survival, kind of like bees or ants if they moved like a flock of starlings in a protective membrane. So your goal is just to survive as long as possible until the blob passes through the area while keeping the base from being damaged and/or absorbed by the blob.
Lol, it can be a bullet sponge boss that is literally like a giant sponge (sponge as in the like a sea sponge). Because some of the things that a lot of people think of as being one lifeform are really just many smaller lifeforms living and working as a group.
Here is an idea for a good type of bullet sponge boss. A giant slow moving blob monster that is making its way across the landscape, crushing and absorbing everything in its path. Your job is to protect a key base location from being crushed and absorbed by the blob. Note, that the job is to protect the area, not to kill the boss. This because the boss is not evil nor is it really targeting the base. It just happens that the blob is looking for a new home because its old one is being destroyed or has been destroyed for some reason, and the base just happens to be in its path as flees the area and looks for a safe place to live. The blob itself is not one giant being, but rather a kind of hive mind made of countless smaller beings acting towards a common goal of survival, kind of like bees or ants if they moved like a flock of starlings in a protective membrane. So your goal is just to survive as long as possible until the blob passes through the area while keeping the base from being damaged and/or absorbed by the blob.
Lol, it can be a bullet sponge boss that is literally like a giant sponge (sponge as in the like a sea sponge). Because some of the things that a lot of people think of as being one lifeform are really just many smaller lifeforms living and working as a group.
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Likes:
Luisedgm and Daevic
I think Silv3r said it best.
Some of my most enjoyable memories in WoW were of pulling through raids where we were (according to google) just undergeared but through good teamwork. e.g Eg... Tank (me) makes a bad move, gets splat by the boss, the DPS kitty druid blows a CD to temp tank the raid boss with the hybrid support classes adding more heals to the kitty bear while the healers battle rez the my sorry ass. something like that, where the entire raid will be screaming when you finally down the boss.
Weak points on bosses are good. As it will reward good aim.
Avoidable damage is good. As it will reward good situational awareness and coordinated movements to dodge. Closest example I can think off is the telegraphed boss attacks in WildStar. Which tells you to get out or get fried.
And..for good measure, combined effects , like in guildwars 2.. where if you get an Elementalist to drop flames on the ground and get a Ranger to do a scattered shot through the flame curtain, you get bonus dmg as a result of flamed arrows...a dps boost if you are coordinated enough. Synergy between different frames and abilities.
(heh heh..reminds of Raptor's Powerfield and the charge rifle and the overload perk ).. hahaha...ah... good times.
i.e if you can shoot and dance real well, you can prioritize power allocation to weapon output and movement as opposed to shielding. Like risk vs reward trade off.
Just my 2 cents.
13B
Some of my most enjoyable memories in WoW were of pulling through raids where we were (according to google) just undergeared but through good teamwork. e.g Eg... Tank (me) makes a bad move, gets splat by the boss, the DPS kitty druid blows a CD to temp tank the raid boss with the hybrid support classes adding more heals to the kitty bear while the healers battle rez the my sorry ass. something like that, where the entire raid will be screaming when you finally down the boss.
Weak points on bosses are good. As it will reward good aim.
Avoidable damage is good. As it will reward good situational awareness and coordinated movements to dodge. Closest example I can think off is the telegraphed boss attacks in WildStar. Which tells you to get out or get fried.
And..for good measure, combined effects , like in guildwars 2.. where if you get an Elementalist to drop flames on the ground and get a Ranger to do a scattered shot through the flame curtain, you get bonus dmg as a result of flamed arrows...a dps boost if you are coordinated enough. Synergy between different frames and abilities.
(heh heh..reminds of Raptor's Powerfield and the charge rifle and the overload perk ).. hahaha...ah... good times.
i.e if you can shoot and dance real well, you can prioritize power allocation to weapon output and movement as opposed to shielding. Like risk vs reward trade off.
Just my 2 cents.
13B
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what if the devs could take control of the bosses at any random time?
Then players would actually have to deal with a enemy you envisioned.
That's what I liked about the dev chosen invasions.
Then players would actually have to deal with a enemy you envisioned.
That's what I liked about the dev chosen invasions.
Likes:
ObsoleteVodka and EricAZ4
I think a player controlled boss would boss would be interesting.
Likes:
ObsoleteVodka and Pandagnome
You are on a mission with your team and near the end of the mission you have to split up to do two different objectives at once. So you do the objective and are making your way to the rendezvous point when out of nowhere you are attacked by really powerful killer robots. They don't seem to have a pattern and at times seem to be able to guess what you are about to do. So you are hoping the rest of your team shows up soon because you are not sure if you can fight all those powerful and smart enemies without your full team.
Meanwhile, in another part of the mission the other members of your team walked in some high-tech ruins and blacked out. When they woke up they find there are enemies everywhere and fight their way out. Every now and again there would be odd effects on their HUD like small glitches, nothing too bad and they can be easily missed or ignored. Then they get to a big area where they see a small group of bosses. These bosses are really powerful and seem to not have a pattern. In fact, at times they seem to know what they are going to do and counter it. So they hope the rest of their team can get to them in time and help them kill these powerful monsters.
Hmm.... what could have happened? If they were able to read the odd alien text on the walls of the ruins they would know not to trust their eyes. For the temple of trust and distrust can turn friends into enemies and enemies into friends.
Meanwhile, in another part of the mission the other members of your team walked in some high-tech ruins and blacked out. When they woke up they find there are enemies everywhere and fight their way out. Every now and again there would be odd effects on their HUD like small glitches, nothing too bad and they can be easily missed or ignored. Then they get to a big area where they see a small group of bosses. These bosses are really powerful and seem to not have a pattern. In fact, at times they seem to know what they are going to do and counter it. So they hope the rest of their team can get to them in time and help them kill these powerful monsters.
Hmm.... what could have happened? If they were able to read the odd alien text on the walls of the ruins they would know not to trust their eyes. For the temple of trust and distrust can turn friends into enemies and enemies into friends.
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Silv3r Shadow
For some reason I suspect that the following is perhaps more difficult to translate into a 3D-game, but it is something I found very interesting and realistic in certain 2D-sidescroller (Megaman Zero, ZX and ZX Advent). Bear with me here.
In the prequels to those games games, whenever you hit a larger enemy or boss, whether you used a slashing weapon or other, they always took a single hit from it an went into an invincibility period that was signified by the character flashing. In later titles, the ones above, when I used a sword, I could slash across an enemy and I could hear multiple hits and I much to my surprise and pleasure did do stacked damaged with my slashes, and I think only after that did bosses go into their invincibility period (but, I might be remembering that one incorrectly and maybe they didn't even have invincibility periods, anymore).
I want to get two things out of all that.
1. There should be enemies (not just bosses) that are more susceptible to slashes and edged weapons than to blunt-force and vice-versa. For example, in case of armored kaijus, bladed weapons should be ineffective, either completely or they should be much less effective than, say, battle-hammers that could dent armor. In case of ranged weapons, incendiary, chemical (acid, thermite...etc.) rounds should be more effective than plain or any other projectiles. Cannot rightly say if energy-weapons would/should do more or less damage to armor. It's thermal-damage, in a way. Also, larger and stronger, low fire-rate cannons could burn a hole right through, at least, lighter armor, if not heavier plating. Punching, as blunt-damage, could only be useful against lighter armor, while heavier armor would need proper bludgeoning.
2. In case of bladed weapons on soft, fleshy targets, the bigger they are and the closer our weapon would hit and the wider the arc of the slash, the more damage the enemy should suffer, depending on just how close we could get with a sword, halberd..etc. We could have something like an e.g.: reach stat for bladed weapons that would only allow for maximum damage within a certain distance. This is nothing new. But, I'd like to think the following might be. If we'd slash at an enemy close to the limit of our weapon's effective range, it could do only half or 3/4 of the damage, and if it's a big bugger than we'd only nick it with the tip of our swords, grazing it without much damage. But, if we slashed from an arm's reach away, well within range, then we'd be dragging our weapon deeper across the enemy and in a wider arc, doing more severe wounds that could cause bleeding effects and could even open up weak-spots on boss-type giants, so others could salt those wounds with incendiaries and toxic rounds that would be more effective fired directly into exposed flesh and innards.
Now, of course, I haven't a clue if it'd be possible to design such a...damage-registering system. Or if it would be innovative in anyway. If some other game (of similar scale), has such elements to it, then I sure don't know about it.
It would really create a difference, in purpose, between bladed and blunt weapons (haven't even included piercing damage, via e.g.: spears, but those type of weapons are not something I could see entering into such a game).
Bladed weapons would be most effective on softer, slower targets that we could get close to. While blunt-weapons would be invaluable for weakening armor and could easily crush enemies below a certain size.
These could add stages to a larger boss-fight. First its armor would need to be weakened in certain parts, then blasted off. It'd be vulnerable in those spots, which the AI should at least try to protect by orienting itself differently or by directing swipe attacks so they'd attempt to swat anyone who might try to get close and even try to shield those exposed parts on their bodies with appendages that they'd pull away when those would suffer enough damage. Hammer-wielding frames, supported by gun-fire (either from others or their secondary weapons) would reveal the flesh that would be vulnerable to attacks. Blade-wielding frames could, then, make them even more vulnerable and make the effectiveness of others even better by opening wounds. Attacks directed on joints could eventually sever limbs. Shooting at the head, once the armor(ed shell) had been stripped away, could achieve the same effect. Pelting the face and bashing the skull until it'd be full of gaping, gushing holes, by which time the creature would only need to be put out of its misery and it would fall to the ground, shaking the earth, as blood would pool around it from its mangled body.
Someone else suggested that damage suffered by enemies could be visually represented in different stages, but while my graphic description was only meant for effect, some minimal representation, at least, on the larger enemies would be neat. It doesn't even have to be detailed. Just blood-decals and some blackened spots for holes. Nothing major.
While I don't rea(listica)lly expect melee-weapon damage to be broken up into such distance-based effectiveness, just having bladed and blunt weapons differ in purpose and be suited for dealing with different kinds of layers of defense is something that shouldn't be too hard to include in the game, with minimal visual representation of weakened/exposed or critically wounded areas (blood decals on large enemies or just slightly altered meshes of affected spots, like how Chosen Obliterators needed plates of armor blasted off).
In the prequels to those games games, whenever you hit a larger enemy or boss, whether you used a slashing weapon or other, they always took a single hit from it an went into an invincibility period that was signified by the character flashing. In later titles, the ones above, when I used a sword, I could slash across an enemy and I could hear multiple hits and I much to my surprise and pleasure did do stacked damaged with my slashes, and I think only after that did bosses go into their invincibility period (but, I might be remembering that one incorrectly and maybe they didn't even have invincibility periods, anymore).
I want to get two things out of all that.
1. There should be enemies (not just bosses) that are more susceptible to slashes and edged weapons than to blunt-force and vice-versa. For example, in case of armored kaijus, bladed weapons should be ineffective, either completely or they should be much less effective than, say, battle-hammers that could dent armor. In case of ranged weapons, incendiary, chemical (acid, thermite...etc.) rounds should be more effective than plain or any other projectiles. Cannot rightly say if energy-weapons would/should do more or less damage to armor. It's thermal-damage, in a way. Also, larger and stronger, low fire-rate cannons could burn a hole right through, at least, lighter armor, if not heavier plating. Punching, as blunt-damage, could only be useful against lighter armor, while heavier armor would need proper bludgeoning.
2. In case of bladed weapons on soft, fleshy targets, the bigger they are and the closer our weapon would hit and the wider the arc of the slash, the more damage the enemy should suffer, depending on just how close we could get with a sword, halberd..etc. We could have something like an e.g.: reach stat for bladed weapons that would only allow for maximum damage within a certain distance. This is nothing new. But, I'd like to think the following might be. If we'd slash at an enemy close to the limit of our weapon's effective range, it could do only half or 3/4 of the damage, and if it's a big bugger than we'd only nick it with the tip of our swords, grazing it without much damage. But, if we slashed from an arm's reach away, well within range, then we'd be dragging our weapon deeper across the enemy and in a wider arc, doing more severe wounds that could cause bleeding effects and could even open up weak-spots on boss-type giants, so others could salt those wounds with incendiaries and toxic rounds that would be more effective fired directly into exposed flesh and innards.
Now, of course, I haven't a clue if it'd be possible to design such a...damage-registering system. Or if it would be innovative in anyway. If some other game (of similar scale), has such elements to it, then I sure don't know about it.
It would really create a difference, in purpose, between bladed and blunt weapons (haven't even included piercing damage, via e.g.: spears, but those type of weapons are not something I could see entering into such a game).
Bladed weapons would be most effective on softer, slower targets that we could get close to. While blunt-weapons would be invaluable for weakening armor and could easily crush enemies below a certain size.
These could add stages to a larger boss-fight. First its armor would need to be weakened in certain parts, then blasted off. It'd be vulnerable in those spots, which the AI should at least try to protect by orienting itself differently or by directing swipe attacks so they'd attempt to swat anyone who might try to get close and even try to shield those exposed parts on their bodies with appendages that they'd pull away when those would suffer enough damage. Hammer-wielding frames, supported by gun-fire (either from others or their secondary weapons) would reveal the flesh that would be vulnerable to attacks. Blade-wielding frames could, then, make them even more vulnerable and make the effectiveness of others even better by opening wounds. Attacks directed on joints could eventually sever limbs. Shooting at the head, once the armor(ed shell) had been stripped away, could achieve the same effect. Pelting the face and bashing the skull until it'd be full of gaping, gushing holes, by which time the creature would only need to be put out of its misery and it would fall to the ground, shaking the earth, as blood would pool around it from its mangled body.
Someone else suggested that damage suffered by enemies could be visually represented in different stages, but while my graphic description was only meant for effect, some minimal representation, at least, on the larger enemies would be neat. It doesn't even have to be detailed. Just blood-decals and some blackened spots for holes. Nothing major.
While I don't rea(listica)lly expect melee-weapon damage to be broken up into such distance-based effectiveness, just having bladed and blunt weapons differ in purpose and be suited for dealing with different kinds of layers of defense is something that shouldn't be too hard to include in the game, with minimal visual representation of weakened/exposed or critically wounded areas (blood decals on large enemies or just slightly altered meshes of affected spots, like how Chosen Obliterators needed plates of armor blasted off).