Could be made more dynamic with random enemy spawn-location, so it would at least take longer for the players to get used to patterns and would not become repetitive too fast. Randomize objective locations, as well. Stuff like that. But, that's just the first-step. Need more diversity, both in quest and in global events. The latter should have more elements and stages to it that could be tweaked to give a slightly different experience every time.
I think the widespread use of the word "quest" often leads people to very in-the-box thinking in terms of content. Not everything is a quest; a quest is a grand, overarcing, epic journey to achieve some great, unreachable goal. Some things are tasks, chores, jobs, missions, or just plain ol' situations. That said, my biggest request for Ember is for content, especially random or procedural, to MAKE SOME SENSE. That's all. Just...a little sanity in terms of placement, behavior and reasoning.
Likes:
Ronyn and Aphaz
Quests/stories makes the game meaningful with a purpose for example hiding from npc until they are out of sight to plant a
hacking device to sneak past the control tower to the next region etc.
I always like the story jack in the beanstalk no idea why maybe because a bean turned into a massive stalk
anyways i think quests and a good story makes the game so much more enjoyable i want to experience the adventure
through the story/quests and feel part of it
hacking device to sneak past the control tower to the next region etc.
I always like the story jack in the beanstalk no idea why maybe because a bean turned into a massive stalk
anyways i think quests and a good story makes the game so much more enjoyable i want to experience the adventure
through the story/quests and feel part of it
Likes:
MattHunX
Would still be boring
What we need are events with clear consequences like invasions that actually destroy bases/cities if not stopped, the lack of consequence removes all the sense of immersion and priority
"oh we failed? whatever"
Also more handcrafted and admin controlled events, and no im not talking about the super lame Firefall events where a dev controlled mob with near infinite health would fly all over the map in incredible speed so 90% of the event was basically people running in circles trying to follow it.
Im talking about a dev controlled giant monster that actually tries his best to outsmart and outplay the players, this would create a real sense of emergency and challenge
Of course these events can't pop out of nowhere, the players need to be prepared, which would also generate hype and make everything more exciting, these events need to be anounced by NPCs "intercepting enemy info" or "detecting the invasion" somehow.
What we need are events with clear consequences like invasions that actually destroy bases/cities if not stopped, the lack of consequence removes all the sense of immersion and priority
"oh we failed? whatever"
Also more handcrafted and admin controlled events, and no im not talking about the super lame Firefall events where a dev controlled mob with near infinite health would fly all over the map in incredible speed so 90% of the event was basically people running in circles trying to follow it.
Im talking about a dev controlled giant monster that actually tries his best to outsmart and outplay the players, this would create a real sense of emergency and challenge
Of course these events can't pop out of nowhere, the players need to be prepared, which would also generate hype and make everything more exciting, these events need to be anounced by NPCs "intercepting enemy info" or "detecting the invasion" somehow.
Quests/stories makes the game meaningful with a purpose for example hiding from npc until they are out of sight to plant a
hacking device to sneak past the control tower to the next region etc.
I always like the story jack in the beanstalk no idea why maybe because a bean turned into a massive stalk
anyways i think quests and a good story makes the game so much more enjoyable i want to experience the adventure
through the story/quests and feel part of it
hacking device to sneak past the control tower to the next region etc.
I always like the story jack in the beanstalk no idea why maybe because a bean turned into a massive stalk
anyways i think quests and a good story makes the game so much more enjoyable i want to experience the adventure
through the story/quests and feel part of it
I came back to FireFall after a year and a half and because of all the changes i had to restart things from Copacabana and run through the tutorials and the story mission. A story I didn't even knew existed, really. Might have been my own laziness, not checking the lore, but never mind. I was pleasantly surprised by the single mission that had the player sneaking through a base, disguising themselves as a crate via hologram. It was a break from the game's norm, but that's as far as one can go with stealth in FireFall.
I may be remembering a different game that had some perk that made damage to unsuspecting foes higher (on the first shot, at least). When are foes not aware of you? They almost always instantly notice you, even if you're standing on a cliff above them. You cannot sneak past a group of enemies, even if all of them have their backs turned.
I strongly feel their needs to be an awareness/stealth meter for the players and the npcs. Also, stages of alertness. (Once, again...take elements from other games.)
Unaware
Neutral (aware but not concerned with you, either you're not doing anything suspicious or they're preoccupied with someone or something else, having their own fight, even)
Suspicious (short period of time, under which one can move on and away to not start a fight)
Alert (in the red)
Different reputation levels should play into how quickly members of a faction would grew suspicious of you and engage you.
Different creatures should have wildly different levels of aggressiveness. Docile creatures would only attack if attacked. Some could even flee. Predators, depending on their size, attributes (and even classification - brute, agile, stalker, charger, rabid, cautious...etc.) should either have varying suspicion meters and should turn hostile either slowly or immediately. These could also attempt to flee when seriously injured or outnumbered by players. A few could be smarter. Know when to leave a fight or have different ways of avoiding attacks and attacking players. But, a lot of them would fight until death, too.
This would add another element to quests. To do them in different ways. Discreetly or guns blazing.
Could've started a new thread, but my problem is quest/mission/job related.
And I'll bump the thread, at least.
Problem: Waypoints and predetermined routes.
Today, I was reminded how annoying it is, when I either approach a mission area or trying to leave it, after the mission. The game gives me waypoints to follow and while some missions complete, even if I ignore those and shows up back in front of the quest-giver, I have run into a few where I went back and was surprised why I couldn't turn a mission in. Because I forgot to leave the scene through a preset route that the game absolutely needed to establish for me, through a series of waypoints. This is irritating, as it involves back-tracking and is ultimately wasting the player's time. This element in a mission doesn't show up very often, but it is something that need not to be added in Ember.
Also, by not having such predetermined waypoints or simply have them be wider, the operative can just show up in the general area of a mission and be free to approach the objective of the mission or leave, once it is done, as they please.
And I'll bump the thread, at least.
Problem: Waypoints and predetermined routes.
Today, I was reminded how annoying it is, when I either approach a mission area or trying to leave it, after the mission. The game gives me waypoints to follow and while some missions complete, even if I ignore those and shows up back in front of the quest-giver, I have run into a few where I went back and was surprised why I couldn't turn a mission in. Because I forgot to leave the scene through a preset route that the game absolutely needed to establish for me, through a series of waypoints. This is irritating, as it involves back-tracking and is ultimately wasting the player's time. This element in a mission doesn't show up very often, but it is something that need not to be added in Ember.
Also, by not having such predetermined waypoints or simply have them be wider, the operative can just show up in the general area of a mission and be free to approach the objective of the mission or leave, once it is done, as they please.
If quest or story driven mission, then it must be instanced. It's kinda stupid to have some (specific) quest in a open world.
You accepted a quest to follow a npc and as soon you leave the base, the quest failed because that said npc was either killed by an random world encounter or I was bombing that area for the lulz.
Sneaky stuff is not really practical (unless invisible) in open world either. Yer hiding behind a tree (or what ever) and an random player attack the enemys you wanna sneak past or I got trigger happy and alerted the enemy, thus mostly revealing your position.
Or worst, as most quest, an certain enemy or item won't show up until quest is accepted. Accept an "clear mine from enemy" quest and boom, a bunch of enemies shows up in that mine, which happens to be occupied by other players. Boom you nearly insta failed the quest, because you weren't present or participated in the said mine.
Random encounter and world events are quest enough.
Like someone mentioned, event failure need consequences, harsh consequences.
A minor event pop up where we need to clean a area from rabbits, because 2 or 3 people weren't fast/strong enough, it turned into a major event. Those rabbits swarm intelligence decided to attack the nearest base. There, more players joining up attacking the mobs and preping the base defences. But because the half or more were wasting time at that said base and the majority of the other got mowed by the rabbit, it turned into an world event as soon tge rabbits reached the base. Now we need to protect it with everything we got, which happens to fail because idiots, afk, orwhatever.
Base is lost, no more teleport or fast travel to that base.
Btw good luck reclaiming that base, those bloody rabbits are more likely to use it as a breeding nest.
You accepted a quest to follow a npc and as soon you leave the base, the quest failed because that said npc was either killed by an random world encounter or I was bombing that area for the lulz.
Sneaky stuff is not really practical (unless invisible) in open world either. Yer hiding behind a tree (or what ever) and an random player attack the enemys you wanna sneak past or I got trigger happy and alerted the enemy, thus mostly revealing your position.
Or worst, as most quest, an certain enemy or item won't show up until quest is accepted. Accept an "clear mine from enemy" quest and boom, a bunch of enemies shows up in that mine, which happens to be occupied by other players. Boom you nearly insta failed the quest, because you weren't present or participated in the said mine.
Random encounter and world events are quest enough.
Like someone mentioned, event failure need consequences, harsh consequences.
A minor event pop up where we need to clean a area from rabbits, because 2 or 3 people weren't fast/strong enough, it turned into a major event. Those rabbits swarm intelligence decided to attack the nearest base. There, more players joining up attacking the mobs and preping the base defences. But because the half or more were wasting time at that said base and the majority of the other got mowed by the rabbit, it turned into an world event as soon tge rabbits reached the base. Now we need to protect it with everything we got, which happens to fail because idiots, afk, orwhatever.
Base is lost, no more teleport or fast travel to that base.
Btw good luck reclaiming that base, those bloody rabbits are more likely to use it as a breeding nest.
Likes:
Alfonso and Aphaz
I also find it annoying how wandering-encounters or generally job-related objects and NPCs are either spawned right in the way of something (or on something), blocking passage for other AI controlled characters or...they're there, in the game-world, constantly and can only be interacted with when someone is doing that mission. It is immensely immersion-breaking and ruins the feel of the surrounding environment. It's clutter that looks out of place. Well, yeah...equipment and people on an alien planet are out of place by definition, but you know what I mean.
Somehow they should find a way to integrate assignments and the objectives, objects and NPCs involved with them seamlessly into the environment and with other nearby stuff.
It's not a problem if a random-encounter spawns near some job, or is already there before one accepts the jobs, as it adds a sense of randomness (obviously) that may complicate an assignment or make it more interesting by making different enemies cross paths and chaos can ensue. Just don't make objects and NPCs interfere with each other in a way that it breaks an assignment or causes it to fail through no fault on the player's part.
But, I don't know how difficult that would be to develop.
Also, they'll need something different than bright-flash or smoke and poof the mobs are there. That looks silly.
Somehow they should find a way to integrate assignments and the objectives, objects and NPCs involved with them seamlessly into the environment and with other nearby stuff.
It's not a problem if a random-encounter spawns near some job, or is already there before one accepts the jobs, as it adds a sense of randomness (obviously) that may complicate an assignment or make it more interesting by making different enemies cross paths and chaos can ensue. Just don't make objects and NPCs interfere with each other in a way that it breaks an assignment or causes it to fail through no fault on the player's part.
But, I don't know how difficult that would be to develop.
Also, they'll need something different than bright-flash or smoke and poof the mobs are there. That looks silly.
Last edited:
I liked doing BWA before it was nurfed. Places like Antarctica were fun if you had enough players. I can't remember the mission where you had to escort the carts through a cave or the one that had a bunch of snipers all over the cliffs where you had to destroy nodes. The mini missions that randomly popped up were fun too. I'd still like to see a lot of that stuff along with something like tornadoes and baneclaw but with more story line type stuff.
This was my reply to 'evolving AI' thread. This can be used to create a quest. Because this will always happen in less populated area, players will have some lengthy travel too.
I personally prefer open world adventure over deep story. In fact I don't like Witcher series because I can't make my own character and have my own adventure.(but I bought 1 and 2 when they were on sale and waiting for 3 to go on at least 75% )
Ember is MMO. Even if we have a grand story of space adventure, it will get boring eventually. Also, seeing people repeatedly talking about things like 'hey I finally killed XX yesterday' will break immersion. Hey... I thought I killed that guy and saved the universe you know!
My suggestion is, in-game quest creation tool.
It can be anything from 'kill 10 space badgers' to 'save old earth from doom'.
There can be many different types of quest categories and players have to buy components to build quests. More complex quest will need a lot more components thus it will cost more to build.
I will make an example of an escort mission.(this won't be escorting npc, escorting a player) This 'escort category' is one of the cheapest quest to make, only the distance to the destination will determine the cost of making it. Maybe players with less combat proficiency can use this for safe traveling. The reward of completing the quest won't come from the creator, it will be a system reward based on the difficulty.
I personally prefer open world adventure over deep story. In fact I don't like Witcher series because I can't make my own character and have my own adventure.(but I bought 1 and 2 when they were on sale and waiting for 3 to go on at least 75% )
Ember is MMO. Even if we have a grand story of space adventure, it will get boring eventually. Also, seeing people repeatedly talking about things like 'hey I finally killed XX yesterday' will break immersion. Hey... I thought I killed that guy and saved the universe you know!
My suggestion is, in-game quest creation tool.
It can be anything from 'kill 10 space badgers' to 'save old earth from doom'.
There can be many different types of quest categories and players have to buy components to build quests. More complex quest will need a lot more components thus it will cost more to build.
I will make an example of an escort mission.(this won't be escorting npc, escorting a player) This 'escort category' is one of the cheapest quest to make, only the distance to the destination will determine the cost of making it. Maybe players with less combat proficiency can use this for safe traveling. The reward of completing the quest won't come from the creator, it will be a system reward based on the difficulty.
Last edited:
Likes:
MattHunX
Like the idea of making even something as simple as escort assignments have utility beyond the small or scaled reward they'd give.
But, leave the badgers alone!
The thing I disliked in the Witcher games was the horribly clunky combat. Felt awkward and sluggish. 2 didn't improve at all over the first game. And from what I saw, neither did the 3rd game.
Also, this to the developers:
I think we're all trying to avoid using the words "quest" and other things. So, what should the doable stuff be called. I vote "assignment" "job" or "task". Simple, but it already has a different ring to it than "quest". Zone or global events? Incursion?
But, leave the badgers alone!
The thing I disliked in the Witcher games was the horribly clunky combat. Felt awkward and sluggish. 2 didn't improve at all over the first game. And from what I saw, neither did the 3rd game.
Also, this to the developers:
I think we're all trying to avoid using the words "quest" and other things. So, what should the doable stuff be called. I vote "assignment" "job" or "task". Simple, but it already has a different ring to it than "quest". Zone or global events? Incursion?
What could be done to make enemies predictable as little as possible, though? (Don't mean their attacks and telegraphing, the latter's fine.) During jobs and events.
What I mean by e.g.: randomizing spawn-locations is that players wouldn't be able to exploit and spam lingering AoE abilities (Remote Explosive, pool of flame, snot-puddle) to a known spawn location and watch as the effects kill of the mobs before the AI even takes a step. So we'd seldom know in advance where the attacks would come from.
Of course there would only be a limited amount of directions and spots enemies could appear advance from, but with the Tsihu being technologically advanced and phasing in and out of time, who's to say they couldn't do it willingly. Mixing up their attacks. Be all around the place. Even their bigger, heavier units, their Kaijus, could literally drop in on us, smack in the middle of a firefight, from a flash of lightning.
What I mean by e.g.: randomizing spawn-locations is that players wouldn't be able to exploit and spam lingering AoE abilities (Remote Explosive, pool of flame, snot-puddle) to a known spawn location and watch as the effects kill of the mobs before the AI even takes a step. So we'd seldom know in advance where the attacks would come from.
Of course there would only be a limited amount of directions and spots enemies could appear advance from, but with the Tsihu being technologically advanced and phasing in and out of time, who's to say they couldn't do it willingly. Mixing up their attacks. Be all around the place. Even their bigger, heavier units, their Kaijus, could literally drop in on us, smack in the middle of a firefight, from a flash of lightning.
As much as I hated tOR, they did do one thing really well and that was their unique instance generation. Without "leaving" the main map or having any sort of loading screen their game could split players off into unique instances. The location could be as small as a single room and 50 people could enter that room but once you passed that blue field you were in your own unique instance. I think something like that would work really well for Ember. Dynamic events interspersed with specific quests that sent you into small side instances as needed.
In fact you could perhaps even make it so the unique instance only happens if you are actually ON the quest for that area, if you aren't then there would be no "blue horizon" to pass over and you would still be in the open world so dynamic events could actually utilize the same locations as specific quest lines.
In fact you could perhaps even make it so the unique instance only happens if you are actually ON the quest for that area, if you aren't then there would be no "blue horizon" to pass over and you would still be in the open world so dynamic events could actually utilize the same locations as specific quest lines.