How deadly are we allowed to be?

[Omnires]

The title says it all. How given the level of technology in the game what if the upper limit to how deadly weapons can get? Because a good number of us knows how both science and weapons work to be effective. Like for example a hard cap on no weapons that can blow up the planet is allowed despite them having the ability to make such things. So what are some hard caps and soft caps in terms of the kind of weapons allowed in the game world?

I ask this question because I was talking with some friends about different sci-fi stories and how the worlds are always written in a way to artificially limit the things they can do without given a good reason as to why. Grant a good story / game is still good without explaining it. But to those of us who like to do things like theory crafting when we are board, it is often times an annoying thing when the rules of the world doesn't line up with logic of the world.

For example. What is stopping someone from using space warping technology not as way to travel but as a weapon? What is stop them from making 2 small drones that can make a thin 1D blade between them that can cut through anything super easy because the area of highly dense space between the drones is smaller than the space between atoms. Or what stopping someone from using a shield projector as weapon by aiming it as small spot in or on a body and making it grow (like making an energy shield bubble inside of the enemy's gut and making it grow until they pop.)?

You get my point. So what are the things about this people and culture that would stop them from making such things? Of if they do make them what is stopping them from using them as weapons? Is it some kind honor or moral code they live by? Is it something legal with different types of technology having safe guards built into them in such a why that they can't be bypassed? Is it something about their faith and religious practices? Or it could be a mix of all these things. I just want to get a sense of where are the lines drawn so if I ever started to theory craft about this game I'll know what things to rule out.

 

[Wyntyr]

Could be that the tech wasn't worth developing due to reasons (quick & cheap to defend against, not worth the time or cost to develop vs other tech, etc.). Could be the tech is available but difficult to acquire, maintain, and/or power. In regards to Em.8ER I have some thoughts. Perhaps the planet itself is in some sort of space/time focal point, could be certain things between orbit and planet side are not doable. For example, perhaps you can drop a drop ship through the atmosphere, or a graphite rod, and let gravity get these items between that crossover point...but...large energy items will not work and/or have a major explosive/implosive reaction at that point. Therefore spacecraft cannot use engines until before or after crossing that barrier. Energy weapons from space do no harm/fade away, are 100 times worse on the same side as the shot, or reflect back upon the firing vessel, etc.

 

[Mahdi]

One parameter that is an easy go to. Fear of the 'almighty race' who already destroyed our home planet. Keep the tech low to avoid another attack. I would love to see a passive build up with the terraforming as a way to find a break through and eventual face off with the Enshigi, if I spelled it right.

Maybe an anniversary devs vs community event. Oh God that lore would be awesome....a release of a chapter from the book paired up with the event. Grummz, we LOVE you man!!

Outside of that, I like Wyntyr's approach with Em-8ER's existence having an effect on the tech.

 

[Omnires]

I can see that happening. Do to the nature of the planet and/or solar system itself somethings would just be to hard to do or just don't make sense. Like using a flame thrower on a planet where most of the gas and liquids on the planet are highly flammable (there are moons and planets like this in real life). So there could be odd energy fields in and around the planet that would make using some types of technology not work in way that they should. Things like resonance frequencies and retard waves can be a big problem if they happen in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As for the idea of another faction / race limiting another that too is base of a lot of good stories *looking at things like Gurren Lagann*. Hmm... what if they are watching us without us knowing to see if we break one of their rules again? But maybe they don't feel like blowing up the world this time. So what could do it set up events that would keep them getting they view as "dangerous" from things like ruins. Also this could be a bases for things like hit units in the game. You player made a really powerful Omniframe with the weapons and parts you used. But do to the logic of the game you are over the allowed power level and they have taken notice of you. No one man should have all that power and how they have sent unit after you. They don't have to kill you, just knock your power down a bit by damaging your parts in just the right way.

The different faction thing is also reason why in some stories and games that people will still run around using things like swords and hammers when they can clearly use guns, tanks, and other stuff to fight. Because the other faction has some kind of resistance to immunity to weapon of this type. For example, in Warframe the reason the play uses low tech weapons like swords is because the Sentient faction is all but immune to high tech weapons and to high tech weapons they are not immune to they can hack and take over the systems of. I've seen this same logic used in a lot of stories and it works as long as you make it reasonable. Like when beings from another reality cross over. Because they are made from different things and have different energies about them "normal" weapons might not work on them. Sorry, you can't just drop a bomb on the demon to kill it, you have to stab it in the heart with this wooden stick from a holy tree.

 

[liandri]

With the limited resources floating around space that are easily accessible, it's plausible that weapons, omniframe components, THMP-Rs, etc. are initially built in cost-effective batches. It's good to make 1 great gun, but you may be using enough resources to make 100 serviceable guns. Not everyone needs a great gun, and if they do, they can pay the resources to upgrade their existing run-of-the-mill or have a completely new design built.

Now we're on Em-8ER, we have access to more resources that are easily accessible, including what we can scrounge from the fallen Tsi-hu and Kaiju, and with the higher world tier, build greater weaponry. At Tier 1, these would be serviceable. At the highest tier, I would say a skilled reaper could kill any group of Tsi-hu that got in his way, but still need assistance to take down Kaiju Cat 2 and up.

The Enshigi have already shown that they are vastly superior to us, and we've be separated from them for a long time too. We're capable of plasma-based weaponry, instantaneous travel (using portals), unspecified duration core reactors for powered suits, advanced AI... I suspect it's a free for all when it comes to munition types (radiation, biological warfare) since we can also terraform planets.

Thinking about Baneclaw and Kanaloa from Firefall, some Dreadnaught-class (Mammoth, Rhino) could shred these bosses in seconds. Perhaps this would be the absolute power limit players can experience against Cat 1 Kaiju. For NPCs and in-game events, military vehicles, orbital bombardments and THMP-R calldowns would hit extremely hard. Enshigi could simply annihilate the solar system so gameplay-wise, i would guess they may send "other" beings to fight in their stead, perhaps robotic reconnaissance forces, as they don't want to risk destabilizing the time prison or destroying possible artifacts.

As for unconventional weaponry, as a result of limited resources, there may have been limited experimentation. A projectile that creates an expanding shield inside a target to tear them apart sounds deadly, but how much better is it compared to armour-piercing with a delayed explosive? Is it more difficult to manufacture? Maybe there are prototypes (like the prototype cores in FF) that cost a boatload of resources.

 

[Mahdi]

My imagination went along the lines of what power the Enshigi don't have. Control of the past. Our fights with the Tsi-hu and the popping in and out of their time trap could uncover a way the Enshigi so that they might be able to go back in the past to fix what made them want to break away from everyone in the first place. Humans can never let go of the desire to make a perfect earth, make earth perfect.

No place like home right?

I like the trial and error approach to what may/may not work in some environments. I can see many humorous historical points of companies folding because their bad tech reacted wrong and blew pilots up. I also love the limited resource route. I mean, what better foundation for the thumping?

 

[Pandagnome]

Thinking out loud i am sure most have been said but here is some thoughts

- A super weapon that could of been hijacked and used on their own leading to some restriction

- A super energy weapon that was created and used for their power source but was too unstable to control and revised to be more manageable.

- Specialist Martial artists collective who preferred the ancient weapons of their ancestors

- Stealthy Reapers who preferred lower energy signature weaponry to be harder to detect

- Weapon so dangerous it was hidden from all, there were stories circulating about the past, and those who used such weapon altered their dna resulting in turning into less human and more monstrous like a virus.

- Such weapons used very rare resources and much harder to use than the more efficient but less powerful weapons of the next gen.

- These weapons were used by their most evil opponents & to use such weapon was seen as disgusting and embarrassing to the Reaper image.

- Weapons like this are now converted and used for better uses such as construction and drill heads.

- Many of these weapons are stock piled and unused the problem was, the weapons degraded too quickly. The Research Mk-1b versions lasted the longest but still a short duration compared to the standard for just under 40 seconds until it was deemed useless.

These so called 1 time use weapons were similar to the Hyper Kenesis Module but more consumables.
Once used they would turn into a liquid substance that would need to be taken back to the lab. The process to make these 1 time super consumables could take as long as 1 year which wasn't ideal.

 

[Mahdi]

- Specialist Martial artists collective who preferred the ancient weapons of their ancestors

Dune : Swordmasters of Ginaz

'Nough said

 

[Wyntyr]

 

[Omnires]

You know the Dune thing does bring up a good point. Countermeasures, technology and/or tactics that lower the effectiveness of another if not make them useless. For example in Dune the reason they use daggers when they can clearly use guns is because of personal shields are easy and cheep enough to make that large number of the populations has them. Those shields are designed to stop any fast moving kinetic energy from passing through as well as most type of energy weapons. But that is also the speed limit on things is also the weakness in the shield, it can't block slow moving objects. And people started to use old bladed weapons in combat to bypass the shields because a slow moving blade to a vital area of the body will still kill someone. And over time a culture built up around the idea of slowing down your movements enough in combat to push through the shields of other people.

So in this game there could also be different types of countermeasures used by enemies that force us to use some types of weapons and/or tactics / fighting styles to bypass them. For example in most movies and stuff with energy shields one of the selling points of them is that you can still see and hear things from the other side of the shield and if it is bubble you can still breath. But theses are also weak points in the shield as you know it can't stop light, sound, and some types of gases. And I don't know about you, having a resonance frequency sound mess up your vision because it is vibrates at same level as the fluid inside your eyes is not a fun time. I was seeing double and triple while the sound was effecting me.

 

[Wyntyr]

Yep. Perhaps a specific shifter and/or Kaiju that the damage reduction is just plain massive against high energy/high speed weapons...but...pull that melee weapon out, get in it's face, and now you're doing some damage.