The best f2p game that I can think of that I have been involved with (granted I have not been involved with very many) is Path of Exile. They, IMO, have knocked it out of the park. I have spent a lot of money on that game in 5 years and don't regret a bit of it and Grinding Gear Games is doing very well.
That said, I am with Kern on this and ftp is not the way to go for this game. I like the GW2 type of system where you buy the game then pay a smaller amount for large expansions.
That said, I am with Kern on this and ftp is not the way to go for this game. I like the GW2 type of system where you buy the game then pay a smaller amount for large expansions.
!Warning long post!
My honest opinion is that Ember needs a modified business model, not a clear cut subscription free, even one time payment scheme, or free to play, it needs an individual form of payment model catered to the gameplay and not the other way round.
Many games fall into the trap of publishers that want one type of monetizing method such as lottery for most F2P shooters or even the common "cosmetics" or exp/money bonus items, but from my own experience it is about how the game's mechanics/lore that interlace these optional items to make them not beneficial but special. For instance when we look at firefall F2P, I played little of it (a week or 2 at best 2014 period) red beans were used to lottery if I recalled or completing research fast, these convenience purchases made little money as these are generic to many and all games. Now compare it to warframe or even world of tanks, both games F2P but both are notable pioneers for the success of free to play and what do they offer when paying? Unique warframe "syandana" or "warframe skins" even prime warframes and founder status, world of tanks had gold shells, premium tanks, premium consumables, camo decals and etc. Both games also allowed the jumping of grind through use of plat/gold, it might even be said these are all play to win items yet why do more people spend on items that influence the game less like syndana's or camo and decals over more pay to win methods?
When looking at what drives the success or demand for these items, we can't look at the "potential" value for money because they are always generally refuted through the game's cultural stigma's. Lets be honest when playing those games people would say, premium shells/consumables, skipping research and etc isn't worth it since it is a matter of time vs money, or bad play. So comes the question of how demand is catered for syandana's, prime warframe, premium ammo, or premium tanks, most of which are not pay to win in most cases, however these items are unique to the game itself. Meaning, i can find normal cosmetics and skin colours (those woodland camos or modern day dress set in a fantasy world) in other games for guns to tanks in world of tanks, but syandana's (capes) are so special in warframe that it is a novelty on its own, the same applies to prime warframes. The concept of premium tanks generating more cash would garner pay to win votes till you realize said vehicles are weak if not suboptimal for their level of play(even breaking even or losing silver under poor play), or even premium shells costing fortunes just to kill one enemy. However people still buy them for competitive reasons and because these novelty items are only novelty to the respective game, you can't find another game that made you pay real money for items that have a higher chance to inflict damage, like we aren't even talking guarantees but better. These are items that generate the most money and even wargaming allows the conversion of in-game currency(silver) to buy premium ammo now.
Ember needs a payment model that has it's own identity to gather successful money, which is sustainable for the game's growth and future successes. Like we can talk about unlocking new zones, but details about it? I played ffxiv and i can say a new zone like heavensward is worth it not only because of the content it brings for end-game but by how interlinked this new zone and content is to the entirety of the game itself, from story to character's and even bosses. Crowdfunding new playable areas? is it going to be the movember style type of even that warframe did to promote moustaches that no other game ever did?
Did subscription fees drive away players from the most renowned game in the entire world, WOW, let alone produced actual academic potential regarding the spread of diseases. I am surely aware the developers of ember have more in-game experience with a large variety of games, but like when it comes down to how humble this money is being channelled within the game, we have to realize generic monetization methods never make money. It all boils down to how this monetization methods is made unique to the game's entirety.
Syndana's have their lore and generally beauty, premium tanks are experimental yet fantasical tanks, prime warframes are endowed with orokin origin, stuff that garner brand novelty, even if ember use the lottery system, it needs to be so unique like ffxiv's cactpot system? The game itself has to absorb and make these types of payment options special to the game itself, rather than having them for the sole purpose of payment.
I believe the potential of the ember's developer to play something out that can reflect this, a successful model really depends on how the game is meant to be played, if a sandbox is true to it's core, new zones being paid is counterproductive.
Instead some ideas could be focused on other aspects like mineral farming in "restricted areas", say these areas are too dangerous for the landing of normal thmpr's, what you get out of these areas are increased quantity of minerals but then you fight tougher mini bosses which require more people and you have less AI support in these restricted places.
Maybe even allowing for stuff like temporary base building/defense in the entire map instead of having to run all the way to ends for safety, however said bases can be destroyed by enemy attacks too so must be defended along with the thmpr till the minerals are all extract from the temporary base.
map integrity, etc. Money channelled to enchance these already existing features will generate the most demand no matter how ridiculous it sounds, ingame gambling, how so? I won't want to say these ideas are perfect, they do promote ideas of pay to win when seen from a very general sense (which is looked down upon) but it is these types of features that generate willing demand. Also the customization of omnisuits, please don't be typical colour changes, or one minor part aesthetic change, be daring and bold, make some fashion statement no other game has down before and maybe you would have a solid and supported method of monetizing.
TL;DR : Ember needs it's own brand when monetizing, an identity that people can relate to when a word or idea is brought up because of how novel and special it is to ember and no other game.
My honest opinion is that Ember needs a modified business model, not a clear cut subscription free, even one time payment scheme, or free to play, it needs an individual form of payment model catered to the gameplay and not the other way round.
Many games fall into the trap of publishers that want one type of monetizing method such as lottery for most F2P shooters or even the common "cosmetics" or exp/money bonus items, but from my own experience it is about how the game's mechanics/lore that interlace these optional items to make them not beneficial but special. For instance when we look at firefall F2P, I played little of it (a week or 2 at best 2014 period) red beans were used to lottery if I recalled or completing research fast, these convenience purchases made little money as these are generic to many and all games. Now compare it to warframe or even world of tanks, both games F2P but both are notable pioneers for the success of free to play and what do they offer when paying? Unique warframe "syandana" or "warframe skins" even prime warframes and founder status, world of tanks had gold shells, premium tanks, premium consumables, camo decals and etc. Both games also allowed the jumping of grind through use of plat/gold, it might even be said these are all play to win items yet why do more people spend on items that influence the game less like syndana's or camo and decals over more pay to win methods?
When looking at what drives the success or demand for these items, we can't look at the "potential" value for money because they are always generally refuted through the game's cultural stigma's. Lets be honest when playing those games people would say, premium shells/consumables, skipping research and etc isn't worth it since it is a matter of time vs money, or bad play. So comes the question of how demand is catered for syandana's, prime warframe, premium ammo, or premium tanks, most of which are not pay to win in most cases, however these items are unique to the game itself. Meaning, i can find normal cosmetics and skin colours (those woodland camos or modern day dress set in a fantasy world) in other games for guns to tanks in world of tanks, but syandana's (capes) are so special in warframe that it is a novelty on its own, the same applies to prime warframes. The concept of premium tanks generating more cash would garner pay to win votes till you realize said vehicles are weak if not suboptimal for their level of play(even breaking even or losing silver under poor play), or even premium shells costing fortunes just to kill one enemy. However people still buy them for competitive reasons and because these novelty items are only novelty to the respective game, you can't find another game that made you pay real money for items that have a higher chance to inflict damage, like we aren't even talking guarantees but better. These are items that generate the most money and even wargaming allows the conversion of in-game currency(silver) to buy premium ammo now.
Ember needs a payment model that has it's own identity to gather successful money, which is sustainable for the game's growth and future successes. Like we can talk about unlocking new zones, but details about it? I played ffxiv and i can say a new zone like heavensward is worth it not only because of the content it brings for end-game but by how interlinked this new zone and content is to the entirety of the game itself, from story to character's and even bosses. Crowdfunding new playable areas? is it going to be the movember style type of even that warframe did to promote moustaches that no other game ever did?
Did subscription fees drive away players from the most renowned game in the entire world, WOW, let alone produced actual academic potential regarding the spread of diseases. I am surely aware the developers of ember have more in-game experience with a large variety of games, but like when it comes down to how humble this money is being channelled within the game, we have to realize generic monetization methods never make money. It all boils down to how this monetization methods is made unique to the game's entirety.
Syndana's have their lore and generally beauty, premium tanks are experimental yet fantasical tanks, prime warframes are endowed with orokin origin, stuff that garner brand novelty, even if ember use the lottery system, it needs to be so unique like ffxiv's cactpot system? The game itself has to absorb and make these types of payment options special to the game itself, rather than having them for the sole purpose of payment.
I believe the potential of the ember's developer to play something out that can reflect this, a successful model really depends on how the game is meant to be played, if a sandbox is true to it's core, new zones being paid is counterproductive.
Instead some ideas could be focused on other aspects like mineral farming in "restricted areas", say these areas are too dangerous for the landing of normal thmpr's, what you get out of these areas are increased quantity of minerals but then you fight tougher mini bosses which require more people and you have less AI support in these restricted places.
Maybe even allowing for stuff like temporary base building/defense in the entire map instead of having to run all the way to ends for safety, however said bases can be destroyed by enemy attacks too so must be defended along with the thmpr till the minerals are all extract from the temporary base.
map integrity, etc. Money channelled to enchance these already existing features will generate the most demand no matter how ridiculous it sounds, ingame gambling, how so? I won't want to say these ideas are perfect, they do promote ideas of pay to win when seen from a very general sense (which is looked down upon) but it is these types of features that generate willing demand. Also the customization of omnisuits, please don't be typical colour changes, or one minor part aesthetic change, be daring and bold, make some fashion statement no other game has down before and maybe you would have a solid and supported method of monetizing.
TL;DR : Ember needs it's own brand when monetizing, an identity that people can relate to when a word or idea is brought up because of how novel and special it is to ember and no other game.
@Niryco
I stopped reading after the 2nd paragraph. All that trash is P2W. I'm not interested in anything resembling a Pay 2 Win game. Not now, not ever, never.
I buy a game to play the game. If I buy a multiplayer game I expect a level playing field. P2W kills the level playing field.
I am vehemently opposed to P2W, and I believe you'll find a great many other player are as well.
I stopped reading after the 2nd paragraph. All that trash is P2W. I'm not interested in anything resembling a Pay 2 Win game. Not now, not ever, never.
I buy a game to play the game. If I buy a multiplayer game I expect a level playing field. P2W kills the level playing field.
I am vehemently opposed to P2W, and I believe you'll find a great many other player are as well.
Likes:
taiiat and MollilMayhem
And you'll be finished with, or tired of, each of those games in 30 days. Whereas if you're playing your MMO to spend time with your online friends you're getting hundreds of hours for your money.
Likes:
MollilMayhem
That differs from person to person.
For some people its a matter of principle. They would rather play a game they can pick up at any time, or one that they have bought and owned and can play anytime. They may lose interest in 1 month, they might put it down for 6 months, but its always available to be played.
Then you look at a sub. When people burn out in a few months and hit the point where they are reduced to weekly lockouts they often times drop the game. After that they have to argue with themselves if enough content has been added in to make paying the sub fee "worth it" especially since they most likely will come back to a empty guild cause everyone else also burned out.
Its not like a F2P or B2P game where they can just boot it up and check out the latest patch. With a P2P its always money first, then determine if it was worth it.
For some people its a matter of principle. They would rather play a game they can pick up at any time, or one that they have bought and owned and can play anytime. They may lose interest in 1 month, they might put it down for 6 months, but its always available to be played.
Then you look at a sub. When people burn out in a few months and hit the point where they are reduced to weekly lockouts they often times drop the game. After that they have to argue with themselves if enough content has been added in to make paying the sub fee "worth it" especially since they most likely will come back to a empty guild cause everyone else also burned out.
Its not like a F2P or B2P game where they can just boot it up and check out the latest patch. With a P2P its always money first, then determine if it was worth it.
I have payed subs for about 4 games and pretty much enjoyed every minute of it, even though we were just weekend players and we had 2 people paying...that's $40 a month. My first sub was EQ1 way back when, and then I believe EQ2 was also a sub, although we didn't play that one very long. Next came LOTRO and we subbed to that for at least 3 years before they messed it up by adding Lothlorien and then locking it behind a HUGE quest grind wall. THEN they went FTP and we quit.
Next was SWTOR and we subbed to that from the beginning for another maybe 3 years. We checked it out again after they went FTP and we did NOT like it anymore (Part of the reason being we were spoiled for "normal" MMO combat by playing Firefall).
So I don't mind subs, the nice thing about them is they provide a steady source of income for the developers and I feel good about supporting a game I enjoy as long as I'm enjoying it. It also seems to keep the player base somewhat more "mature (?)", or at least older.
Buy to play and then paying something for expansions also works fine, but the cash shop needs LOTS of things in it to tempt me to spend "real" cash there, and they also have to be "reasonably" priced. The prices that Firefall had for some of the MGVs etc. were just ridiculous imo.
Just please stay away from FTP!!
Next was SWTOR and we subbed to that from the beginning for another maybe 3 years. We checked it out again after they went FTP and we did NOT like it anymore (Part of the reason being we were spoiled for "normal" MMO combat by playing Firefall).
So I don't mind subs, the nice thing about them is they provide a steady source of income for the developers and I feel good about supporting a game I enjoy as long as I'm enjoying it. It also seems to keep the player base somewhat more "mature (?)", or at least older.
Buy to play and then paying something for expansions also works fine, but the cash shop needs LOTS of things in it to tempt me to spend "real" cash there, and they also have to be "reasonably" priced. The prices that Firefall had for some of the MGVs etc. were just ridiculous imo.
Just please stay away from FTP!!
Likes:
Col. Kernel and Heron
I thought the prices for MGVs and other vehicles were reasonable. Until the recent changes where the supposed "account" item was made to be available to only one character on the account. I didn't want to know what would happen if the character who owned the vehicle was deleted...
I think the prices ($40 US?) was reasonable because of the work that went into designing and programming the things to work in the game. Heck... I pay that much for starships in Star Trek Online (the deal being sweetened by the fact they're availabe to every character on the account who can use them... in my case all THIRTY of them). And I bought them with $$$ despite the option to grind currency for them and had planned to buy more before my disappointement for the game showed up.
I have payed for subbed games. Three years of Everquest and another three years of Starwars Galaxies.
I think the prices ($40 US?) was reasonable because of the work that went into designing and programming the things to work in the game. Heck... I pay that much for starships in Star Trek Online (the deal being sweetened by the fact they're availabe to every character on the account who can use them... in my case all THIRTY of them). And I bought them with $$$ despite the option to grind currency for them and had planned to buy more before my disappointement for the game showed up.
I have payed for subbed games. Three years of Everquest and another three years of Starwars Galaxies.
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I prefer having a one time subscription fee or better yet having a alternative feature. Which player get to play for 1 month free trial, after that they need to pay a small subscription fee to play forever ($5~20). Relative enough to keep funding the game to be alive.
Now here is the alternative feature, player can play completely free if they complete a specific achievement. For example: Reach Max level before trial expire (if the game have leveling system), Complete solo boss fight or 50 win in pvp.
Hey you want it for free, just simply complete a few thing to get there. Thing don't come free without some effort put into them.
Now here is the alternative feature, player can play completely free if they complete a specific achievement. For example: Reach Max level before trial expire (if the game have leveling system), Complete solo boss fight or 50 win in pvp.
Hey you want it for free, just simply complete a few thing to get there. Thing don't come free without some effort put into them.
Thanks for the link, I did not know that this was out there. I do have to mention that even WoW is "F2P" until level 20 using a "trial" account:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/world-of-warcraft-starter-edition-account-faq
As you probably already know. This is one of the main reasons I refused to play WoW, but with a game that gives you the initial area for free and with new areas that cost a little money I could see doable. Again it's similar to Wizard101 and how their game is. My cousins are nuts over the game so I see their mom get the cards every so often. Also Guild Wars 2 is free to play with no subscriptions either, but I think they still include pay to get cosmetics and better gear and such... do not play GW2
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iv7fk/guild_wars_2_free_to_play_confirmed/
This is the "restrictions" that GW2 applies to their F2P accounts. Most I agree with except for the not being able to post on the forums... that seems a little odd to me.
The part I meant on official word is from Grummz post:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/world-of-warcraft-starter-edition-account-faq
As you probably already know
. This is one of the main reasons I refused to play WoW, but with a game that gives you the initial area for free and with new areas that cost a little money I could see doable. Again it's similar to Wizard101 and how their game is. My cousins are nuts over the game so I see their mom get the cards every so often. Also Guild Wars 2 is free to play with no subscriptions either, but I think they still include pay to get cosmetics and better gear and such... do not play GW2https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iv7fk/guild_wars_2_free_to_play_confirmed/
This is the "restrictions" that GW2 applies to their F2P accounts. Most I agree with except for the not being able to post on the forums... that seems a little odd to me.
The part I meant on official word is from Grummz post:
That opinion is shared by many that pay 2 Win isn't welcomed, but it isn't fair either to lump all pay to win as bad. Can a game be absolutely pay to win free? I don't believe and i don't believe all of them ruin game experience, example are the basic form of currency or exp booster is pay to win and many if not all games have them. Another would be premium tanks or prime warframe packages. All of which also don't ruin it but improve the gameplay for many players.
In conclusion, it is easy to agree with everyone but if we look at things objectively, we should not completely reject an idea all the way because it still has the potential to benefit the game overall.
In conclusion, it is easy to agree with everyone but if we look at things objectively, we should not completely reject an idea all the way because it still has the potential to benefit the game overall.
The problem I see with "P2W" (Pay To Win) games is that it eventually encourages toxic behavior. There will be players who have the money to pay to be better than everyone else, and those players will have a huge sense of entitlement over those who are playing through the game.
And I was just thinking... Don't "P2W" games depend on "whales" to keep them going?
And I was just thinking... Don't "P2W" games depend on "whales" to keep them going?
Whales? Sorry I am clueless about that term, do you mind if I clarify what you mean?
However I won't deny that pay to win can breed disagreeable behaviour, though the focus should be on which type of pay to win content actually generates those responses? I am sure that not all do, only a specific hand full do.
However I won't deny that pay to win can breed disagreeable behaviour, though the focus should be on which type of pay to win content actually generates those responses? I am sure that not all do, only a specific hand full do.
Movie for 2 = 6 hours, max. With a $20/month sub you play for 6 hours and you break even. That's an hour a night for a week, and you take a night off to do something else.
If a sub makes it feel like you're obligated to play, yeah, that's wrong. That's like saying paying for a buffet obligates you eat until you hurt.
I'm Ok, with a mixed model, like a sub+F2P, as long as the sub doesn't have content locked behind paywalls, gets the full game and a stipend of cash shop coins to buy cosmetics with. And no P2W garbage in the cash shop.
Speaking of cash shop prices, I know art assets costs money to make. But when you put 'em in the cash shop I don't expect the price to be that each one bought pays for the cost to make it. Once they're made you have an infinite number of them to sell. Price them reasonably and you'll recoup your investment a lot sooner.
I pay $5 for some sunglasses IRL. I'm not paying that in a cash shop. I pay $25 (or more for better quality) for a shirt IRL, I'm NOT paying that for it in a cash shop.
If a sub makes it feel like you're obligated to play, yeah, that's wrong. That's like saying paying for a buffet obligates you eat until you hurt.
I'm Ok, with a mixed model, like a sub+F2P, as long as the sub doesn't have content locked behind paywalls, gets the full game and a stipend of cash shop coins to buy cosmetics with. And no P2W garbage in the cash shop.
Speaking of cash shop prices, I know art assets costs money to make. But when you put 'em in the cash shop I don't expect the price to be that each one bought pays for the cost to make it. Once they're made you have an infinite number of them to sell. Price them reasonably and you'll recoup your investment a lot sooner.
I pay $5 for some sunglasses IRL. I'm not paying that in a cash shop. I pay $25 (or more for better quality) for a shirt IRL, I'm NOT paying that for it in a cash shop.
Likes:
Heron