Ironsighting and Scoping-in...with a Mech? Alt-Fire instead.

#1
Iron-sighting or scoping in with the mech?

How would that look?

Obtrusive, for one. No matter how sleek our mech and its attached or held weaponry will be, it'd still probably block some of the screen in FPS-mode or when iron-sighting/scoping.

Would/should the camera snap to an over-the-shoulder or above-the-barrel view, or should it center as if it was on the chassis (whether we would have the option for closed-ones or not)?

I imagine that the only type of build that would be comfortable with a quasi-cockpit p.o.v., in either FPS or scoped view, would be ones that would aim at long-range. Perhaps we'd see a bit of the arms or the weapon extended, above and to the side, but on our HUD, we'd see more of the environment, with a wider field-of-view, with the targeting reticle, as the sensors on our weapon would feed targeting-info to our HUD, as if our mech and weapon had eyes. This could easily fit into the lore of how the mech would work. The sci-fi of it. Whether we'd have an open or closed cockpit, our HUD would be the (user-determined) partially opaque, augmented-reality info-overlay. (*gasp* Tactical-info Overlay - T.i.O or A.R.i.O., ...never mind that...should have a nifty abbrv. name, though.)

However, outside of long-range builds (where zooming in would be the alt-fire), all weapons should have an alternate fire-mode. If I remember correctly, that is how it was in Firefall, back in beta-stages and many if not all off that was removed.

Take the Shock Rail, for example. The weapon has an iron-sight, down-the-barrel alt-fire mode in right-click, when it has virtually no spread, so the small amount of magnification and slightly larger field-of-view it gives, is really of no use, it's easy to hit a target with. I remember a weapon from Unreal Tournament, which could shoot a slow-moving orb with the secondary-fire and then it could be made to explode, doing AoE, when it was shot by the primary-fire. Similarly to how the Shock Rail is used, except it doesn't have a proper, different alt-fire (or perhaps not anymore).

Or take grenade launchers. Arc one to any spot and the alt-fire would detonate it, similarly to mine-layers. With an extensive modding system, the detonation-method should have its very own mod-slot. By default, a grenade-launcher's propelled explosive would explode on contact with any surface or enemy. But, then, one could install a remote-detonation mod on it so it can be set off when the user wants it. Also, it could be modified to 'only' explode when it hits an enemy, but when it would hit, bounce off or attach itself to a surface, it could function as a remote explosive or mine that could be denoted at the user's discretion. This way, the first enemy to come close to it, wouldn't prematurely set it off and the user could wait until more targets would move within the blast radius, maximizing effectiveness. This way, people who like their grenade launchers could build a weapon that could fulfill that function or it could essentially give them a weapon that spams remote explosives.

All of this could be an attempt to give more functionality to weapons (or a single omni-weapon) and the two fire-modes could be tuned and modded separately. It would facilitate faster combat and add more versatility, without having to jump back and forth between camera views that would potentially hamper our view of the environment.

Or maybe...

Iron-sighting/scoping-in and alt-fire could be two different things, mapped to two different keys. What I mean is, a weapon could be modified to be effective at mid-range (however long mid-range would be - as I said, it could easily be from 150m). It wouldn't be a sniper-build per say, but the user would need a bit of magnification for precision, to make out targets better. Scoping in or iron-sighting wouldn't make the weapon use its alt-fire, but would magnify what the HUD displays (since the pilot wouldn't really be relying just on their own eyes - it would see through the mech's, its sensors) with targeting-info possibly highlighting hostiles, showing their distance and potentially additional info, like weaknesses, with the proper mods slotted and/or skills unlocked. And from there, the alt-fire could still be used the same way.

I don't know where, but I vaguely remember a sci-fi film, series or game, where a person had something like a holographic screen floating in front of them, they turn with it and by picking at it with their fingers they magnified what they were looking at through it. The omni-frame's open or closed chassis could function the same way. Projecting (and overlaying with info) the environment on a wide-display, in an open or closed cockpit, in front of the pilot's face and magnifying targets if and when they'd be iron-sighting or scoping-in for precision.

We will be our frame and our weapon.

We will see not only through one or even two eyes, but three.

We will fight not only through one extension of ourselves, but two.

The weapon won't simply be an extension of the frame. Not merely the extension of an extension. It would link back to us. The three forming a triangle. A trinity.
 
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EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
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Jul 26, 2016
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#2
Alternate Weapon Functions
The default alt fire button is a 2x zoom with a 25% reduced omniframe speed and visual blurring around the screen edges to somewhat limit the field of view. However there can be various mods that directly alter the alt fire from this default, including but not limited to adding multi-shot capability, auto or remote targeting capability, separate damage projectiles (grenade launcher etc), additional zoom or even RoF/Arc modes.
This was my post on alt fire from my mods thread which I know you read...partially :p I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method, well kissing in general but I digress. I think that a simple Field of View change might impart the proper zoom factor, but I personally wouldn't want to add in any extraneous elements that do not need to be there. That said, if you don't care for a small zoom bonus to be your alt fire, I think you should be able to pick from a wide variety of options (aka mods :p)
 
#3
This was my post on alt fire from my mods thread which I know you read...partially :p I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method, well kissing in general but I digress. I think that a simple Field of View change might impart the proper zoom factor, but I personally wouldn't want to add in any extraneous elements that do not need to be there. That said, if you don't care for a small zoom bonus to be your alt fire, I think you should be able to pick from a wide variety of options (aka mods :p)
Well, in the Shock Rail's case, I really don't (or should I, now, say...didn't) use the secondary-fire, which is just aiming down sight, since I found that I cannot really see the target(s) or my surroundings that much better, if any better at all, and the weapon had no spread, which meant I was practically firing a sniper rifle without scoping in and it was perfectly accurate, so there was no need for additional zoom. It didn't need zoom. It needed an alt-fire a lot more than a zoom. No need for blurring either. After all, we'll have our sight enhanced through our frames.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
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#4
Well, in the Shock Rail's case, I really don't (or should I, now, say...didn't) use the secondary-fire, which is just aiming down sight, since I found that I cannot really see the target(s) or my surroundings that much better, if any better at all, and the weapon had no spread, which meant I was practically firing a sniper rifle without scoping in and it was perfectly accurate, so there was no need for additional zoom. It didn't need zoom. It needed an alt-fire a lot more than a zoom. No need for blurring either. After all, we'll have our sight enhanced through our frames.
Right which is why the 2x zoom is the "default" alt fire, which doesn't mean it is the best or most useful. You could easily throw a grenade launcher onto a sniper rifle to deal with close in encounters or multiple targets etc.
 
#5
Right which is why the 2x zoom is the "default" alt fire, which doesn't mean it is the best or most useful. You could easily throw a grenade launcher onto a sniper rifle to deal with close in encounters or multiple targets etc.
Well, I could. But, then it comes down to personal preference more than to what is effective. For me. A grenade launcher might be the most effective way to clear enemies around and close to me, from an independent point of view. But my bias and taste says, I dislike grenade launchers, in fact, using a grenade launcher, while playing as a sniper, is disgraceful.

Keeping iron-sighting/scoping separate from alt-fire and allowing iron-sight/scoping for both primary and alt-fire would be a good system, even if nothing new.
 

Vladplaya

Commander
Em-8er Contributor
Jul 27, 2016
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#9
I sure hope they will have zoom/scope in with variety of scopes and sights that we can use on our guns.

It shouldn't make any difference if we are playing as mecha or not. It's just a character, it would work exactly the same as hundreds of third person shooters out there.

As far as keys go; right mouse click should be zoom/scope, and alt fire should be bound to a separate key that changes fire mode from primary to alt. So you always use left mouse button to shoot, but fire mode key toggles what you are shooting.
This is pretty standard set up that is familiar to great majority of players through out multiple genres, and there is really no need to trying to reinvent the wheel by coming up with something else.
 
#10
I sure hope they will have zoom/scope in with variety of scopes and sights that we can use on our guns.

It shouldn't make any difference if we are playing as mecha or not. It's just a character, it would work exactly the same as hundreds of third person shooters out there.

As far as keys go; right mouse click should be zoom/scope, and alt fire should be bound to a separate key that changes fire mode from primary to alt. So you always use left mouse button to shoot, but fire mode key toggles what you are shooting.
This is pretty standard set up that is familiar to great majority of players through out multiple genres, and there is really no need to trying to reinvent the wheel by coming up with something else.
Let's have it, then. :cool:
 
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#12
You're overthinking it. That's why you only show the tip of the weapon so they aren't obtrusive. Plenty of games already do this.
Sure, but that, uh...input...should/could easily be separate from secondary-fire. It could be player determined via options menu whether they'd want the camera to snap to the barrel on secondary or even primary-fire. Have it for both fire-modes. Those who play MMOs and such shooters in FPS-mode wouldn't mind any of it, anyway. This is more of an issue for third-person. Most of the time, I wanna see myself and my mech, like a damn narcissist, and ask if it makes my ass look big.
 

DARKB1KE

Commander
Jul 27, 2016
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#14
Sure, but that, uh...input...should/could easily be separate from secondary-fire. It could be player determined via options menu whether they'd want the camera to snap to the barrel on secondary or even primary-fire. Have it for both fire-modes. Those who play MMOs and such shooters in FPS-mode wouldn't mind any of it, anyway. This is more of an issue for third-person. Most of the time, I wanna see myself and my mech, like a damn narcissist, and ask if it makes my ass look big.
I'm just talking about looks/aesthetics, could care less if it's alt fires or scopes...

Let's take a look at Hawken as an example. You have different guns and different cockpits depending on the mech you're in, of course. That being said, some cockpits are more obstrusive than others, while others are a bit more minimal and you can see more with less bars in your face. Same goes for some of the guns on the sides, they don't stick out too far, you can still see enemies to your left and right.







Notice the difference in these screenshots?
 
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Thunderstrike

Omni Ace
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Aug 29, 2016
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#15
Mankind Divided has an interesting iron-sight mode for the grenade launcher. Essentially it projects an image of the grenade's arc so that the holder can accurately predict where the grenade will land (not accounting for bouncing).

Honestly though, I don't think most weapons should have an alt-fire except close-range weapons. Sniper rifles for instance need the scoping function and the user should be skilled enough not to need an alt-fire. On the topic of scoping itself though, a system like HALO 5's "smart scope" where it zooms in and creates a holographic display. Would work well in both first person and third person.
 

Legend57

Omega Founder
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Jul 27, 2016
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#16
I think Scoping should be classified as an alt-fire - with the fast moving and fast targeting, there'd be no real point to using an ironsight IMO.
As for the HUD and scoping - I imagined there'd be a HUD with a simple crosshair (based on your weapon) and when you wanted to scope the HUD would be updated with a scoping screen on the side that's basically like a zoom cam - it'd be so you can both see straight ahead in normal view and also see down the scope (the scope screen would have its own crosshair with additional aiming addons or smth.
 

Daynen

Active Member
Aug 3, 2016
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#17
You know, I could've SWORN that the shock rail's alt-fire was the orb...I know they took away the power to detonate it with a shot, but I could swear it was still there when I quit FF...I don't recall being able to zoom with that weapon, though I do recall a universal 'look-zoom' kind of feature that you could bind to a key and make use of...

Let's see...base engi had the tesla/repair...bastion had the sticky nades--oh YEAH, the bastards swapped those two, pissed me off--and the electron had the zap/orb combo, unless my memory is COMPLETELY faulty--and I tend to have crystalline memories about games I like...Once they swapped the bastion and base engi's weapons, I hated the engi class as a whole because I hated the bastion and now the sticky launcher was exclusively his...damnit Red5.