Countering Recoil

[Omnires]

This tread is all about different ways mecha can control the recoil of their weapons and even use it to their advantage. Different ways have their pros and cons but I feel this is something to think about as not everyone is going to be using energy weapons. Share your ideas and thoughts. And not everything has to make total sense because the rule of cool is always welcomed. I'll start which some ways I've seen it done in games and other media.

• Anchors and Stances - Before firing a shot from a powerful weapon some times the mecha has to get into right firing stance help them resist the force of the recoil. But some times not even that is enough so things like hooks and anchors might come out of the meaha and/or weapon attaching to ground and other objects around them just as way to keep the force of the recoil from pushing them backwards. Even some melee focused mecha might anchor themselves to the ground or something before a powerful melee attack. This because melee fighters use things like kinetic linking to add extra power to their attacks (that is right the real force behind some of those really powerful punches boxers and martial artists do all actually start in the feet and legs then works it way up through the body.).
• Counter force - These is where at the moment of each shot of a powerful weapon there is counter force to weaken or cancel out the force of the recoil. This mostly done in two ways. Venting, where part of the exhaust of the round is vented in such a way to keep the weapon stable (For example the muzzle of a tommy gun is designed to vent out some of the gas from each shot keep the gun from jumping around to much as it tends to pull to one side.). The other way is by using thrusters on the mecha and/or gun itself to fire at the same time as the weapon does using the force and acceleration of the thrusters to counter the recoil and you from moving. This also some times done with melee mecha that might have to use thrusters to after the attack to keep their balance and stop any extra momentum they might have.
• Movement - Some mecha don't try to limit the recoil of their guns all the time because they know they can use it to help them move around as if it was extra burst thruster. So can use the recoil to do things like dodging attacks, avoiding crashing into things, or even helping to get closer to the enemy. Even some melee melee use it the force of their attacks to move around (more commonly seen in mecha with weapons built into their arms and legs. Like pistons and things that make shock waves).

Part of the reason why I also used melee in my examples is just because I've examples of it in sci-fi and some stroies go out of their way to explain by melee works batter on some enemies over other. Like how in some sci-fi there are shields that can block ranged attacks but not melee attacks for various different reasons. Although not a mecha sci-fi Dune has one of the best examples of this type of energy shield. In Dune they wear personal energy shields that stop projectile weapons because projectile have to move fast to damage a target. So the shield blocks anything that moves fast enough to be seen as a threat. But it doesn't stop slow moving object. And that is why they fight with knives and daggers because they can still be deadly at low speeds. And so they can slowly push the blade through the shield and into person with little resistance as long as the person is not fighting back.

 

[Drakin5]

Recoil itself is just mere kinetic energy the other way around. It’ll only be a matter of time before some genius decide to harness its power. After all, you might want to have your mecha to be efficient with little to no waste energy.

 

[Omnires]

This is true. And there is also the matter of if you want to or not. Like in the case of people who use recoil for movement and to help them move faster. But I can also see someone used advanced technology to completely capture the energy of the recoil so the gun doesn't move at all while also using that energy to do something like change a battery. What makes topics like this fun is how creative can some people can be in how the negate recoil or use it to do something else.

I wound love to have an omniframe with a sniper rifle so powerful that I can use the recoil from it to move around and fly. While also having anchor cables shoot out of it into the ground and stuff for the times that I don't want to move. The upside being that I could also use the anchors to do things like attach myself to walls and hang upside down from the ceiling of caves and enemy bases.

Going by how fast the anchors can attach and detach form things. Some mecha and even battleships use them for movement too. Like making really tight turns that they could not have made otherwise.

 

[Markolis]

Recoil itself is just mere kinetic energy the other way around. It’ll only be a matter of time before some genius decide to harness its power

It wouldn't be far fetched to be able to compress the muzzle flash/shock recoil, into a pressure tank and once full, release that energy back into the weapon to be used as a secondary/supplementary resource!?

 

[EvilKitten]

I should point out that recoil is only a feature of modern day projectile weaponry. It can be assumed that there will be multiple weapon attack types that will not involve any significant recoil whatsoever (laser, plasma, grenade, EMP, etc.). Also it could easily be assumed, since Em-8er is set far in the future, that any projectile weapon would be MAC designed rather than chemically accelerated. I suspect that the forces involved would be much easier to direct over combustion inside of an enclosed hollow cylinder. So while there might be SOME loss of accuracy in a full auto weapon, I feel that it should be kept minimal at best.

 

[Maitrejibus]

Hi all,

the recoil is necessary for mobile mechanical parts weapons, because a part of the energy is used to precisely fit the new cartridge.
For the system to recover the gases it is an old system; we call that; Gas loan like on the kalachnikov dear Markolis.
And if we put a system to generate energy on the force of retreat then it will be necessary to anchor even more, because that will produce precisely a greater force to counteract.
In our universe ALL force produces an opposite and equal reaction. So we are not ready to see one day a solution to this problem, otherwise it would be long enough that we would have used it in space, that's why that a screwdriver costs so expensive because in fact there are 2 engines working opposite to avoid seeing cosmonautics turn on itself instead of aiming ;-)

 

[Omnires]

It wouldn't be far fetched to be able to compress the muzzle flash/shock recoil, into a pressure tank and once full, release that energy back into the weapon to be used as a secondary/supplementary resource!?

I like this idea. Because if you could totally capture all the energy of the shot without weakening it that is a lot of energy that could be used for other things. Like a gun where every forth shot from it is super powered because of the extra energy or a shotgun storing and using the energy to make an AOE around the player to push enemies back when they are surrounded.

All weapons have some level wasted/unused energy in the way of light, heat, sound, and vibrations that is not focused on the target. Even energy weapons like lasers because some energy is lost as the mirrors and/or focusing lens heats up a little by little. There is no weapon system without some form of wasted energy. The question than becomes, how much wasted energy in there in the system and is there a way to use that wasted energy to do something else. This part of the reason why perpetual motion machines don't exist yet. There is always some energy in the system being lost somewhere that makes it unusable after awhile. Our inability to overcome things like the laws of thermodynamics is part of the reason why we can't get 100% efficiency out of machines and devices. But we can just ignore all of this in games and dream because the rule of cool. Some things need to be awesome for the sake of being awesome.

I should point out that recoil is only a feature of modern day projectile weaponry. It can be assumed that there will be multiple weapon attack types that will not involve any significant recoil whatsoever (laser, plasma, grenade, EMP, etc.). Also it could easily be assumed, since Em-8er is set far in the future, that any projectile weapon would be MAC designed rather than chemically accelerated. I suspect that the forces involved would be much easier to direct over combustion inside of an enclosed hollow cylinder. So while there might be SOME loss of accuracy in a full auto weapon, I feel that it should be kept minimal at best.

This is true, but remember even some types of energy weapons have recoil. For example railguns and coilguns have recoil despite using electromagnetic energy to fire the shots at high speed. This is because Newton's third law is is still in effect. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is also why really powerful and/or large versions of these are weapons are called Mass Drivers. And one application of them that not only can they be used as weapons on a spaceship but that they can also be used as the ship's main propulsion engines. With one large enough and powerful enough you could also move asteroids and small planets with them.

 

[Maitrejibus]

the dream costs nothing ... because it's not taxed yet

 

[Pandagnome]

So lets say there are weapons of the past that could be discovered and there are hybrid type weapons.
They might be lower in recoil than a very old weapon.

* old weapon high recoil
* hybrid weapon lower recoil converts excess energy to e.g
- Scan waves
- light to use at night
- regenerate energy shield
- energise the pilots g-suit
etc

* Newer weapons variable control recoil depending on the pilots purpose.

- control the velocity of the projectile perhaps a sneaky slow poke to give a poke to a static target
undetected or to go ultra fast and be nice and noisy

- The weaponary projectile could be lighter depending on the type used and materials made from

So lets say to truely have immense power there will be some recoil .
Alternatively reducing how much power it uses could still damage what you want but would not be as high damage as the one with recoil.

For example a heavy shoulder mounted energy laser
mode 1 - uses incredible power at a cost to increased recoil but immense damage this could disintegrate things

mode 2 - uses lower power with less recoil the damage is med-high depending on power allocation but not as much as mode 1 you have basically split the power so you can fire more than once

mode 3 - uses lowest power no recoil and is a pew pew pew pew pew this wont do the damage with 1 hit but adding it all up also depends on the rof too.

 

[EvilKitten]

This is true, but remember even some types of energy weapons have recoil. For example railguns and coilguns have recoil despite using electromagnetic energy to fire the shots at high speed. This is because Newton's third law is is still in effect. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is also why really powerful and/or large versions of these are weapons are called Mass Drivers. And one application of them that not only can they be used as weapons on a spaceship but that they can also be used as the ship's main propulsion engines. With one large enough and powerful enough you could also move asteroids and small planets with them.

I was fairly specific in my statement. All of the examples I gave for recoiless weapon types utilize massless attacks, photon's, electromagnetic-energy, source targeted attacks, or attacks with low enough speed to mass ratio (grenades) that the recoil can be easily absorbed. Rail guns and coil guns are all MAC weapons, which was what I referred to in my previous post. My comment was that magnetically accelerated weapons would allow multiple methods of recoil counter not available to gunpowder cartridges.

For example. In standard modern weapons most of the bullet acceleration happens very early in the barrel. In a MAC style weapon the acceleration curve can be spread evenly across the entire length of the barrel aperture, meaning that for the same bullet exit velocity, the delta acceleration (what causes the recoil) would actually be significantly lower.

Additionally when using electronics to fire a weapon, the timing can be extremely procise and entirely known to the Omni-frame connected to it. This means that counterforces can be very finely tuned to help absorb recoil. The Omni-frame itself is something that most modern forces lack, and it would be integral to absorbing recoil.

So yes, I believe that even projectile weapons should (as far as the user is concerned) not impart any significant aim degradation from projectile weaponry.

 

[Omnires]

So lets say there are weapons of the past that could be discovered and there are hybrid type weapons.
They might be lower in recoil than a very old weapon.

* old weapon high recoil
* hybrid weapon lower recoil converts excess energy to e.g
- Scan waves
- light to use at night
- regenerate energy shield
- energise the pilots g-suit
etc

* Newer weapons variable control recoil depending on the pilots purpose.

- control the velocity of the projectile perhaps a sneaky slow poke to give a poke to a static target
undetected or to go ultra fast and be nice and noisy

- The weaponary projectile could be lighter depending on the type used and materials made from

So lets say to truely have immense power there will be some recoil .
Alternatively reducing how much power it uses could still damage what you want but would not be as high damage as the one with recoil.

For example a heavy shoulder mounted energy laser
mode 1 - uses incredible power at a cost to increased recoil but immense damage this could disintegrate things

mode 2 - uses lower power with less recoil the damage is med-high depending on power allocation but not as much as mode 1 you have basically split the power so you can fire more than once

mode 3 - uses lowest power no recoil and is a pew pew pew pew pew this wont do the damage with 1 hit but adding it all up also depends on the rof too.

That is a good. Plus it is in line with how some sci-fi mecha and battleships do it. Like how they never use their main weapon(s) at full power if they can help it. Some of do so because of the charge time of the attack, some do so because to power the attack they have to shutdown other systems (like shields), some do it because at full power the recoil and heat is enough to even damage themselves a little bit, and some others avoid it because they can't fully control it (as in it destroys the target and everything else behind it as well. And some smarter enemies use this to their advantages by trying to keep something you are not willing to destroy behind them and in range of the attack too.).

I was fairly specific in my statement. All of the examples I gave for recoiless weapon types utilize massless attacks, photon's, electromagnetic-energy, source targeted attacks, or attacks with low enough speed to mass ratio (grenades) that the recoil can be easily absorbed. Rail guns and coil guns are all MAC weapons, which was what I referred to in my previous post. My comment was that magnetically accelerated weapons would allow multiple methods of recoil counter not available to gunpowder cartridges.

For example. In standard modern weapons most of the bullet acceleration happens very early in the barrel. In a MAC style weapon the acceleration curve can be spread evenly across the entire length of the barrel aperture, meaning that for the same bullet exit velocity, the delta acceleration (what causes the recoil) would actually be significantly lower.

Additionally when using electronics to fire a weapon, the timing can be extremely procise and entirely known to the Omni-frame connected to it. This means that counterforces can be very finely tuned to help absorb recoil. The Omni-frame itself is something that most modern forces lack, and it would be integral to absorbing recoil.

So yes, I believe that even projectile weapons should (as far as the user is concerned) not impart any significant aim degradation from projectile weaponry.

Oh I sorry if it looked like I was disagreeing with you, I wasn't. I'm totally for having anti-recoil system built into the weapons and omniframes. It is just that in my mind when it comes some types of weapons when they are powerful enough or overcharged they more or less stop being solely weapons and turn into being propulsion engines too. It is just that because we have railguns and coilguns in real life now those was the first examples that popped into my head at the time. Really any gun that fires any kind of matter out of it has some recoil even if it is small and unnoticeable by the ones holding it. Plasma weapons and charged particle beam weapons all have a tiny bit of recoil because even if the atoms and particles are light in mass the act of forcing them to move one direction is still pushing the weapon backwards slightly. Unless you was in outer space you wouldn't even know it was there. But there is a point where if you charge and fire enough of plasma or charged particles of a given velocity and amount of mass the gun turns into an engine. The same types of engines used on spacecrafts. And there are a number of weapons that act like this when you over power them and/or scale them up to the right levels.

Even pure energy weapons, like sound wave guns, can focus the air pressure to change in such at way at the target area to make shock waves and explosions. So if you just make the focus point of a shock wave to be just in front of you then you could use the force of the air to push yourself backwards at the same time you push an enemy away from you. Likewise if you jump at the same time you make a shock wave below your feet you could jump higher and faster than normal. The weapon itself doesn't have recoil but the shock ways it makes can have a recoil effect if they are made in close enough range of the shooter.

---------------------------------------

Also on a side note, about the application such things outside of combat. What if someone was to use the recoil of their gun push themselves forward before opening their wings? Would they keep that extra velocity while gliding? Or if they make large enough shock waves can the use those vibrations to map out the area too? I'm not saying these thing have to be in the game, as they are just something fun to think about. Because it is lot like we are going to be in combat all the time, we do have other things to do. Like what if I don't want to use my scan hammer to look for resources? Why can't I just make explosions and shock waves in the area to same effect? After all, we do use explosions to map out things deep understand anyway. Sure, it might seem silly and it is. But real life isn't always logical and rational ether. Like just blow up a few megatons of explosives to scan everything on the map all at once. Fun is fun.

 

[Maitrejibus]

For my part,

i agree to have recoil on the weapons using ammunition, but on the other hand the weapons with pure energy (laser, plasma, etc ..) which have no case back, should have a cadence of shot well below conventional weapons.
Indeed, if the game has not pushed back on weapons with a greater destructive power, conventional weapons will become useless.

Even if in a game the reality does not exist and that one could do all that one wants, one must still keep in mind the principle of the game which is to have difficulties to kill enemies. Because otherwise the game would not interest, because would be too easy.

However, it would indeed be nice to find other types of weapons, we know the primary weapons (spears, sword, club, ...), ammunition weapons (energy hybrid or not), weapons have pure energy (laser, plasma, ...), chemical weapons (as in Firefall with the recluse), but rare are the games that use sound waves (film Dune), or even, why not, radiation weapons that , more have remained a long time or more is close, would cause degratations (as for chemical weapons recluse), but with a much longer regeneration for example to repair DNA and electronics.

The secret will be the balance between the time of implementation of a weapon and the power of the damage.

 

[Pandagnome]

For my part,

i agree to have recoil on the weapons using ammunition, but on the other hand the weapons with pure energy (laser, plasma, etc ..) which have no case back, should have a cadence of shot well below conventional weapons.
Indeed, if the game has not pushed back on weapons with a greater destructive power, conventional weapons will become useless.

Even if in a game the reality does not exist and that one could do all that one wants, one must still keep in mind the principle of the game which is to have difficulties to kill enemies. Because otherwise the game would not interest, because would be too easy.

However, it would indeed be nice to find other types of weapons, we know the primary weapons (spears, sword, club, ...), ammunition weapons (energy hybrid or not), weapons have pure energy (laser, plasma, ...), chemical weapons (as in Firefall with the recluse), but rare are the games that use sound waves (film Dune), or even, why not, radiation weapons that , more have remained a long time or more is close, would cause degratations (as for chemical weapons recluse), but with a much longer regeneration for example to repair DNA and electronics.

The secret will be the balance between the time of implementation of a weapon and the power of the damage.

Also non-lethal weapons, i know we keep talking about damage because if you eliminate the threat then its done.

Lets say one of the pilots has a mission that involved retrieving a specific part intact or to gather enough intel from the target etc etc etc

* A weapon that fires a liquid substance lets say this liquid is like an ink how squids shoot out with a switch of its alt this liquid could change the temperature to isolate section of a target e.g its leg or their main firing weapon.

* A weapon that fires multiple little bots just like the spider grenades in global agenda these would run to the target release a gas substance to disorientate and could even make them sleep as long as the little bots are alive since its health pool is not so high.

* A device that astral projects you to a given area this could be done through walls and certain enemies however there is a chance it could corrupt the pilots mind if kept in that state for too long.

Astral projections of enemies can be done since this technology was taken from the kaiju they could move so fast but they also have found ways to get past things without the use of their physical form.

Perhaps the only way to counter is to use such device that takes you into the astral plane and the detection of energy readings.

 

[Omnires]

For my part,

i agree to have recoil on the weapons using ammunition, but on the other hand the weapons with pure energy (laser, plasma, etc ..) which have no case back, should have a cadence of shot well below conventional weapons.
Indeed, if the game has not pushed back on weapons with a greater destructive power, conventional weapons will become useless.

Even if in a game the reality does not exist and that one could do all that one wants, one must still keep in mind the principle of the game which is to have difficulties to kill enemies. Because otherwise the game would not interest, because would be too easy.

However, it would indeed be nice to find other types of weapons, we know the primary weapons (spears, sword, club, ...), ammunition weapons (energy hybrid or not), weapons have pure energy (laser, plasma, ...), chemical weapons (as in Firefall with the recluse), but rare are the games that use sound waves (film Dune), or even, why not, radiation weapons that , more have remained a long time or more is close, would cause degratations (as for chemical weapons recluse), but with a much longer regeneration for example to repair DNA and electronics.

The secret will be the balance between the time of implementation of a weapon and the power of the damage.

I always felt that part of the way the game would keep players from becoming OP in the same way nature keeps different lifeforms from being OP. By having a variety of different enemies for us to fight all with different strength, weakness, and threats. Something that is deadly to one being is something another being might use to live. Just because something has defenses against these things doesn't mean it has defense against those things. And same with armor, some times having armor itself is the weakness when going against beings what specializes in bypassing and destroying armor. But they might have a harder time against soft body things. If the monster ideas for the game have some bases in reality on top of the fantastical, than they would be in a good place. All the best monsters in stories, movies, and games have that of element if realism that taken from real life and pushed to the extreme. And for an idea of traits and abilities some of the bosses could have they can just look at extremophiles and these are lifeforms that can survive things that would kill most other things near instantaneously without question. Like I always say, there is no such thing as a perfect offence nor a perfect defense. This why players are forced to think about what they are fighting and do they have the right equipment to fight it. Rather than just running guns blazing killing everything in their path. Because what if the enemy type that lives in that area is more or less immune to that type of damage and you don't have a backup plan because all your weapons use the same damage type?

And for a quick example of what I mean I'll use one of my favorite animals as a "what if" they made a monster based on this.

Also non-lethal weapons, i know we keep talking about damage because if you eliminate the threat then its done.

Lets say one of the pilots has a mission that involved retrieving a specific part intact or to gather enough intel from the target etc etc etc

* A weapon that fires a liquid substance lets say this liquid is like an ink how squids shoot out with a switch of its alt this liquid could change the temperature to isolate section of a target e.g its leg or their main firing weapon.

* A weapon that fires multiple little bots just like the spider grenades in global agenda these would run to the target release a gas substance to disorientate and could even make them sleep as long as the little bots are alive since its health pool is not so high.

* A device that astral projects you to a given area this could be done through walls and certain enemies however there is a chance it could corrupt the pilots mind if kept in that state for too long.

Astral projections of enemies can be done since this technology was taken from the kaiju they could move so fast but they also have found ways to get past things without the use of their physical form.

Perhaps the only way to counter is to use such device that takes you into the astral plane and the detection of energy readings.

For weapons that use gas or liquid as their ammo I think having things like adjustable nozzles on them would be good. Using the wide setting on a nozzle would be great for covering an area in the gas or liquid as much as possible as the cost of range and power, so there no recoil. But as you adjust the nozzle to have a smaller and smaller opening the AOE is smaller but the range and power goes up. And that the smallest the nozzle can go you are firing fast moving compressed gas or liquid powerful enough to cut through things like rocks as long as you can handle the recoil. You can most easily see and do this with a water hose and an adjustable fireman style nozzle. The smaller you make the opening on the nozzle the more the force of the water wants to push the nozzle backwards.

So is you want the gun to act like shotgun or something just use the wide opening setting. But if you want range and the ability to push enemies back or cut through armor you use the narrowest opening possible. Also you can have fun with these types of weapons by changing the shape of the opening of the nozzle. Like how about making smoke rings with toxic gas or spraying glue in a star shape? No one said all the nozzles had to be round.

Also on the topic of non-lethal weapons, just me something like a carbon nanotube woven fiber net with rockets on the end so that I can fire it at enemies and it hits them rockets make sure that the net wraps around them or pins them to the ground/wall. Where is my sci-fi net launcher?

 

[Pandagnome]

So the tardigrades are like micro kaiju's so they are the micro infiltrators of the kaiju if they crawl in one's nostril/ears etc they have a chance to control the npc humans the medics can zap them and take them to the med bay for safe procedure then the micro infiltrators will be kept in containment fields to study and develop bots mimicking their behavior.

Machines that pinned the kaiju and tickled them to insanity, they would vanish and reappear by the shock the kaiju's have seen enough and are drawn to stomp on these so called machines of mass insanity.

 

[Omnires]

Here is something to think about in the game that is related to recoil but it is more about explosions. And that is are things effected by the vacuum left behind by large powerful explosions? Everyone knows about the blast damage and shock wave large powerful explosions make. But you rarely see what happens next in games and movies. And that is after the force of the explosion is done pushing everything outward there is a large low pressure area in the middle that starts to suck everything back in towards the center until the pressure evens out. If kaiju and Humans are fighting and making powerful explosions all over the place. Then after an explosion pushes them away they should also feel an equally powerful vacuum trying to pull them back in.

So the tardigrades are like micro kaiju's so they are the micro infiltrators of the kaiju if they crawl in one's nostril/ears etc they have a chance to control the npc humans the medics can zap them and take them to the med bay for safe procedure then the micro infiltrators will be kept in containment fields to study and develop bots mimicking their behavior.

Machines that pinned the kaiju and tickled them to insanity, they would vanish and reappear by the shock the kaiju's have seen enough and are drawn to stomp on these so called machines of mass insanity.

That is one of the things that always bothers me in some sci-fi. That you can have two or more intelligent races fighting each other in a war, but you rarely see them fighting in an intelligent way. If the two races use and relays on technology why don't you see more electronic warfare and cyber warfare, with both sides picking over past battles for things they can reverse engineer? If both side know about biology and chemistry why don't see both side then why don't you see them recovering bodies to do things like autopsies. Or trying to capture each other peoples alive both to examine how living members of the race work and to try and get useful information out of them. An what a scientist finds useful and what a military officer finds useful are not always the same thing. For example, knowing the growth rate and reproduction cycle of the other race might not help you win the battle but in the long run it can help you win the war. And with all of that in mind there is no logical reason for long term wars to exist between races of high enough intelligence and level of technology as each side just make and use weapons of mass destruction. But there is where things like culture and psychology come into picture because the question each race has to answer is, does the ends justify the means or does the means justify the end?

If the Tsi-Hu are meant to be a race of beings who is at lest as intelligence as Humans and have a level of scientific understanding at lest somewhere near our level. Than the only way long term warfare can exist is because there are things that both the Tsi-Hu and the Humans are holding back on or just refusing to do. Which points to two things for me, both sides are trying to win while trying to protect something (it doesn't have to be something physical.) and to both sides how the win the war is more important than actually winning. After all, what good is winning if you can't feel good about it? Although personally just for the fun of it. I would love to see at lest one member of each race playing devil's advocate for the other race in some way. Like the meme goes, "____ did nothing wrong.". A goof example being this.

 

[Pandagnome]

Here is something to think about in the game that is related to recoil but it is more about explosions. And that is are things effected by the vacuum left behind by large powerful explosions? Everyone knows about the blast damage and shock wave large powerful explosions make. But you rarely see what happens next in games and movies. And that is after the force of the explosion is done pushing everything outward there is a large low pressure area in the middle that starts to suck everything back in towards the center until the pressure evens out. If kaiju and Humans are fighting and making powerful explosions all over the place. Then after an explosion pushes them away they should also feel an equally powerful vacuum trying to pull them back in.

I was talking at work if you were pulled inside a vaccum and unleashed another explosion within the vaccum would that create a vaccum within a vaccum!

Nothing to do with vaccums but i like the idea of sounds that blast you up into the air like bass.
Sure it would draw alot of attention but if there is a vaccum after an explosion its a good way to lure them in.

Then what about different polaritiy magnetic to repel of surfaces then it could depends which areas have certain properties of metal to do this so may let you do this more easier than other spots.

An what a scientist finds useful and what a military officer finds useful are not always the same thing.

Yes can imagine scientistic especially a mad one would have own agenda's but others may want to improve structure strength looking into the build of the kaiju plating and even its structure they have made.

If the Tsi-Hu are meant to be a race of beings who is at lest as intelligence as Humans and have a level of scientific understanding at lest somewhere near our level. Than the only way long term warfare can exist is because there are things that both the Tsi-Hu and the Humans are holding back on or just refusing to do. Which points to two things for me, both sides are trying to win while trying to protect something (it doesn't have to be something physical.) and to both sides how the win the war is more important than actually winning. After all, what good is winning if you can't feel good about it? Although personally just for the fun of it. I would love to see at lest one member of each race playing devil's advocate for the other race in some way. Like the meme goes, "____ did nothing wrong.". A goof example being this.

That would make the game interesting and in the minds of the opposition they are right the other is wrong. Could it turn a group of those who are both against the war a neutral side outcasts that avoids it all ? Somewhere in another biome.

Also an example if one of the npc's were replaced by a enemy we wouldn't know who it was until we figured out the clues by how the npc would act strange or change the subject. Perhaps that npc would transform and you either have a choice of capturing now or act as if everything is normal

A) If you catch them or kill them the kaiju's would be alerted and activate the other sleepers in the base !

B) If you play along perhaps you can unmask the network of sleepers within the base before they are activated to turn against you and the others!

 

[EvilKitten]

Here is something to think about in the game that is related to recoil but it is more about explosions. And that is are things effected by the vacuum left behind by large powerful explosions? Everyone knows about the blast damage and shock wave large powerful explosions make. But you rarely see what happens next in games and movies. And that is after the force of the explosion is done pushing everything outward there is a large low pressure area in the middle that starts to suck everything back in towards the center until the pressure evens out. [/MEDIA]

Technically speaking everybody "knows" about this...without necessarily knowing about it That low pressure area is one of the key physics in what causes the mushroom cloud after a nuclear detonation.

 

[Omnires]

I was talking at work if you were pulled inside a vaccum and unleashed another explosion within the vaccum would that create a vaccum within a vaccum!

Nothing to do with vaccums but i like the idea of sounds that blast you up into the air like bass.
Sure it would draw alot of attention but if there is a vaccum after an explosion its a good way to lure them in.

Then what about different polaritiy magnetic to repel of surfaces then it could depends which areas have certain properties of metal to do this so may let you do this more easier than other spots.



Yes can imagine scientistic especially a mad one would have own agenda's but others may want to improve structure strength looking into the build of the kaiju plating and even its structure they have made.



That would make the game interesting and in the minds of the opposition they are right the other is wrong. Could it turn a group of those who are both against the war a neutral side outcasts that avoids it all ? Somewhere in another biome.

Also an example if one of the npc's were replaced by a enemy we wouldn't know who it was until we figured out the clues by how the npc would act strange or change the subject. Perhaps that npc would transform and you either have a choice of capturing now or act as if everything is normal

A) If you catch them or kill them the kaiju's would be alerted and activate the other sleepers in the base !

B) If you play along perhaps you can unmask the network of sleepers within the base before they are activated to turn against you and the others!

Using things like sound waves to fly and hover in place is one of those things that always go me thinking ever since I first learned that acoustic tweezers use standing waves to work. Hell, even now in real life some people are using acoustic tweezers with imaging technology to make a type of solid hologram. I always thought what if I made jet or mecha that used sound waves both to fly and attack. And it could also be used in stealth because if you counter the waves of your own engines and stuff than no one can hear you coming.

Just in case anyone want to know about the types of holograms I was talking about. Skip to point 2:25 of the video.

As for using magnetic fields to do things like jump and fly remember that everything is effected by magic fields and not just metals. Even things like water can be moved around by powerful magnetic fields thing is because when you think about magnetic fields you have to think about the atoms that make up something and not the object itself. Because a magic is just and object where most of the atoms in it are all facing the same direction. Meaning you can turn anything into a magnet if you you can fore the atoms in it to change direction and line up. For example.

I also like the idea of having smart enemies in the game where we have to try and out smart them just as much as we have to try and over power them. Having at least one faction of humans and one faction of Tsi-Hu who are against fighting and for looking for peaceful ways to end the war just makes sense when you are talking about intelligent races of beings with free will. And both these groups doesn't even have to be aware of each other's existence to work. As some of them can do things that would minimize casualties on both sides as much as possible without exposing themselves. After all, it is really easy to mask sabotage and subterfuge as things like bad luck and incompetents. And the only why to know that something is not right by noticing things like a few enemies who are intentionally missing shoots while making it look like they are trying to hit you, or choosing to run away even if they had the advantage in that encounter, or just disobeying orders while pretending to follow them. This could lead a few people on both sides to aware of such factions on both sides of war. And than comes the interplay of the between all four sides and their goal and intent.

Like what if we has spy missions where we had to spy on other own people to see if someone if working against us? What if we had like a "Who Done It" style of mission where we have find out what went wrong and who is to blame for for? That is if anyone is to blame at all, because it could just really be that is just bad luck or someone just not knowing something.

Technically speaking everybody "knows" about this...without necessarily knowing about it That low pressure area is one of the key physics in what causes the mushroom cloud after a nuclear detonation.

Yes, but I would love to see in games where after powerful explosions everything that resisted being blown away would than have to try and resist being sucked into the ground zero. And how different people might use that effect to their advantage. For example, fire being pulled towards the center and becoming larger and hotter as it combines with other fires or how you could release gases knowing the vacuum will pill them into the center where you are sure some kaiju was able to survive the blast too. I think it would add a lot of fun and tactics to games if only why made things like that have an effect. And know you just used nuclear detonation as an example because it what most know and think of, but I think about of people would be shocked that nuclear detonation is not the only thing does these. And use the fact that the planet is being terraformed as way to show a few natural examples of it too, like powerful volcanic eruptions and microburst. As a school science teacher told my 6th grade once, "There is nothing that planets with an atmosphere hates more than a vacuum. Because it will always try everything it can to fill that space with something."

 

[Pandagnome]

Like what if we has spy missions where we had to spy on other own people to see if someone if working against us? What if we had like a "Who Done It" style of mission where we have find out what went wrong and who is to blame for for? That is if anyone is to blame at all, because it could just really be that is just bad luck or someone just not knowing something.

That would be fun and it could help us to know other characters better also this way we can have ways to increase our reps with certain kinds by knowing them or avoiding certain characters.

Other missions like to see:

- Replacing power cores in an enemy base to hijack their comm tower to send wrong signal for diversion

- Protecting an npc until their parents get back to escort them back to safety

- Avoiding deadly acid in a cave as it rises up using your grappler and making your way out to safety

- Racing ofc because its fast and its fun against a fast kaiju hot on your heels

- unravel mysterious of a lost navigation point that triangulate to markings analysing all the markings creates a map depending on what the marking is a location, a bp etc etc

- Night missions putting a tracker on a target following at a safe distance if spotted out of the shadow
you are captured and your last wereabouts hilighted for other reapers they can choose to help you or leave you.

If they capture you they will put something in you and everytime you enter your base or the sky city the autoturrets see you as a threat due to the kaiju tech embedded inside. So a medic is always a good idea to have check you if you have been caught to remove or find a temporary solution by blocking its signal while the medic upgrades the tool that may do the job.

I like the idea of this as the medic not only has the healing to do but to investigate the symptoms e.g. if the pilot was coughing it is perhaps the filters not maintained so medic would clear lungs with a device using their medical tools.

Now Engineers are great too and they can cross with medics in a way with the use of medibots
but engineers are more towards meks and structures i guess.

My ideal way of playing would be either a cross between engineer/recon or recon/medic or engineer/medic.

All this conversations in the topic really gets me dreaming thinking of how the biomes would be like and the vast worlds we can explore.

I feel like jumping in em8er right this second in one of those Gateway portals, outfitted with my onesie g-suit to then wakeup and have strange debris under my shoes!

I think i have gone off topic somewhat but happy