Assault rifles

[Vedemin]

Hello everyone!
Lots of shooter games have this weapon. A problematic one. It has high damage, perfect accuracy, long range, low recoil, fast RoF and good mag size.

I am talking about Assault Rifle. They are really the best choice in every game. How to balance them? It is not nice to remove a possibility to craft a weapon like this, if we want it in game, we have to discuss how to balance such weapons. There won't be classes/frames (sadly, I liked that concept) so we wouldn't like to see everybody running with it like in Battlefield.

How to balance it? Discuss!

 

[DemonSlayer873]

I want 1 assault rifle secondary nothing more
(that tag tho)

 

[PlzBanMe]

You are looking at this problem wrong. You see a weapon and then you see it having stats you don't like. When you should address the problem of "what an assault should be in this game". A high powered weapon with a small mag and decent recoil?

 

[EvilKitten]

One weapon, many mods... I think we should have a universal main weapon that we can customize how we see fit but has limited ammo (supply drops etc like FF engineer had) and a backup laser pistol that has a power charge that builds over time (IE unlimited ammo but can't fire incessantly without waiting a bit for power to regenerate). Those are the only two guns I think the player should have. Grenade type weapons extra.

 

[Wyntyr]

One weapon, many mods... I think we should have a universal main weapon that we can customize how we see fit but has limited ammo (supply drops etc like FF engineer had) and a backup laser pistol that has a power charge that builds over time (IE unlimited ammo but can't fire incessantly without waiting a bit for power to regenerate). Those are the only two guns I think the player should have. Grenade type weapons extra.

interesting idea...omni primary weapon...

 

[MollilMayhem]

My favorite loadout is still sniper rifle primary, assault rifle secondary.

 

[Vedemin]

The problem is that "one weapon many mods" eliminates chance for specialized elements. Weapons should be classed when crafting. We should have lot of freedom and we should be able to use weapon 1 as primary fire and weapon 2 as secondary by simply binding them together.

Assault rifle is a class of weapon that should be good at everything. That is not fun in-game if it is a primary.

 

[EvilKitten]

Why would it eliminate the chance for specialized elements? It would simply be part of whatever mods you installed in your weapon. Base secondary would be a grenade type launcher, you can simply throw in a mod that changes that.

 

[Vedemin]

Why would it eliminate the chance for specialized elements? It would simply be part of whatever mods you installed in your weapon. Base secondary would be a grenade type launcher, you can simply throw in a mod that changes that.

Because than you can just use whatever you want any exploit it to hell

 

[EvilKitten]

@Vedemin You will need to elaborate on that.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Vedemin, evilkitten is suggesting that players get a like a skeleton of a gun.
They can then craft stuff that can alter it's properties.
So if you want to create a sniper rifle or a RPG off the same gun, you could.... just that there should also be something you lose at the cost of whatever benefit you are getting.

You can't have everything.

a backup laser pistol that has a power charge that builds over time (IE unlimited ammo but can't fire incessantly without waiting a bit for power to regenerate)..

like the doom 2016 pistol?

hehe I actually like using that pistol. You can spam it like an SMG before it needs to recharge but the damage is low per shot

 

[EvilKitten]

@SomeUnregPunk Exactly. Pure horizontal gameplay, with no mods equipped you have a basic assault rifle with grenade attatchment. To turn it into a sniper rifle you would have to add mods, say a mod that increases bullet velocity, but at the cost of say clip size. You could add a 2x, 4x or 8x scope, but at increasing loss of accuracy without using said scope etc.

You can have mods that change the damage type (bullet, laser etc), how the projectile/beam behaves etc, among other things, but the default weapon would be a jack of all trades assault rifle. There would be lots of potential effects availible for mods to cover, but any mod that increases your ability to deal damage (dps, accuracy etc) would also have a drawback to maintain pure horizontal progression.

 

[Vedemin]

@SomeUnregPunk Exactly. Pure horizontal gameplay, with no mods equipped you have a basic assault rifle with grenade attatchment. To turn it into a sniper rifle you would have to add mods, say a mod that increases bullet velocity, but at the cost of say clip size. You could add a 2x, 4x or 8x scope, but at increasing loss of accuracy without using said scope etc.

You can have mods that change the damage type (bullet, laser etc), how the projectile/beam behaves etc, among other things, but the default weapon would be a jack of all trades assault rifle. There would be lots of potential effects availible for mods to cover, but any mod that increases your ability to deal damage (dps, accuracy etc) would also have a drawback to maintain pure horizontal progression.

I don't really like this idea, but it sounds better

 

[Yrkul]

Assault rifles would only be a problem, if the gun mechanics have few elements. Once you take everything in, from accuracy and rate of fire, to recoil and encumberance, different weapons will be suited to different situations, playstyles, etc...

 

[Luisedgm]

Assault rifles are fine if the other weapons are balanced to compete with it

 

[Squid Boss]

There's always a 'Best' option. Always.

Removing a choice from the mix isn't a solution.

If weapons each have a focus and defined purpose and are not able to be modified to such an extent they cross the line into another weapons purpose then it's perfectly acceptable. If an Assault Rifle is your long range more accurate weapon, the SMG the short range high burst weapon, the LMG the medium range marathon gun, the shotgun the short range, etc etc... So long as one of those weapons cannot do everything best but can do everything you're fine.

Division screwed this up by making SMG and Marksman Rifles the only weapons with added bonuses. It was too easy to crit stack SMG and headshot bonus Marksman rifle to make them far superior to Assault Rifles, LMG's, and Shotguns(which at the start of the game had no additional bonuses at all)- Add in some mechanic flaws and bullet sponge enemies shotgun was near useless since you yourself were a glass cannon. Pistols didn't scale for crap to boot.

TLDR; Poor planning makes a weapon type OP and rise over all others. Removing a weapon type because of improper balance only restricts options. There will always be a 'best' type.

 

[mayhemmike]

This could be approached in the manner of thinking of the weapon as a tool. Pick what is best for a situation and environment. In close quarters with hallways and corners an smg or shotgun. Open field or areas with higher ground or structures is a sniper rifles wet dream. And in an area that has cover an lmg would be nice to break that cover up or keep the targets pinned down/suppressed with an lmg or heavy weapons

Each of these weapons would still work in the different environments but one is more at home than the others. With the assault rifle being in the middle for most situations.

 

[The Cyan Dragon]

I've always had a more realistic look on things, being a gunsmith, but, here's my take on assault rifles...

They're a 'jack of all trades' weapon. They really, really are.

Lightweight pistol-caliber weapons such as SMG's and PDW's work better in close-combat enviroments due to ease of ergonomics, and size, and shotguns trump both in close combat due to firepower and utility (can't blast a door with a .45 or 7.62)

Larger-caliber weapons do better at long range, such as battle rifles/marksman rifles, and obviously sniper rifles.

Anti-materiel weapons fill a unique niche that is perhaps one of the few things an assault rifle can't do, and that's take out things that aren't people (radios, tank tracks, engines of vehicles, etc)

However, if you want a weapon that performs well enough anywhere, be it up close, at a distance, and mostly, in any enviroment, you use an assault rifle.

There's also something to be said about calibers, rounds of choice, and all that, but, honestly, that's also so situational it's not worth getting into here.

 

[NightStroke]

Just saying the r36 assault rifle from anytime before 1.6 was my favorite weapon in Firefall.

 

[Vedemin]

Just saying the r36 assault rifle from anytime before 1.6 was my favorite weapon in Firefall.

Oh, but it was balanced. It had primary fire and secondary was scope. Nothing too OP here. Assault rifles may be extremely accurate and have let's say a tesla cannon as alt-fire making them complete jack of all trades at almost any distance against any target. That's the problem with them.

P.S. I really preferred your old, blue-black avatar