A message to those who wish to bring the "tried and true" to Ember

[Luisedgm]

Some mechanics are realiable and do work generally in most MMOs like classes, durability and linear progression, but have you ever considered that these very mechanics are what make most of these games so bland and boring?
The MMO market has stagnated because everyone wants to be WoW, because one formula worked so well everyone thinks its crazy to go in any other direction.
Luckly Mark and the Ember team can see this, but it seems many of the members here still don't understand the importance of innovation. Ember can only be successful if it can distinguish itself from everything else in the market.
This is the time to think outside of the box, these same old ideas may work on other games, but Ember cannot afford going in the same direction these games went.

 

[TankHunter678]

I would rather see an approach closer to Path of Exile then something like WoW.

To explain, although Path of Exile does have linear progression it does not have things like classes.

You starting choice of character determines your place on the passive skill tree (like the FF10 sphere grid), but it depends on you how you allocate your passive skill points, what you equip, what skill gems and support gems you socket (like the FF7 materia system). This results in a wide range of builds. Some examples:

Yes meta builds do exist, and some builds simply wont be viable in certain stages of the game, but the players can work around this and modify their builds with enough investment and work but it does create styles of fighting that would not be seen in any other kind of MMO.

 

[Sik San]

The MMO market has stagnated because everyone wants to be WoW, because one formula worked so well everyone thinks its crazy to go in any other direction.

The other side of the medal is target audience. Even at this forum I see a lot of ppl that just want another theme park they gonna leave in 3 months cuz they will be bored as soon as they get all the "purples". Almost every serious thought/mechanic faces negative reaction - "Booooo, I don't want to lose my uber rifle, boooo, repair is unnecessary i just wanna pew-pew, boooo it's to hard or complicated etc etc".

From that reaction I see that ppl rly want another WoW.

P.S. Denying other games good/bad aspects also does not help to "think outside of the box" like you're saying =)

 

[MollilMayhem]

NO WOW!!!

 

[Grummz]

While we are still working out many aspects of Ember, it won't be "WoW with guns" and won't have traditional leveling, quests and raids. I helped invent the "exclamation mark questgiver" for MMOs when we did WoW and never want to do that again.

P.S. the choice of symbol was inspired by Metal Gear Solid.

 

[Grummz]

Dammit. Fixed!

 

[MattHunX]

While we are still working out many aspects of Ember, it won't be "WoW with guns" and won't have traditional leveling, quests and raids. I helped invent the "exclamation mark questgiver" for MMOs when we did WoW and never want to do that again.

P.S. the choice of symbol was inspired by Metal Gear Solid.

You did what now!? Wow. Insider.

As long as we have a notification system of some kind that shows available "quests", per area, so that people won't miss out on content, it would be fine. Yes, it is perhaps more immersive if the player is required to travel around, bumping into every NPC to see if they got something for the player to do, but it also gets tedious, especially if the player comes up empty.

 

[MattHunX]

I would rather see an approach closer to Path of Exile then something like WoW.

To explain, although Path of Exile does have linear progression it does not have things like classes.

You starting choice of character determines your place on the passive skill tree (like the FF10 sphere grid), but it depends on you how you allocate your passive skill points, what you equip, what skill gems and support gems you socket (like the FF7 materia system). This results in a wide range of builds. Some examples:

Yes meta builds do exist, and some builds simply wont be viable in certain stages of the game, but the players can work around this and modify their builds with enough investment and work but it does create styles of fighting that would not be seen in any other kind of MMO.

Those skill-trees look vast...and mental.

Reminds me of SKYFORGE.

The amount of effort and TIME it would take to map it all out. If one was even allowed to.

 

[Vladplaya]

@MattHunX Well nobody is saying that something like that has to be done overnight.

They can start with just few solid skills and grow from there in the future.

 

[MattHunX]

@MattHunX Well nobody is saying that something like that has to be done overnight.

They can start with just few solid skills and grow from there in the future.

Of course. But looking at it all feels like it could take years!

Well, some might say that it will make a game entertaining for that long, but at the same time it can become tedious.

 

[TankHunter678]

Those skill-trees look vast...and mental.

Reminds me of SKYFORGE.

The amount of effort and TIME it would take to map it all out. If one was even allowed to.

You got 100 skill points (not including quest reward points which are once per difficulty) to make your build. And the passive skill tree is roughly.... 3k nodes? Part of the reason they have "highway" nodes for transit between starting "areas" which are based on the initial character selected. The passive skill tree is based off of FF10

That tree is just the passives though. Combat skills are based on the skill gems socketed into your gear. Links determine what support gems affect those skills. Color determines what stat is needed for the skill. Red = Strength, Green = Dex, Blue = Int.

The skill and support gems (there are also trigger gems) level up through use/killing. Each time you level them they get just a bit more effective and a bit more costly. This can mean a person by trying to replace one piece can result in their entire build falling apart. So you got to be very careful.

 

[Vladplaya]

@MattHunX Na when you start feeling like the game becomes tedious, you just take a break and go play something else. Then after sometime when you come back, you will appreciate all the diversity and options that are available to you

 

[MattHunX]

@MattHunX Na when you start feeling like the game comes tedious, you just take a break and go play something else. Then after someone when you come back, you well appreciate all the diversity and options that are available to you

Perhaps I should have such breaks more often. Well, just had a 1,5 year break from FF and it looks like the game will take a permanent break from US.

 

[NitroMidgets]

The problem with people taking a break from a game is that many find it hard to return to the game unless there is a reason to. Like with Warframe and old players only returning when a new Prime character comes out. That sort of thing. In the end even with horizontal progression they are faced with the question of how do you create a reason for them to return without risking breaking your horizontal progression.
That will require other new content since you can't create more power.
Mark will just have to get creative on how to accomplish that task.

 

[Vladplaya]

@MattHunX No breaks could have helped you with FireFall. The game became shit, and that is all there is to it.

The9 done goofed up.

 

[Vladplaya]

The problem with people taking a break from a game is that many find it hard to return to the game unless there is a reason to. Like with Warframe and old players only returning when a new Prime character comes out. That sort of thing. In the end even with horizontal progression they are faced with the question of how do you create a reason for them to return without risking breaking your horizontal progression.
That will require other new content since you can't create more power.
Mark will just have to get creative on how to accomplish that task.

I have pretty good idea on how that can be accomplished, and but I will make a whole new topic with the suggestion sometime later.

It is definitely not an easy task, especially for studio that can't churn out content very fast. That's why you focus on gameplay and purpose of the player in the game.

 

[NitroMidgets]

Ah, it's good to stalk Vladplaya again.

 

[Alfonso]

Some mechanics are realiable and do work generally in most MMOs like classes, durability and linear progression, but have you ever considered that these very mechanics are what make most of these games so bland and boring?
The MMO market has stagnated because everyone wants to be WoW, because one formula worked so well everyone thinks its crazy to go in any other direction.
Luckly Mark and the Ember team can see this, but it seems many of the members here still don't understand the importance of innovation. Ember can only be successful if it can distinguish itself from everything else in the market.
This is the time to think outside of the box, these same old ideas may work on other games, but Ember cannot afford going in the same direction these games went.

My favorate word! INNOVATION!

 

[Alfonso]

One of MMORPG I backed as a founder, said to be hardcore sandbox RPG.
It turned out as just another MMORPG + item drop upon death. <-- just that makes a game hardcore and sandboxy? No way.
Many games use those words just to attract gamers while they haven't really thought about what sandbox style is.

 

[Vladplaya]

Ah, it's good to stalk Vladplaya again.