Monetization, Player Popuation, and Instancing

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
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#1
So here is what we know so far, Mark plans to sell the game for a flat amount along with expansions and an in game store for in between cash flow. The question remains, how exactly is this all going to effect how the final game plays.

I am not sure how much thought has been put into this as yet since we are still very very early in game development, perhaps my suggestion isn't even feasible, perhaps this won't even work with the unreal engine, but I wanted to throw this out there for consideration.

If any of you have played Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO you are familiar with the way they do story instancing. For those who have not just a bit of a run through. Basically in tOR there is a giant main map in which all players run around in, but in various sections, ranging from a single room up to a reasonably large complex the map is divided off by a glowing plane which once passed actually splits the players off seamlessly into a private instance in which they can play through story driven missions without having to fight other players for mobs and collectible items.

https://youtu.be/SVDPfReFpfs?t=1257
(can't embed video with a specific time)

In essence when you are inside a private instance you disappear to anyone in the main area, but you yourself can look back over the instance threshold and still see anyone close by in the main instance. What is really cool is that there is NO loading screen, you walk between the area's without any noticeable change. If you are grouped up with other players then the person who goes into a private instance pulls everyone else into the instance with them.

How exactly does this relate to EM-8ER? Well what I would like to suggest is using this same style of instancing for this game as well. Here is how I picture it working. Firstly we have a single large map in which everyone has access to, but certain sections of this map can be “roped off” to separate players out, either for storyline missions or to differentiate between “free” players and those who have paid money for the game. In terms of graphic design all of the instances will basically be identical, so no extra work will be required on that end. The big key here is that the home base on any map is also one of these instances as well.

What happens is that players who haven't payed any money get dumped into a "basic" home instance that is missing key characters, whether it is vendors allowing for paid item content or quest givers that introduce side quests or further any main questline. The paid instance will have these characters, and perhaps an extra building or some other graphical adjustments. The border of this area could be represented by a glowey shield that protects the base from environmental threats (other locations might not have any visible indication).

Outside of the central base on a map the whole area is open to everyone. Various sections of the map will be instanced for questline stuff, but the base area will also be open to everyone for use in events like what Firefall had. When grouped up, players will always default to the unpaid zone if they have a “free” player in the group rather than splitting people up. If a player doesn't have a quest active for a particular area then they will remain in the open world rather than being spun off into a private instance.

So why bother with all of this complexity? The answer is player population. One of the key parts in any MMO type game (whether we want to refer to EM8ER as an MMO, it is still a multiplayer focused game) is maintaining a large population within the game world for people to play with. At the same time it is important that players not become frustrated by being forced to compete with all of these people for key quest items that might result from random drops/kills/spawns. By taking this aproach we can have both players who have bought the game as well as players who have not yet committed, all able to interact while still allowing full monetization.

There is another aspect to this as well, and that is the ability to sequester resource intensive activities into carefully controlled boxes. As an example, I remember when Thump Dump would have an invasion and we would get tons and tons of players all congregating within that instance which slowed the entire game as a whole to a crawl as well as limited the npc AI to the IQ of a lima bean. With this option there would not be any of this issue as all those players would have been spun off into smaller instances outside of the main zone. And that is the other thing, smaller instances means larger population per square meter. 10 players over 100 square meters is going to look more populated than 50 players over 10,000 square meters. (numbers obviously for example) The key here is to keep the world busy whether there are a few players or a lot of players on at the time.

TL:DR This is how I see the instancing broken up within the game:

~Main Game (Demo)~

Full game instance with access to standard resources and full instance events (like tornado's or drop ships in Firefall).

“Freemium” home base iteration which contains all generated buildings, and some vendors allowing access to a limited range of basic gear as well as access to "in game store" vendors for some small monetization. It would also be good to include the first couple main story quests to get players hooked into the game world.

DEMOGAME.jpeg

~Main Game (Paid)~

Full game instance with access to all resources and full instance events.

Home Base iteration with all generated buildings and all Quest and Vendor NPC's thus allowing main quest and all available gear options.

Storyline Area's overlayed on top of event area's which split the player off into main or side questlines without interrupting other players.

FULLGAME.jpeg


Expansions would work exactly the same way, those who have paid money for the expansion will have access to all of the content while those who have not paid will be able to access the zone and participate in group activities but will not have access to the premium content. Note that the only difference between a paid and free account would be flags telling the game what base instance to place the player in and possibly flags for what resources they can own (if there are any to be excluded).
 

zdoofop

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
531
766
93
Noneofyourbeeswaxistan
#2
this is a horrible idea.

1. There won't be any free players because the game is buy to play

2. paying more to get access to other areas that look exactly the same is pointless.

3. a game that changed its business model like this before it is even released would not last long.
 
Likes: Estender

Torgue_Joey

Kaiju Slayer
KAIJU 'SPLODER
Jul 27, 2016
1,123
2,703
113
Germany
#3
THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF RIGHT NOW (TOO F*CKING TIRED) ABOUT "SEAMLESSLY INSTANCED" IS THIS TERRAFORMING POCKETS, OR HOW MARK CALLED IT. WE WON'T BE TERRAFORMING THE ENTIRE F*CKING PLANET, BUT SECTION BY SECTION.

STORY AND HOME WISE, YES WOULD MAKE SENSE. ALL ELS IS SH*T. WELL, THAT F*CKING OPINION OF MINE DEPENDS HOW "CRIXA LAB" IMPLEMENT THAT SH*T.
 
Jul 26, 2016
153
186
43
#7
I know I always say that the developers should take ideas from other games that work and roll them all into one, but, in the case of MMOs, especially WoW-clones and those Star Wars games, EM-8ER should not look to those. They are the very games EM-8ER should break away from, in every way. They are an example of how not to do a game.

.
Not exaaactly. There are a lot of awesome features and hardware in both WoW and FFXIV for example that breathe a lot of life into the world and keep you going to every corner of it instead of simply disregarding entire zones or 90% of the map because it was for a lower level bracket and is of no use at end game.

Complete and total scaling of all mobs in Legion and WQ's did a great job making every zone viable for end game content; something we all know this game will need to do and do very well to stand out against WoW and FFXIV; although FFXIV doesn't scale all mobs afaik but instead scales the player down which can be lackluster - so there is one thing to look at and use but a change to make.

You still need to look at what is out there and what you'll have as competition even in the slightest. Innovations made here and there if applicable to this game here if modified to fit the game are totally worth checking out. Just because you're looking at it doesn't mean you have to CTRL+C / CTRL+V it into your game. It needs worked into the game and if it can't be done then so be it.

tldr; Shouldn't disregard all other games mechanically because yours needs to be completely unique. If a system is good and brings life it's worth evaluating if it can be put to use.

On Topic: If i get the idea we wan't to reduce bottlenecks?

Simple things to reduce this exist without involving what may breed the evil "Pay to Win." mentality.

Phasing of areas.
Shared Mob tagging.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#8
Guys (and gals), the game is pay to play already. Apparently you all have forgotten what a demo is, a means of getting players hooked so that they pay money for for the game. In the example I made players would have access to some of the basic game components which would provide a taste of how the game plays, this is not intended to be a Free to Play model design. Sure someone could keep playing indefinitely without ever purchasing the game, but they would be accessing only a small part of the game content outside of the map design itself.
 

zdoofop

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
531
766
93
Noneofyourbeeswaxistan
#9
Guys (and gals), the game is pay to play already. Apparently you all have forgotten what a demo is, a means of getting players hooked so that they pay money for for the game. In the example I made players would have access to some of the basic game components which would provide a taste of how the game plays, this is not intended to be a Free to Play model design. Sure someone could keep playing indefinitely without ever purchasing the game, but they would be accessing only a small part of the game content outside of the map design itself.
what you're suggesting is exactly a free to play model design, mainly because you stole the idea from games with f2p model designs.
 
Jul 26, 2016
153
186
43
#10
Guys (and gals), the game is pay to play already. Apparently you all have forgotten what a demo is, a means of getting players hooked so that they pay money for for the game. In the example I made players would have access to some of the basic game components which would provide a taste of how the game plays, this is not intended to be a Free to Play model design. Sure someone could keep playing indefinitely without ever purchasing the game, but they would be accessing only a small part of the game content outside of the map design itself.
Honestly, may as well just offer a 1 week trial or if applicable create a stopping point. WoW stops you at level 20 I believe... but you can play as long as you want. There are currency restrictions and other stuff but.. you know.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#11
what you're suggesting is exactly a free to play model design, mainly because you stole the idea from games with f2p model designs.
Good lordy, simply because I used the idea of seamless story instancing from another game doesn't make my entire concept Free to Play. Nor does having access to a small portion of the game without paying make the game a Free to Play model.
 

Biz

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 30, 2016
37
73
18
#12
Demo or not having part of the game be F2P radically changes the game design at its core. I believe the model mentioned by devs was Buy to Play. Something that is unambiguous and leaves no room for most forms of free content. Look at GW1, If I recall correctly it had nothing beyond trial weekends and buddy keys for 1 day or something akin to that. Still managed to go from nothing to top 10 best-selling PC games 6 or so years later because it was a solid game that was Made for its financial model from the day one. Being buy to play MMO at the time when all other mumorpugers were either freemium or monthly sub with or without a box purchase, meant it had it's own niche of the market that was otherwise unoccupied. It also meant that it did not have to draw out the content consumption or drip content updates to players one quest, suit of armor or raid at a time.
You got entire world in one go, a compleat game with everything, player progression was short and sweet, item progression was nonexistent after you got to "max level items" and all maxed items could have same statistics, only visuals changed.

B2P games work even with a smaller player base, as 100% of your players actually bought the game, compared to something like 10% in the F2P games.