Thanks for the better explanation of Claim Steaks on Discord Grummz, we love you despite the spiciness. ; )
Specifically, I wanted to know more about Claim Steaks. And I think it would have helped with people's reactions.
You've covered a lot of points during this impromptu CC, which were not covered yesterday. It helps us form our opinions.
Specifically, I wanted to know more about Claim Steaks. And I think it would have helped with people's reactions.
You've covered a lot of points during this impromptu CC, which were not covered yesterday. It helps us form our opinions.
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Likes:
Faeryl, Wyntyr and Mahdi
I just want to say that other than the solo nature of claim stakes, this sounds fine. I'd prefer groups building a claim stake, myself. Otherwise, I don't understand most of the concern. There's crafting in every MMO, and this is a large-scale war MMO, and team progress feels good. You don't really HAVE to even use the claim stakes, right? You can do all this on the main field, albeit more hostile and threatening.
But if this post is literally only about claim stakes, solo-only, I don't want to hang out in my home very much. I want to be around people, I want my progress to be in the open world, pushing back the tsi-hu or fighting to keep territory until the last moment.
Claimstakes will be for the player who wants to chill and garden. There are definitely players who want to do that. It's not currently on my list of things to do, but that may change.
But if this post is literally only about claim stakes, solo-only, I don't want to hang out in my home very much. I want to be around people, I want my progress to be in the open world, pushing back the tsi-hu or fighting to keep territory until the last moment.
Claimstakes will be for the player who wants to chill and garden. There are definitely players who want to do that. It's not currently on my list of things to do, but that may change.
P
I think I can see where crafting could be interesting. But it needs to be figured out and designed for before you announce it imo. And I think involving it too early in the game is a bit much. Crafting should be a cool optional thing like other online games. Something rewarding. But before adding a really game changing feature you should test it first. Then figure out how to impliment it in the least disruptive way.
I think the ability to invest excess resources into building a homestead is a great idea to give people something to invest in and leave their mark on the world.
One thing that stuck out to me in the discussion today was the idea of allowing people who are prolific crafters and base builders to contribute content to the game for everyone else to enjoy.
I think that's the one place where the idea of creating your personal homestead could be improved really significantly by leveraging the sites that people create as battlegrounds against invasions.
Instead of simply building by yourself and for yourself somewhere you could set your claimstake to essentially enter a rotation of defense missions where other people are brought to your homestead via a matchmaking tool, and then fight off hordes of Tsi-Hu.
That would leverage the fact that players are filling procedurally generated terrain with unique constructions as a vast amount of unique "levels" that people can dip into for a defensive action.
Of course there would be some kind of reward for setting your claim to active, maybe some resources that are awarded every time a defense mission takes place there. The people who defend it also get rewarded when they successfully hold off the invasion of course.
If the areas that players populate can be leveraged in the combat gameplay loop the game will very quickly have more levels than really any other game can boast.
Give people the ability to rate a homestead after a defense mission for additional rewards and you give additional incentives to people to get creative and really try to create an awesome environment to battle in.
One thing that stuck out to me in the discussion today was the idea of allowing people who are prolific crafters and base builders to contribute content to the game for everyone else to enjoy.
I think that's the one place where the idea of creating your personal homestead could be improved really significantly by leveraging the sites that people create as battlegrounds against invasions.
Instead of simply building by yourself and for yourself somewhere you could set your claimstake to essentially enter a rotation of defense missions where other people are brought to your homestead via a matchmaking tool, and then fight off hordes of Tsi-Hu.
That would leverage the fact that players are filling procedurally generated terrain with unique constructions as a vast amount of unique "levels" that people can dip into for a defensive action.
Of course there would be some kind of reward for setting your claim to active, maybe some resources that are awarded every time a defense mission takes place there. The people who defend it also get rewarded when they successfully hold off the invasion of course.
If the areas that players populate can be leveraged in the combat gameplay loop the game will very quickly have more levels than really any other game can boast.
Give people the ability to rate a homestead after a defense mission for additional rewards and you give additional incentives to people to get creative and really try to create an awesome environment to battle in.
Just like the city of Atlantis!
Most likely highly trained Commandos would be my guess hmm
If the tutorial was part of the game objectives then it would be tricky to avoid since that needs to be done to get out of the area perhaps?
I remember in Neverwinter there was a Neverwinter Foundry system that players can create and list missions. So it got me thinking what if for Em8er we could list it with different things to do such as:
- Simulation missions (training and advance skills)
- Live missions (Players whom require assistance in current event / base)
- High Alert (All players encouraged to participate effects everyone)
- Gateway (Various community created events from social theme, racing, to combat etc etc)
Most likely highly trained Commandos would be my guess hmm
If the tutorial was part of the game objectives then it would be tricky to avoid since that needs to be done to get out of the area perhaps?
I remember in Neverwinter there was a Neverwinter Foundry system that players can create and list missions. So it got me thinking what if for Em8er we could list it with different things to do such as:
- Simulation missions (training and advance skills)
- Live missions (Players whom require assistance in current event / base)
- High Alert (All players encouraged to participate effects everyone)
- Gateway (Various community created events from social theme, racing, to combat etc etc)
Likes:
ChAzZ_NuT, Partha and Wyntyr
I mentioned this in the discord, but figured i'd try and find a spot to post this suggestion.
A Work Order Board would tie Crafters and Shooters together rather nicely if done right.
I'd Imagine it would work something like the board out of PSO, but more public and probably a little more complex.
From what was described in the chief chat, and the physicalized crafting, it'd require a few more steps than in PSO, but... I think it could work like this.
Gunman is a Crafter and he has flagged himself for receiving Work Orders for Guns. He is currently in his homestead in his crafting building.
Note: This would really depend on if crafting is broken up into sections like Primary Guns, Armor, Shoulder Weapons, etc and how "Levelling" in those works, but bear with me.
Shooterman is a player out in the main world and is hunting for resources, but he decides he wants new gear. He also doesn't want to slog through the market-board just to find something premade that is just "good enough".
---
Shooterman goes to the Post-Office building either in the Hub, or the one that the Base he is currently in has spent the resources for and is built. He goes to the Work Order Kiosk and posts 2 work Orders. One for a better gun, and One for Ablative Plating because everything is doing fire damage for some reason.
Things can vary here wildly depending on how crafting works. if a crafter is able to fiddle with performance statistics for a resource cost, then Shooterman can move sliders and widgets to custom tune the weapon. If the craft is you just make the recipe and whatever you get out is whatever you get out, then thats it. He just chooses the gun. For now, we'll just say you can fiddle with widgets.
Shooterman settles on a MKII Autocannon with +10% Firing Rate and Corrosive Rounds.
The game calculates the base resource cost for a MKII Autocannon, then adds the cost to add both the Firing Rate and Corrosive Rounds mod. Then it adds a 20% markup to everything. That is the resource cost to Shooterman. He finds that acceptable and posts the work order. After that, he posts one for the Ablative Plating.
Gunman is in his Homestead and wants to craft something, but is low on resources. So, he checks his Work Order Receiver and sees that Shooterman has a freshly posted Work Order for the MKII Autocannon.
He doesn't see the Ablative Plating Order, as he isn't flagged for receiving them.
He takes the Autocannon Order, which removes it from the board and no one else can take it.
Gunman is given a mission where he has 30 minutes to complete the craft. Gunman never actually receives the resources to craft the weapon, just a "Crate That Contains Everything He Needs". He takes this crate and it walks him through step-by-step simulating the crafting process for making the gun from scratch. (Whatever that looks like in the final game.) He might have to run the crate through several machines to finish the final process.
He completes everything and the MKII Autocannon is automatically mailed to Shooterman, who just has to pick it up from the Post-Office. Gunman is mailed Half of the Resource Markup cost of the gun, and maybe some bonus in-game money.
If Gunman doesn't finish the craft in time, then maybe he is banned from taking orders for an hour. Or a day or more for repeat offences. In this case, the Work Order is automatically posted back to the board for someone else to finish.
A Work Order Board would tie Crafters and Shooters together rather nicely if done right.
I'd Imagine it would work something like the board out of PSO, but more public and probably a little more complex.
From what was described in the chief chat, and the physicalized crafting, it'd require a few more steps than in PSO, but... I think it could work like this.
Gunman is a Crafter and he has flagged himself for receiving Work Orders for Guns. He is currently in his homestead in his crafting building.
Note: This would really depend on if crafting is broken up into sections like Primary Guns, Armor, Shoulder Weapons, etc and how "Levelling" in those works, but bear with me.
Shooterman is a player out in the main world and is hunting for resources, but he decides he wants new gear. He also doesn't want to slog through the market-board just to find something premade that is just "good enough".
---
Shooterman goes to the Post-Office building either in the Hub, or the one that the Base he is currently in has spent the resources for and is built. He goes to the Work Order Kiosk and posts 2 work Orders. One for a better gun, and One for Ablative Plating because everything is doing fire damage for some reason.
Things can vary here wildly depending on how crafting works. if a crafter is able to fiddle with performance statistics for a resource cost, then Shooterman can move sliders and widgets to custom tune the weapon. If the craft is you just make the recipe and whatever you get out is whatever you get out, then thats it. He just chooses the gun. For now, we'll just say you can fiddle with widgets.
Shooterman settles on a MKII Autocannon with +10% Firing Rate and Corrosive Rounds.
The game calculates the base resource cost for a MKII Autocannon, then adds the cost to add both the Firing Rate and Corrosive Rounds mod. Then it adds a 20% markup to everything. That is the resource cost to Shooterman. He finds that acceptable and posts the work order. After that, he posts one for the Ablative Plating.
Gunman is in his Homestead and wants to craft something, but is low on resources. So, he checks his Work Order Receiver and sees that Shooterman has a freshly posted Work Order for the MKII Autocannon.
He doesn't see the Ablative Plating Order, as he isn't flagged for receiving them.
He takes the Autocannon Order, which removes it from the board and no one else can take it.
Gunman is given a mission where he has 30 minutes to complete the craft. Gunman never actually receives the resources to craft the weapon, just a "Crate That Contains Everything He Needs". He takes this crate and it walks him through step-by-step simulating the crafting process for making the gun from scratch. (Whatever that looks like in the final game.) He might have to run the crate through several machines to finish the final process.
He completes everything and the MKII Autocannon is automatically mailed to Shooterman, who just has to pick it up from the Post-Office. Gunman is mailed Half of the Resource Markup cost of the gun, and maybe some bonus in-game money.
If Gunman doesn't finish the craft in time, then maybe he is banned from taking orders for an hour. Or a day or more for repeat offences. In this case, the Work Order is automatically posted back to the board for someone else to finish.
I am imagining what Grummz is saying.
A massive world beyond the wall, a very large planet with an 8km square starter zone. I love it. New zones are unlocked by player participation and involvement. Got it. Also love it.
Players start on the base station... makes sense. You can give players a mandatory IQ check there in the form of a basic tutorial…lol
Claim stakes. How big will those zones be? Let's get back to this in a sec…
Okayyyy, So I start with NO Omniframe?
So will there be omniframe progression from light to medium to heavy? Doesn't that just lead to everyone aiming at building the heavy? What happens to playstyle based on frame choice? Did I understand that wrong? I feel like I understood that wrong…
Ok, I get the construction of basic crafting stations and such. I do NOT like the idea of those resources being attacked and destructible because that is a recipe for endless base claim resource gathering just to keep your basic station and ops running…
So, IF I understand this well ... I will need to craft my workstations, so I can build my first omniframe, which allows me to actually survive material gathering in the multiplayer zone, so I can take said advanced materials back to my personal zone ... and get attacked there too? ...???
I can get behind most of this, but I need to ask...Why start with both personal and multiplayer zones? Why are the resources in your claim only low level? If it's part of the same global map as all other zones, then the resources therein should be random. You might hit the jackpot or get a lemon... I like the claim stake idea, but …. Hear me out here.
I'm going to have to say that my initial opinion is low 3 on 10 on this. I don't see the necessity of it.
SUGGESTION:
You can just make part of the inner zone as a heavily mined area that players can get a claim to, something like a giant mine pit,. Starting players can pay a % of their gathered materials towards a short term claim. Say a claim might be for a few hours at a time, a day or so.
There are only common mats there because it has been heavily mined...
Make the crafting stations there basic... just enough to get that basic omniframe up and running....
THEN you can get a planetary claim stake… (you have to prove to Gatestrider command and the other members of the community that you are up to the task). Now that you have basic equipment, you can build a small base and set up ADVANCED workstations. You could even make those claims, and their resources, a tradable commodity... that would make your claim as an attackable zone more logical...
This way you would be more apt to call in friends and other players you have met along the way, possibly negotiating a % of the claim's resources as payment for their aid.
The resources therein should be random, as mentioned above, but once you have your claim, if it's a lemon, good luck selling it… you could drop the claim, but you have to wait a bit before you can stake another claim…. The perfect time to go help others who DO have a profitable claim.
Just some ideas.
Don't drop the claim stake idea completely, just make it progressive.
Start with a short term claim lease (STCL), allowing access to basic materials and fighting basic enemies.
Then progress to Personal Claim Stakes (PCS ####), which can be expanded to a moderate area limit.
The next step would be Guild Claim Stakes (GCS ####) which can conglomerate adjacent PCS's into one. This will further incentivize players negotiating their claim stakes. It can even be a purchasable item from the store (merging the claims into one guild claim).
The final step would be Community Claim Stakes (CCS ##), massive new industrial, commercial or habitation zones that everyone who wants to live there has to contribute to. Build apartments for housing, plazas for selling and factories for processing. Go to it!
A massive world beyond the wall, a very large planet with an 8km square starter zone. I love it. New zones are unlocked by player participation and involvement. Got it. Also love it.
Players start on the base station... makes sense. You can give players a mandatory IQ check there in the form of a basic tutorial…lol
Claim stakes. How big will those zones be? Let's get back to this in a sec…
Okayyyy, So I start with NO Omniframe?
So will there be omniframe progression from light to medium to heavy? Doesn't that just lead to everyone aiming at building the heavy? What happens to playstyle based on frame choice? Did I understand that wrong? I feel like I understood that wrong…
Ok, I get the construction of basic crafting stations and such. I do NOT like the idea of those resources being attacked and destructible because that is a recipe for endless base claim resource gathering just to keep your basic station and ops running…
So, IF I understand this well ... I will need to craft my workstations, so I can build my first omniframe, which allows me to actually survive material gathering in the multiplayer zone, so I can take said advanced materials back to my personal zone ... and get attacked there too? ...???
I can get behind most of this, but I need to ask...Why start with both personal and multiplayer zones? Why are the resources in your claim only low level? If it's part of the same global map as all other zones, then the resources therein should be random. You might hit the jackpot or get a lemon... I like the claim stake idea, but …. Hear me out here.
I'm going to have to say that my initial opinion is low 3 on 10 on this. I don't see the necessity of it.
SUGGESTION:
You can just make part of the inner zone as a heavily mined area that players can get a claim to, something like a giant mine pit,. Starting players can pay a % of their gathered materials towards a short term claim. Say a claim might be for a few hours at a time, a day or so.
There are only common mats there because it has been heavily mined...
Make the crafting stations there basic... just enough to get that basic omniframe up and running....
THEN you can get a planetary claim stake… (you have to prove to Gatestrider command and the other members of the community that you are up to the task). Now that you have basic equipment, you can build a small base and set up ADVANCED workstations. You could even make those claims, and their resources, a tradable commodity... that would make your claim as an attackable zone more logical...
This way you would be more apt to call in friends and other players you have met along the way, possibly negotiating a % of the claim's resources as payment for their aid.
The resources therein should be random, as mentioned above, but once you have your claim, if it's a lemon, good luck selling it… you could drop the claim, but you have to wait a bit before you can stake another claim…. The perfect time to go help others who DO have a profitable claim.
Just some ideas.
Don't drop the claim stake idea completely, just make it progressive.
Start with a short term claim lease (STCL), allowing access to basic materials and fighting basic enemies.
Then progress to Personal Claim Stakes (PCS ####), which can be expanded to a moderate area limit.
The next step would be Guild Claim Stakes (GCS ####) which can conglomerate adjacent PCS's into one. This will further incentivize players negotiating their claim stakes. It can even be a purchasable item from the store (merging the claims into one guild claim).
The final step would be Community Claim Stakes (CCS ##), massive new industrial, commercial or habitation zones that everyone who wants to live there has to contribute to. Build apartments for housing, plazas for selling and factories for processing. Go to it!
He mentioned some feedback on this. We heard in the CC a few hours ago mention that maybe you start with a light frame and maybe a personal mining laser. Basically they want the "Tutorial" with the homestead to be something like.. Start in Hub, claim stake, go to stake.. Build First Thumper within 10 minutes, back to MP game proper in 30 minutes total. There was talk about some prefab stuff you can slap down if you don't want to engage with the custom building.
I hope they have like a Tactical Map screen or something that warns you of the attack and you can press a button to start it at your leisure or ignore it altogether if you don't want to engage and nothing bad will ever happen. But then you also won't get the reward for turning away the invasion if you ignore it.
But, I don't see anything wrong with this on its face. If things get permanently destroyed, yeah that sucks.. But if it just gets replaced with a hologram you can select and pay a fraction of the resource cost to build to get it back that's fine. Or even have no cost, you just spend some time slapping the hologram with a hammer.
I'd imagine defending your base would be something like that episode of Love, Death and Robots with the farmers in Mechs deleting aliens invading their farms. Some small auto-turrets and other defenses.
For the most part, it'd be geared to be handled by a single person ; though, it would be cool to be able to invite your buddies to a party and have it scale up to the number of defenders.
It's only meant to get you started with building if you want to engage that system and probably as an intoduction to the main game loop. Want Thing -> Need Resources -> Get Thumping -> Kill Aliens -> Get Resources -> Build Stuff or Have Someone Else Build Stuff (Personal or For A Base). I think the Homestead Resource distribution should be equal across the board. Just low end starter junk; this will push players into the multiplayer aspect, which is where you want them to be anyway. The homestead is just meant to be a place to hang out with buddies, maybe do a small-scale fight, and craft.
Personally, I don't like any part of this. The first part reads like forced labor for newbies. If the first thing you slap the player with is taxes and tell them they are going to someone else, i don't really see that player staying long.
The second part reads like you're just paying people to come defend your claim for you, which would ignore the ability for the game to just scale an encounter to fit the number of players participating and sharing loot between everyone anyway...in a cooperative game. For this system to be successful and have people want to engage then the rewards for turning an enemy wave need to be worth the trouble for everyone involved, including the player being attacked.
Third part, no.. Just... No. I want to be able to work on my house. I could do without hearing that the guy in the next plot over got +3 gold and is blasting the server about how he wants to sell his empty plot for 1 million credits. Meanwhile, Jim down the road doesn't want to build anything because his plot rolled -1 iron and Copper and he has to cycle plots until he finds something he considers acceptable just so he can lay his first foundation. Then you have to deal with everyone who gets that plot in the future leaving as well because it will always be a dud. Its just going to create dead zones and encourage the jockeying you suggested without providing any value to anyone but the lucky people to get a good or great claim. It's more likely to create frustration in everyone else than anything else.
The fourth part, part of that is going to be there I think. I recall hearing about a single person claim expanding through however many phases so you get a larger area to build on personally.
They mentioned something about maybe implementing cooperative claims I think, like maybe where you group your personal claim up with your buddies and build a village or with your guild to make a small city, but i think that's it. But its all opt-in. I hadn't heard anything about a CCS, but i wouldn't want it to go that far anyway. Keep the claim connections personal, with guild being the farthest it goes.
I hope they have like a Tactical Map screen or something that warns you of the attack and you can press a button to start it at your leisure or ignore it altogether if you don't want to engage and nothing bad will ever happen. But then you also won't get the reward for turning away the invasion if you ignore it.
But, I don't see anything wrong with this on its face. If things get permanently destroyed, yeah that sucks.. But if it just gets replaced with a hologram you can select and pay a fraction of the resource cost to build to get it back that's fine. Or even have no cost, you just spend some time slapping the hologram with a hammer.
I'd imagine defending your base would be something like that episode of Love, Death and Robots with the farmers in Mechs deleting aliens invading their farms. Some small auto-turrets and other defenses.
For the most part, it'd be geared to be handled by a single person ; though, it would be cool to be able to invite your buddies to a party and have it scale up to the number of defenders.
It's only meant to get you started with building if you want to engage that system and probably as an intoduction to the main game loop. Want Thing -> Need Resources -> Get Thumping -> Kill Aliens -> Get Resources -> Build Stuff or Have Someone Else Build Stuff (Personal or For A Base). I think the Homestead Resource distribution should be equal across the board. Just low end starter junk; this will push players into the multiplayer aspect, which is where you want them to be anyway. The homestead is just meant to be a place to hang out with buddies, maybe do a small-scale fight, and craft.
Personally, I don't like any part of this. The first part reads like forced labor for newbies. If the first thing you slap the player with is taxes and tell them they are going to someone else, i don't really see that player staying long.
The second part reads like you're just paying people to come defend your claim for you, which would ignore the ability for the game to just scale an encounter to fit the number of players participating and sharing loot between everyone anyway...in a cooperative game. For this system to be successful and have people want to engage then the rewards for turning an enemy wave need to be worth the trouble for everyone involved, including the player being attacked.
Third part, no.. Just... No. I want to be able to work on my house. I could do without hearing that the guy in the next plot over got +3 gold and is blasting the server about how he wants to sell his empty plot for 1 million credits. Meanwhile, Jim down the road doesn't want to build anything because his plot rolled -1 iron and Copper and he has to cycle plots until he finds something he considers acceptable just so he can lay his first foundation. Then you have to deal with everyone who gets that plot in the future leaving as well because it will always be a dud. Its just going to create dead zones and encourage the jockeying you suggested without providing any value to anyone but the lucky people to get a good or great claim. It's more likely to create frustration in everyone else than anything else.
The fourth part, part of that is going to be there I think. I recall hearing about a single person claim expanding through however many phases so you get a larger area to build on personally.
They mentioned something about maybe implementing cooperative claims I think, like maybe where you group your personal claim up with your buddies and build a village or with your guild to make a small city, but i think that's it. But its all opt-in. I hadn't heard anything about a CCS, but i wouldn't want it to go that far anyway. Keep the claim connections personal, with guild being the farthest it goes.
I'm still mulling over things but I'll try to write things out.
I'm glad others have already brought up points that have also been on my mind.
Though I'm not sure what this will look/play like, this seems reasonable to me.
Also consider whole-zone RTS-style base-building. Maybe in that style but with random variations.
-
Other thoughts:
-
I like starting with a frame, but I'm concerned about starting with a light frame.
- The game is being sold as being quite "mecha", and this is confusing or a turn-off.
- Starting as a pilot is reasonable to me as long as it's 10 minutes to combat and 30 to a frame, but if it's 30 to a light frame but longer to a medium or heavy then that's a frustration to mecha players.
- It makes light seem like a "beginner frame" when it's just as capable as any other but it has a different toolkit and play style.
-
I concede to broader appeal and withdraw my concern about varying gameplay attracting a wider audience.
As long as that varying gameplay does not too significantly impact on the primary spirit of Firefall-like core gameplay I will begrudgingly wade through reasonably-short or reasonably-optional (i.e. "low friction") mechanics I dislike to get more people to play with.
People being taken away from the things I like to attract a wider audience will bring more people to the things I like; I get that now.
I hope that people aren't encouraged to idle in their claim. I'd like to see more people idle in a shared area to demonstrate the larger player base.
-
I have lore concerns regarding why claims exist.
They don't make sense to me either from a lore perspective or from a "realism" perspective. They are only positioned as being useful from a non-lore our-world marketing/mechanics/whatever perspective. I posted elsewhere for help.
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/lore-and-theme-clarification.2283/
-
I have some concerns from the perspective of asocial gamers.
An earlier "request board", which @Abyssalrider reminded us on Discord of, feels like a good direction to go in, but I have to think more about the topic from this perspective.
I hope to not be an asocial player, but I'm going to bulldog for this perspective because it is too easily overlooked.
I'm glad others have already brought up points that have also been on my mind.
Though I'm not sure what this will look/play like, this seems reasonable to me.
Also consider whole-zone RTS-style base-building. Maybe in that style but with random variations.
-
Other thoughts:
-
I like starting with a frame, but I'm concerned about starting with a light frame.
- The game is being sold as being quite "mecha", and this is confusing or a turn-off.
- Starting as a pilot is reasonable to me as long as it's 10 minutes to combat and 30 to a frame, but if it's 30 to a light frame but longer to a medium or heavy then that's a frustration to mecha players.
- It makes light seem like a "beginner frame" when it's just as capable as any other but it has a different toolkit and play style.
-
I concede to broader appeal and withdraw my concern about varying gameplay attracting a wider audience.
As long as that varying gameplay does not too significantly impact on the primary spirit of Firefall-like core gameplay I will begrudgingly wade through reasonably-short or reasonably-optional (i.e. "low friction") mechanics I dislike to get more people to play with.
People being taken away from the things I like to attract a wider audience will bring more people to the things I like; I get that now.
I hope that people aren't encouraged to idle in their claim. I'd like to see more people idle in a shared area to demonstrate the larger player base.
-
I have lore concerns regarding why claims exist.
They don't make sense to me either from a lore perspective or from a "realism" perspective. They are only positioned as being useful from a non-lore our-world marketing/mechanics/whatever perspective. I posted elsewhere for help.
https://forums.em8er.com/threads/lore-and-theme-clarification.2283/
-
I have some concerns from the perspective of asocial gamers.
An earlier "request board", which @Abyssalrider reminded us on Discord of, feels like a good direction to go in, but I have to think more about the topic from this perspective.
I hope to not be an asocial player, but I'm going to bulldog for this perspective because it is too easily overlooked.
I'm a bit confused by this.
If you and 5 of your friends all buy Em8er and start the game together it will take 30 minutes of what? before you can get together with your friends In the multiplayer zone?
Example-
5 FF veterans
"Hey let's all go THMPin in the brand new spiritual successor to FF!
YEA!
But wait, we have to do 30 minutes of **something** first?"
Maybe I missed some new info about this?
I can't tell you how many games that the first time I played it, even if I was satisfied with it, I turned it off in less than 30 minutes.
I personally think that this is primarily a social game. If a bunch of new players whos only desire is to play together have to wait 30 minutes just to play together it may turn many off.
Then again, I may be missing some new info about these new 10/30 start times.
Another personal thought-
If not given a choice of starting frame, the light frame I am given will always be looked at as a "starter" frame or the weakest frame. If I have to play the game so I can eventually work my way up to a heavy frame, then that heavy frame must be better than the light frame. Or why even strive for it?
I personally think if not given a choice why not start with the Medium? Then going to a light or heavy will not be viewed as any frame being better than the other.
If you and 5 of your friends all buy Em8er and start the game together it will take 30 minutes of what? before you can get together with your friends In the multiplayer zone?
Example-
5 FF veterans
"Hey let's all go THMPin in the brand new spiritual successor to FF!
YEA!
But wait, we have to do 30 minutes of **something** first?"
Maybe I missed some new info about this?
I can't tell you how many games that the first time I played it, even if I was satisfied with it, I turned it off in less than 30 minutes.
I personally think that this is primarily a social game. If a bunch of new players whos only desire is to play together have to wait 30 minutes just to play together it may turn many off.
Then again, I may be missing some new info about these new 10/30 start times.
Another personal thought-
If not given a choice of starting frame, the light frame I am given will always be looked at as a "starter" frame or the weakest frame. If I have to play the game so I can eventually work my way up to a heavy frame, then that heavy frame must be better than the light frame. Or why even strive for it?
I personally think if not given a choice why not start with the Medium? Then going to a light or heavy will not be viewed as any frame being better than the other.
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I think there needs to be a way as an example with time to create the item. The shooter player could say need it in 1 hours, however the crafter player may say its going to be 2 hours and they eventually both agree on 1.5 hours and accept.
Don't think should be banned what if it was something like this:
1) A notice appears reminding crafter to watch the time
2) Going over the time would put a notice to the shooter player
3) Players can discuss if time extension is require and shooter player can accept or decline
4) If decline then whatever has been paid would be transferred back to shooter player or until crafter player has enough which is transferred automatically.
5) If the extension for work is accepted then crafter gets more time to finish the work
6) If crafters fail to craft, then a rep reliability number could show a percentage of crafting completion near the player e.g.
Crafter A 99% Rep and Crafter B 65% Rep in this case most would feel confident with Crafter A
Rep score could take into account the speed of the work done, and the complexity of work too.
This way you don't really penalize players but they have to improve to get a better score!
I am guessing this is the average time it could take to complete the event.
The time range could change depending on the difficulty and how many players are involved.
So could the time range be anything from as an example
Time to thump 5 - 15 mins
Multiplayer Events 20 - 40 mins
Would it be possible to have your own claimstake and advanced it to its max and still be able to join in others Advanced group claim stakes or even Guild?
Then i also think eventually you might want to rent out the claimstake to folks who are new or they could decide to buy it from you and then you could sell them and transfer it all or could be selective.
What i mean by selective e.g is that you may sell them the land and the base, but you could keep the table inside.
Don't think should be banned what if it was something like this:
1) A notice appears reminding crafter to watch the time
2) Going over the time would put a notice to the shooter player
3) Players can discuss if time extension is require and shooter player can accept or decline
4) If decline then whatever has been paid would be transferred back to shooter player or until crafter player has enough which is transferred automatically.
5) If the extension for work is accepted then crafter gets more time to finish the work
6) If crafters fail to craft, then a rep reliability number could show a percentage of crafting completion near the player e.g.
Crafter A 99% Rep and Crafter B 65% Rep in this case most would feel confident with Crafter A
Rep score could take into account the speed of the work done, and the complexity of work too.
This way you don't really penalize players but they have to improve to get a better score!
I am guessing this is the average time it could take to complete the event.
The time range could change depending on the difficulty and how many players are involved.
So could the time range be anything from as an example
Time to thump 5 - 15 mins
Multiplayer Events 20 - 40 mins
Would it be possible to have your own claimstake and advanced it to its max and still be able to join in others Advanced group claim stakes or even Guild?
Then i also think eventually you might want to rent out the claimstake to folks who are new or they could decide to buy it from you and then you could sell them and transfer it all or could be selective.
What i mean by selective e.g is that you may sell them the land and the base, but you could keep the table inside.
Here's the original system I was basing this off of. In Phantasy Star Online, there's a board system inside the player housing. And ALL crafting takes place on this one board, which is why i'm having to hack together some caveats.
A is a Crafter, specifically in Spells.
B is A's buddy, and knows he makes them.
B can post in A's board that he wants an Explosion Spell and pays the resource cost for it and some game currency.
A goes to his board and directly crafts the Explosion Spell from the Order. A never sees the resources or the finished product, but gets crafting XP and the game currencies instead.
B recieves the craft in the mail. The craft can be a Great Success, where it gains special mods, or just a Success where he gets just the base item.
They never actually have to talk, but since they're buddies I suppose they can.
The system I mentioned would be one where you never actually have to talk to Gunman if you didn't want to and I baked in some customizing if they allow that in the final crafting system.
But yeah, there's two problems.
1 is physicalized crafting and how to integrate work orders into that, which I tried somewhat. You just take the crate and simulate the process by running the crate through it instead of raw materials.
2 is publicizing the entire thing. Which is where the penalty for not doing the work in a timely manner comes from. If you take a public work order, then I think there needs to be a deterrent for failing to do it in a timely manner because someone is counting on you, you promised by taking the order, and no one else can take and turn in that order while you have it.
This system won't preclude you talking to a crafter directly and placing a personal work order as opposed to a public one; which is where your alterations seem to be going. But in that case, I'd probably make Shooterman go to Gunman's homestead and post the order on his board directly instead of remaining in the "Fighting World" and continuing to hunt. That way there's a tug between "I know Gunman can make this eventually and is going to log in in an hour or so." and "I want this ASAP. Someone please make it."
A is a Crafter, specifically in Spells.
B is A's buddy, and knows he makes them.
B can post in A's board that he wants an Explosion Spell and pays the resource cost for it and some game currency.
A goes to his board and directly crafts the Explosion Spell from the Order. A never sees the resources or the finished product, but gets crafting XP and the game currencies instead.
B recieves the craft in the mail. The craft can be a Great Success, where it gains special mods, or just a Success where he gets just the base item.
They never actually have to talk, but since they're buddies I suppose they can.
The system I mentioned would be one where you never actually have to talk to Gunman if you didn't want to and I baked in some customizing if they allow that in the final crafting system.
But yeah, there's two problems.
1 is physicalized crafting and how to integrate work orders into that, which I tried somewhat. You just take the crate and simulate the process by running the crate through it instead of raw materials.
2 is publicizing the entire thing. Which is where the penalty for not doing the work in a timely manner comes from. If you take a public work order, then I think there needs to be a deterrent for failing to do it in a timely manner because someone is counting on you, you promised by taking the order, and no one else can take and turn in that order while you have it.
This system won't preclude you talking to a crafter directly and placing a personal work order as opposed to a public one; which is where your alterations seem to be going. But in that case, I'd probably make Shooterman go to Gunman's homestead and post the order on his board directly instead of remaining in the "Fighting World" and continuing to hunt. That way there's a tug between "I know Gunman can make this eventually and is going to log in in an hour or so." and "I want this ASAP. Someone please make it."