Discussion - The Skin Toggle Button

[Ronyn]

I have debunked and disproved all of your points, and provided with better alternatives with more solid counter-arguments and history of a previously perfectly fine and working gaming history.

I am aware that you believe that.

Let me tell you how I see it. Throughout this conversation, when you weren't just ignoring answers that you didnt like, you have consistently mistaken the subjective with objective, equated parental controls with censorship, conflated offering players choice as somehow an SJW mentality, presented your personal opinion as if it's a larger held preference, disregarded the viewpoints of paying customers who see things differently than you so you could present yourself as standing up for paying costumers, and confused the idea of a new feature that we hope is useful to some folks, with us acting like it's some kind of make or break thing.

I will admit that I learned a lesson in this discussion, but I can guarantee it was not the one you wanted me to learn.

I
Now, I'm asking what else it takes for Crixa to consider the complete removal of this button?

Once again, I've already answered that at least twice. I know you don't like the answer, but it is the answer. and that was....
If and when the time comes that a lot of people voice that they have a problem with this, we will re examine it. I acknowledge that is possible, it's also possible that it will go over just fine or that few will notice or care.

No matter what else is said, the ONLY thing that matters is whether this feature is taken as a good thing or a bad thing by a large enough group of people. The only way to know for sure how that goes, is to let that future come.

Be the player,

I already told you what my perspective is as a player, as a guy who buys a lot of skins.
----

We might as well just agree to disagree here.
You know as well as I do this isn't going anywhere.

 

[Mahdi]

“Let me tell you how I see it. Throughout this conversation, when you weren't just ignoring answers that you didnt like, you have consistently mistaken the subjective with objective, equated parental controls with censorship, conflated offering players choice as somehow an SJW mentality, presented your personal opinion as if it's a larger held preference, disregarded the viewpoints of paying customers who see things differently than you so you could present yourself as standing up for paying costumers, and confused the idea of a new feature that we hope is useful to some folks, with us acting like it's some kind of make or break thing.”

“You know as well as I do this isn't going anywhere.”

Except to cellar…

 

[Pandagnome]

At any rate, people can be offended by anything and in todays culture they easily are, and with that logic it'd be impossible to make a game. It's their choice if they want to play or not, just as it is yours and mine. I do not believe the lack of this button would present a major issue because this button has never existed in another game before

There is no other game that has this feature

That's true some folks can even be offended by certain things. Since this so called button is something that is not the norm would be trialed to see how others feel about it with the feedback to give a clearer indication to decide on the outcome.

For instance... Planetside 2 is a 1st person shooter. In some vehicles you can go to 3rd person but when you're out gunning with your light assault or medic or whatever, you never get to see your bought character skins. Planetside 2 is a prime example of reason nr2 where you buy a skin to look badass to others.

There are more than just pilot skins such as Mek skins, pet skins and so on however we do see more pilot skins currently.

As we are specifically focusing on the pilot then i'd say be nice to have different suit grade types to play in.

Perhaps have a way to deconstruct the frame into a backpack and construct in front of you when required.

When i say suit grade i mean something like Mk1 suit to Mk3 suit with some differences. The frames will be the best to survive, however i'd certainly want to play in my Mek as well as my pilot form too.

If we take much damage that the frame is wrecked, i think instead of a mek drop down it could be a backpack perhaps for the lightframe.

this de-sexualization should still --> NOT <-- remove player's customizations to their skins, instead, add an underlying layer of clothing like a spandex suit, the G-Suit is already there, use that!

Might look odd if for example a bikini set is on top of the G-suit if i understood you right.
Then again super heroes do wear their pants on top

However if it is the other way round then it is the same as the button that most likely
default to the G-suit.

what makes it more right to add it instead of leaving it out?
I'm on the consumer/customer's side, where they should have to power to display the things they pay for, as they paid.
It appears that Crixa is not.

We should let the other consumers decide that, each of our views on this subject could vary who knows it could be a winner?

Nobody knows, but at least I know that the lack of this button hasn't been an issue before, but maybe it will if it does once people realize their paid skins and customizations are being nulled with a button.

Do we all really know or do we imagine what we would like to know?
Their paid skin is still visible the only thing may be that certain players can decide what they would like to see to benefit their experience.

I want to pay for the skins, it is my way of showing support for the efforts. I have, and I will continue to do so if you walk the right path in this development. This is why I'm fighting for the removal of this button, because I want to support. But if my customizations gets redundant, devalued, or considered unimportant because everyone can just toggle off what I have spent time and effort into making with a switch, then you won't get my support

Many of us are doing our part and i am sure Crixa are appreciative of our support.
Before we jump to conclusions give them a chance to show and then decide after we have received enough information.

I said the same to Pandagnome, "Planetside 2 is a prime example of reason nr2 where you buy a skin to look badass to others." - because it's a 1st person shooter... You barely get to enjoy the things you paid for but you know you look nice to everyone else.

I like to look nice for myself personally some don't like my look, but i am happy with what i see.
If others decide to switch the look of my customization to default then that doesn't bother me because i am sure there will be those that will like to see my customization as well.

 

[liandri]

The virgin "making my character look cool for other people"

The chad "making my character look cool for me"

Let other people see what they want. I'll dress up in my skeleton-print geesuit because I think it's neat.

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

I want to dress my character up to look like a male teacher, with absurdly huge breasts and long hair!

What exactly is this magical button supposed to do anyway? The current iteration as we know it.

Is it just for the revealing clothing? Or is there more to it?


How exactly do you de-sexualise a skin? When different people find different things sexy.

And with the Mona-Lisa example, you could use that same example for and against the idea right?

Because you could simply look away from those skins or pay little attention to them. And if they really are SEXUAL enough that they require a button to turn them off… then should those skins even exist?

“Well that side boobage is a little too much for my liking, going to flick the button… but wait, now there’s not enough butt!”

 

[Pandagnome]

I'll dress up in my skeleton-print geesuit because I think it's neat.

I like to see this with a skeleton matching pet skin too!

“Well that side boobage is a little too much for my liking, going to flick the button… but wait, now there’s not enough butt!”

What if the area can change depending on the pilots movement like a bicep flex



Radar pulsing attack ears when you need to stay cool and hear better.

I want to dress my character up to look like a male teacher, with absurdly huge breasts and long hair!

That button could come in handy

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

I like to see this with a skeleton matching pet skin too!




What if the area can change depending on the pilots movement like a bicep flex
View attachment 5502

View attachment 5503
Radar attack ears when you need to stay cool and hear better.




That button could come in handy

Yes the button could come in handy in this scenario. Or perhaps we should just not have the skin in the first place.

Figure out where we draw the line, remove the button. Some people don’t like the colour orange, should we have a button for cancelling the colour orange?

 

[Pandagnome]

Yes the button could come in handy in this scenario. Or perhaps we should just not have the skin in the first place.

Figure out where we draw the line, remove the button. Some people don’t like the colour orange, should we have a button for cancelling the colour orange?

If we remove the button we do not consider some others whom may take benefit on this function.
There could be a possibility that it may reduce the amount of fans/player base from other walks of life.

With colours lets say there are few consideration i can think of such as:

- Color blind (some may prefer orange to see depending on what type of colour blindness they have)
- Chromophobia (Fear of certain colour(s) it is an issue for some and may prefer another color
- Preference and psychological (Bright colours tend to be more impactful, exciting while others may not feel the same way depending on the individual)

What i really like to know from everyone's view in the community is what are the pros and cons for the button and for not having the button?

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

If we remove the button we do not consider some others whom may take benefit on this function.
There could be a possibility that it may reduce the amount of fans/player base from other walks of life.

With colours lets say there are few consideration i can think of such as:

- Color blind (some may prefer orange to see depending on what type of colour blindness they have)
- Chromophobia (Fear of certain colour(s) it is an issue for some and may prefer another color
- Preference and psychological (Bright colours tend to be more impactful, exciting while others may not feel the same way depending on the individual)

What i really like to know from everyone's view in the community is what are the pros and cons for the button and for not having the button?

The reason I was using colour as a comparison, was not because of people who are colour-blind. But rather, because of people's preferences and tastes towards styles (Which would be the overarching topic here right?). People won't use the button to remove sexualized skins because of a condition they have, they'll do it because they prefer not to see the revealing skins. It's a preference.

My questions are this; What happens specifically when we turn this button on/off?

If the reason is to de-sexualize skins, then how do we consider what is too sexy and what is not? As everybody has preferences.

 

[Ronyn]

...

If you don't know how it works I will explain a bit.
And I can understand if you didnt want to read this whole thread. lol

The concept is straight forward-

Em-8er has a "baseline" or "default" look for the pilots. Something that represents the "standard" look of them, and fits the game in terms of style, tone, lore and flavor. This is where the designers and artist have defined what "Em-8er" looks like, at it's heart.

Then we have a variety of skins that move further and further away from that baseline, even to the point of pushing the envelope in one form or another. Whether it be in extra level of sexiness, or levels of goofiness, or just stuff that is outside of what make sense for the lore. This is where the designers and artist get to stretch their legs a bit, do some experimental stuff, things like that.

Then we have a series of filters (not just one button lol), that the player can choose to use to avoid seeing whichever aspects of the "non-default" stuff there is.

A person may have any variety of reasons as to why they don't want to see something. Could be a parent choosing what level of sexiness they allow for their children, could be a player who just doesn't want to see things that are outside of lore, could be some outfits reminds somebody of their ex. lol. We aren't here to judge!

The underlying idea is to really lean into personal choice. Let the artists stretch their wings, let the players choose what they look like, and then let the players choose what they look at. Be sexy, be serious, be silly, be whatever. And then SEE whatever. It's all about being up to you.

So far it's been well received by most, we shall see if it continues to be over time.

Either way it's the system we are aiming at currently, and we think it fits our vibe perfectly.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

If you don't know how it works I will explain a bit.
And I can understand if you didnt want to read this whole thread. lol

The concept is straight forward-

Em-8er has a "baseline" or "default" look for the pilots. Something that represents the "standard" look of them, and fits the game in terms of style, tone, lore and flavor. This is where the designers and artist have defined what "Em-8er" looks like, at it's heart.

Then we have a variety of skins that move further and further away from that baseline, even to the point of pushing the envelope in one form or another. Whether it be in extra level of sexiness, or levels of goofiness, or just stuff that is outside of what make sense for the lore. This is where the designers and artist get to stretch their legs a bit, do some experimental stuff, things like that.

Then we have a series of filters (not just one button lol), that the player can choose to use to avoid seeing whichever aspects of the "non-default" stuff there is.

A person may have any variety of reasons as to why they don't want to see something. Could be a parent choosing what level of sexiness they allow for their children, could be a player who just doesn't want to see things that are outside of lore, could be some outfits reminds somebody of their ex. lol. We aren't here to judge!

The underlying idea is to really lean into personal choice. Let the artists stretch their wings, let the players choose what they look like, and then let the players choose what they look at. Be sexy, be serious, be silly, be whatever. And then SEE whatever. It's all about being up to you.

So far it's been well received by most, we shall see if it continues to be over time.

Either way it's the system we are aiming at currently, and we think it fits our vibe perfectly.

To your previous reply, I will reply with one simple question... Do you understand that people spend their money to be seen in the things they've paid for?


And to "this" reply, I will ask you this...
How much will our character skins be visible to ourselves and others?

According to current art and design...
Heavy Frames will cover 100% of the character.
We don't need the button here, the Frame does the job already.

Medium Frame covers 90% of the back of your character, and since you'll always aim at the enemy you won't ever see the front of the pilot seat where the character is somewhat visible... Not to mention that the character keeps turning away from the camera, it's near impossible to see anyone else or my own skins in this Frame, speaking from experience playing the current builds where I barely saw the pilot of another player in their Medium Frame.
Personally I don't think I'll ever have to time to ghost someone in the wild just to inspect whatever skin they might be using. The button isn't needed here either.

Light Frame covers about 80% of the character, and the character still turns away from the camera. But I guess you could at least spot what skin other people use in this frame if they focus hard enough.
Eeehh, possibly. But I wouldn't care, and not everyone will play a Light Frame either.

Ontop of all this, we're gonna be busy with exploration, battle, quests, UI's, you name it... So at which point are we gonna see the skins exactly? In the social areas?... Well great, if we're in the social areas, is having a Neko skin gonna be that bad that we need a button to nullify what others have paid for or spent their time into making it look cool?

Same question - different game...
What happens if Rockstar decided to add this button to remove customizations in GTA-5?

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

A page from Ashes of Creation... Please note what's written in the small text below:
"it's going to be situational where the default appearance will be applied and can be activated "

This is a tradeoff I'd be willing to accept.
Users and moderators in Ashes of Creation's Discord has also confirmed that this was intended for PERFORMANCE issues, which is a whole other argument. But the fact remains that this option can only be active under situational conditions... Like low framerates, it's clear that it won't be active everywhere.

"Cosmetics, whether purchased from the shop or earned in game, are an important component of MMORPGS I personally enjoy; and there's a lot of collectors out there who spend a great deal of time either in-game achieving these things or spend money purchasing them from the cosmetic only marketplace; and we don't want to demean or reduce that achievement or that expenditure. "

EXACLTY AS I'VE BEEN SAYING, isn't that funny? xD
The creator of which game Grummz has drawn inspiration from as a successful indie game, says the exact same thing that I've been telling you guys...
So if you don't listen to me, do you listen to Steven?

I'm actually about to cry because finally there's a decent person out there that speaks my words, and it's no other than the creator of Ashes himself. A 100 pound weight was just lifted off my chest.

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

If you don't know how it works I will explain a bit.
And I can understand if you didnt want to read this whole thread. lol

The concept is straight forward-

Em-8er has a "baseline" or "default" look for the pilots. Something that represents the "standard" look of them, and fits the game in terms of style, tone, lore and flavor. This is where the designers and artist have defined what "Em-8er" looks like, at it's heart.

Then we have a variety of skins that move further and further away from that baseline, even to the point of pushing the envelope in one form or another. Whether it be in extra level of sexiness, or levels of goofiness, or just stuff that is outside of what make sense for the lore. This is where the designers and artist get to stretch their legs a bit, do some experimental stuff, things like that.

Then we have a series of filters (not just one button lol), that the player can choose to use to avoid seeing whichever aspects of the "non-default" stuff there is.

A person may have any variety of reasons as to why they don't want to see something. Could be a parent choosing what level of sexiness they allow for their children, could be a player who just doesn't want to see things that are outside of lore, could be some outfits reminds somebody of their ex. lol. We aren't here to judge!

The underlying idea is to really lean into personal choice. Let the artists stretch their wings, let the players choose what they look like, and then let the players choose what they look at. Be sexy, be serious, be silly, be whatever. And then SEE whatever. It's all about being up to you.

So far it's been well received by most, we shall see if it continues to be over time.

Either way it's the system we are aiming at currently, and we think it fits our vibe perfectly.

Thanks for the clear explanation Ronyn, helps a lot.

I understand your description of having a baseline, which sticks to the lore and the theme of the game. And then having skins which orbit that idea, further and further out. Some to the extent that they may need a filter, especially if kids are going to be playing the game too.


But I have to wonder, if a skin becomes so out of touch with the central theme, let's take "sexiness" as an example... at what point does the "sexiness" become worthy of having a toggle?
Short skirt? Bikinis? Penis tattoos? How do the designers decide when it should be marked as "Potentially too sexy, put it in the toggle box." What reasons would they have to give?

And then those reasons which are given, which warrant the skin being too sexy... would they not also be valid enough reasons, to not include the skin altogether?


Or is there some grey area here, where the designers will have to make judgment calls and if there's backlash because the skirt is too short. Then we put the skin into the toggle box?

Not sure why I've jumped into this conversation, it is an interesting one though!

 

[Ronyn]

To your previous reply, I will reply with one simple question... Do you understand that people spend their money to be seen in the things they've paid for?

SOME people, some.

For the last time: People buy skins for a variety of reasons, and it depends on the person.
To see them on themselves, to have other people see them, to match up with friends/parties/teams, to simply support a game even if they don't care about the skin itself, potentially a few other reasons, and any combination of the above.

Speak for others about that again, and it will be ignored.

How much will our character skins be visible to ourselves and others?

Now this is a far question.
It ties into various systems like the frames, that you mentioned, potential social systems, and other potential outside of the frame activities. All I can say on that right now is that we have heard the concerns for this and we are pondering on ways that we may be able to help.

Same question - different game...
What happens if Rockstar decided to add this button to remove customizations in GTA-5?

Let me clarify that into the proper question. Youre asking-
"What happens if Rockstar decided to add a series of toggles to allow people to choose what customizations they see on other people in GTA-5?, even though the big difference there is that is an existing game, in an existing series, that has been out for years without those toggles."

So what is the answer?
Neither you nor I can claim to know the answer to that.

"AOC stuff

No, that's not what you have been saying at all, it's reasoning that you are now misapplying to a
different situation, for a different system, aimed at a different outcome, for a different purpose.

In their system, where it makes your outfit into the default version, isn't a CHOICE for what OTHER PEOPLE see, it's literally changing YOUR OUTFIT, on what YOU, the BUYER, can see.

That said, it makes sense to have a system like that for performance, and I applaud them for understanding and speaking about it publicly.

 

[Ronyn]

But I have to wonder, if a skin becomes so out of touch with the central theme, let's take "sexiness" as an example... at what point does the "sexiness" become worthy of having a toggle?

Yep that is a good question.
We will do our best to break things down into categories, to give as much clarity in the controls as we can.
It's not an exact science nor will it be a perfect system. The goal is that is in improvement on personal choice, not a final solution to end all and be all.

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

Yep that is a good question.
We will do our best to break things down into categories, to give as much clarity in the controls as we can.
It's not an exact science nor will it be a perfect system. The goal is that is in improvement on personal choice, not a final solution to end all and be all.

Yeah makes sense.

I hope it's not too much additional work for the devs, it sounds like the workload for these skins may be doubled.


Personally, I've always seen games as a playground with rules. Here is the map, here are all the skins, here's what you can do... now do with it, what you will. And what happens, is the players adapt to what is available and then a healthy ecosystem comes into existence. Players see one another for what they are, and they judge each other based on the decisions that they make.

I worry... worry might be a strong word, but I can't help but wonder if adding these filters will distort the ecosystem.

The real world is the ultimate game, and we experience it for exactly what it is.

If I put a filter onto my game that blocks out ALL of the SEXY skins, and then I join up with a guild of players who're all wearing very revealing... extremely sexy skins... for whatever reasons they have, and for whatever intentions they may have. I would be none the wiser.

People make decisions based on what they perceive, and if we start turning blind eyes to things by toggling over what we can/can't see, we might make some mistakes or some decisions that we typically would not. We might end up in some circles we would not typically tend to involve ourselves with.

 

[Ronyn]

I hope it's not too much additional work for the devs, it sounds like the workload for these skins may be doubled.

Oh my goodness no.
If we were literally making different versions of each skin it would be, thats not how you tackle something like this.

Personally, I've always seen games as a playground with rules. Here is the map, here are all the skins, here's what you can do... now do with it, what you will. And what happens, is the players adapt to what is available and then a healthy ecosystem comes into existence. Players see one another for what they are, and they judge each other based on the decisions that they make.

I worry... worry might be a strong word, but I can't help but wonder if adding these filters will distort the ecosystem.

The real world is the ultimate game, and we experience it for exactly what it is.

If I put a filter onto my game that blocks out ALL of the SEXY skins, and then I join up with a guild of players who're all wearing very revealing... extremely sexy skins... for whatever reasons they have, and for whatever intentions they may have. I would be none the wiser.

People make decisions based on what they perceive, and if we start turning blind eyes to things by toggling over what we can/can't see, we might make some mistakes or some decisions that we typically would not. We might end up in some circles we would not typically tend to involve ourselves with.

Interesting thought.
A new future of unexcepted, unseen threats.
Though I'd wager, anyone with "no sexy skins" selected, had better examine why a guild would be full of people all in the default skin. lol

 

[ChAzZ_NuT]

Oh my goodness no.
If we were literally making different versions of each skin it would be, thats not how you tackle something like this.


Interesting thought.
A new future of unexcepted, unseen threats.
Though I'd wager, anyone with "no sexy skins" selected, had better examine why a guild would be full of people all in the default skin. lol

*bows* Now time for some tea. Thanks man.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

SOME people, some.

For the last time: People buy skins for a variety of reasons, and it depends on the person.
To see them on themselves, to have other people see them, to match up with friends/parties/teams, to simply support a game even if they don't care about the skin itself, potentially a few other reasons, and any combination of the above.

Speak for others about that again, and it will be ignored.


Now this is a far question.
It ties into various systems like the frames, that you mentioned, potential social systems, and other potential outside of the frame activities. All I can say on that right now is that we have heard the concerns for this and we are pondering on ways that we may be able to help.


Let me clarify that into the proper question. Youre asking-
"What happens if Rockstar decided to add a series of toggles to allow people to choose what customizations they see on other people in GTA-5?, even though the big difference there is that is an existing game, in an existing series, that has been out for years without those toggles."

So what is the answer?
Neither you nor I can claim to know the answer to that.


No, that's not what you have been saying at all, it's reasoning that you are now misapplying to a
different situation, for a different system, aimed at a different outcome, for a different purpose.

In their system, where it makes your outfit into the default version, isn't a CHOICE for what OTHER PEOPLE see, it's literally changing YOUR OUTFIT, on what YOU, the BUYER, can see.

That said, it makes sense to have a system like that for performance, and I applaud them for understanding and speaking about it publicly.

I speak for others because I'm not alone in my thought process... You have 30k members here, some of which will surely agree with the removal of this button for the very same reason, devaluation.
You've heard it here, you've heard it on Discord, you've heard it in the past long before I spoke up about it... Apparently it was enough to give the devs of Em8er split thoughts, and you guys had to toss a coin.
Historically, there have been multiple games where people got themselves banned for criticizing aspects of games they like, I did so myself not too long ago to League of Maidens, where I told them their Main Menu looks like a mobile game with lucky wheels and gambling currencies filled with P2W... They banned me for that criticism, even tho I defended them against the claims of bitcoin mining. Which also got many others banned for being negative about.
So, it's also safe to assume that some people don't dare speaking their mind, cuz any dev can boot anyone as they see fit for reasons unknown.... I am not afraid to speak my mind, and I will continue to do so when I feel money is being tampered with in bad ways, such as devaluation, or P2W.

That's nice, but ponder in a way that doesn't affect what people pay for.

The fact is, that Rockstar can add this button any day they want, just like any other developer can. But they haven't, and they won't. I can't say for certain, but I'm 99% sure that nobody else have added this button for the exact same reason as described by both me, and Steven Sharif.
The reason why this haven't been a topic in other games is because no other game has added it. They have buttons to hide their own gear but not hide what others are wearing.

Ashes of Creation has opted for performance, where if you want, the engine can turn off customizations if performance is considered low by the engine, to increase framerate in 100v100 areas for example. But as clearly stated, it only ever turns off customizations in favor of performance, NOT for the same reason Crixa wants it to be which is to allow anyone to turn off what everyone has dedicated their time and money on.
Personal customizations can be turned off, just like in many other games in the past.
In Ashes of Creation, YOU are in charge of what you and others view you as, as should be.
If I spend an hour to fix my hair for a late night party, I want everyone to see what I've done to my hair. Giving the rest the option to delete my hair from their sight makes my effort of time and money into products a complete waste.
Same reason why you buy alt-skins in Planetside 2 where you barely get to see what you're wearing yourself... You buy it for others to see, because YOU want to look badass to OTHERS.

Also, what's funny is that you're requesting more people to speak up against this to take action, regardless of how badly I'm stomping on your reasons to justify the existence of this button... Because you know more people won't, since you know both forum and DIscord is pretty much dead.
No matter how logical my reasons are, no matter how clear the reasons are to NOT add this button, you opt for more voices from a silent majority. I think that's unfair.
Where is the old discussions? How many people did it take for you to add it, and what were the arguments FOR this button? ...Whatever it was, I'm sure I have already disproven them, debunked, and provided greater reasons to NOT add it... But it's all ignored in favor for the silent voices requested.

I'm gonna get my Succubus skin if it drops just in case you guys come to your senses, then I'm out. If you're gonna be banning people for modding and 3rd party skin injections in the future, you may as well just ban me already because I will not support a game with this feature. I paid for the game, so if I'm not banned, I'll be playing like anyone else but at my own terms, namely by custom injections. Maybe I'll even learn to design my own skins.
I have lived without MMOs for a decade tho, and I can continue to do so without Em8er if I'm banned.

 

[Ronyn]

...

I'm not going to retread the same information again.
So if you don't see a response in this specific message, it's because it's already in a previous reply.
Look I get it. You believe you "won" the argument. It's not like people are always going to come to a place where everyone agrees with the outcome or thought processes.
Agree to disagree.

Apparently it was enough to give the devs of Em8er split thoughts, and you guys had to toss a coin.

Could you clarify what you are referring to with this?

Where is the old discussions? How many people did it take for you to add it

Honestly the issue of Em-8er's "sexy skins", and whether we should or shouldn't have them, leading to what we should do about it from somebodies perspective, has come up so many times over the years. It would be hard to remember how many times, how many people, or at which point the toggle feature was brought forward as a solution.

If you're gonna be banning people for modding and 3rd party skin injections in the future, you may as well just ban me already because I will not support a game with this feature. I paid for the game, so if I'm not banned, I'll be playing like anyone else but at my own terms, namely by custom injections. Maybe I'll even learn to design my own skins.
I have lived without MMOs for a decade tho, and I can continue to do so without Em8er if I'm banned.

Do what you feel is best for you man.
When the rules about how we deal with client side mods go live, we will find out if it clashes with what you end up doing or not.