Cultural problems in a globally-connected game world

[Sy]

There will be problems in an interconnected game world grouped by ping.

There are different people in different places, and there are sometimes unresolvable differences between players in different locales.

Don't lie to yourself and play pretend that everyone is exactly the same, will be forced into some unified perspective, or will "see the light" and change to mix in with another culture.

Tryhards waltzing into a ping region that's relaxed will damage the market, and cultural problems will have people with different personalities disrupt others.

Next will be problems of language. All communication and language will start mixing on global chat, with varying incompatible and loud personalities making others simply turn it off and not participate.

A connected world will force players into cliques and clans designed to shelter them from the greater world. If they aren't provided by the game, then players will manually form boundaries; minorities will withdraw into their own neighborhoods, etc.

This is how humans work.

Have separate servers and let players pick where they make an account.

 

[zdoofop]

Interesting points, ngl.

Language is an easy one, see https://modworkshop.net/mod/29967

The truth is that in any game, someone can make characters on another server, so simply separating into instances won't solve the problem. And it's not like you'll randomly be placed into a region for Europeans if you're in Canada, the starting regions will be chosen based on locality. And we already have plans for clans anyway. And you run into the same problems in the real world. Point is, there's nothing really to worry about here that can be fixed simply by having separate instances.

 

[Omnires]

Anyway, lots of games has to deal with this and fixed it in a number of ways while still letting people from all over the world play on the same severs and maps. In some mmos I often team up with people who are on the other side of the planet from me with no problems.

 

[Pandagnome]

Don't lie to yourself and play pretend that everyone is exactly the same, will be forced into some unified perspective, or will "see the light" and change to mix in with another culture.

Perhaps an Em8er Etiquette guide that may help to bridge our community so we are all on the same page.

A connected world will force players into cliques and clans designed to shelter them from the greater world. If they aren't provided by the game, then players will manually form boundaries; minorities will withdraw into their own neighborhoods, etc.

This is how humans work.

I think the social area and events could bring clans / houses to a place where we are getting to know the others and welcome newer players in the process too.

There is going to be different clans and i think the houses could play a part in linking them.

what if there are individuals not in any that can still support them could have Freelance Reaper Tag.
This is to indicate they are not in any clan and are willing to assist the others.

 

[AhmNee]

Is it bad that the title of this thread threw off "social justice" red flags when I read it?

One of the things Mark said, way back when he first put out the sign up to see how many people would be interested in the creation of a spiritual successor to Firefall, was that his idea that building an MMO for a niche community could be profitable.

IMHO, "niche" is important part to remember. By catering to everyone, you cater to no-one. While we hope that everyone will enjoy this game and join us, we don't really *want* everyone to become a part of our community either. Down that road lies the way of the Warhammer 40K community and the D&D community where Hegelian Puritans (aka the Woke) attempt to change the game to fit their religion pulling the focus away from a good, read fun, game.

Our community will invariably create a pseudo-culture of it's own. Some people will integrate and be welcomed, others will not and it's okay that they don't stick around. Em8ER is a game for it's fans, not necessarily going to be for "everyone".

I believe that gamers, by and large, are a welcoming sort of people (there are outliers, certainly). We like it when people are interested in what interests us. I don't believe we need to police the community to get to that place. I believe we're already there. I see it whenever someone new joins our discord, I feel it every time someone poses a good question and the group or Grummz interacts with it, in good faith no-less.

I don't think we need to overthink, or handwring over it. Based on what I know of this community already, I trust that we'll do just fine.

Does that make sense or have I totally missed the target?

 

[Pandagnome]

Does that make sense or have I totally missed the target?

I don't believe we need to police the community to get to that place. I believe we're already there. I see it whenever someone new joins our discord, I feel it every time someone poses a good question and the group or Grummz interacts with it, in good faith no-less.

It does make sense, no harm in thinking about it just shows we are looking at every angle.

Nothing to do with Em8er but yesterday had a discussion with a person in a gym anyway he mentioned that everything was all online this and that people where replaced with automated services that were frustrating, and the current state of times.

Anyways a member of staff overheard our conversation from upstairs when the other person left. Mentioned thought you 2 were having an argument!

No one ever really speak much about that i mean it is all the norm like robots swiping scanning and doing the business. Oh yes and that his teen was so fascinated by some Kadasian person who just pouts and has big melons ..... well i could only shrug times have sure changed.

What i like is some sort of guideline its not a rule its just saying have a look its more commonsense than anything. Available for anyone to take a read nothing complicated and that way there is something for anyone to refer back incase something was overlooked.

Our community will invariably create a pseudo-culture of it's own. Some people will integrate and be welcomed, others will not and it's okay that they don't stick around. Em8ER is a game for it's fans, not necessarily going to be for "everyone".

If the community is welcoming and friendly this should help and ofc the social area too.
Your right though it might not be for everyone but who knows some people may change their minds after seeing a friend of theirs playing or on some reviewers site etc etc

 

[Sy]

Language is an easy one, see https://modworkshop.net/mod/29967

Eww!

The truth is that in any game, someone can make characters on another server, so simply separating into instances won't solve the problem..

I'm thinking in terms of greater cultural collision, not individual actors (or bad actors).

You're right that people will be forced into a local ping and that'll naturally separate people, but I'm arguing a worry for the need for a harder line than that.

One of the things Mark said, way back when he first put out the sign up to see how many people would be interested in the creation of a spiritual successor to Firefall, was that his idea that building an MMO for a niche community could be profitable.

IMHO, "niche" is important part to remember.

I remember that philosophy; thanks for the reminder, this perspective really helps put me at ease.

 

[zdoofop]

Eww!

What you got against Chat Translation?

 

[liandri]

Grouping in the game world by players by ping I the real world sounds interesting. Wouldn't have a clue how exactly that would work from a technical standpoint.

The language barrier is one concern I'd have. Had that barrier in Firefall on occasion with Portuguese. While it isn't hard to learn keywords on the fly based on what you know about how the game plays (you could thump with people who didn't talk and still make it work), it isn't for everyone. A real-time translator could be good, but I'd be dubious about how accurate it is.

The other concern I have is playing with people in this community. I know for a fact I've seen a couple of forum members in Firefall. I'd love to run across you guys in the field, assist with events, space trucking and THMPR defense, sit down in the social hub and chat... But can't, because I get 200-400 ping on US servers. If it is a giant world we are all on, how about travelling to different zones? I'd sacrifice great ping to play alongside you.

 

[carnack#4375]

In my opinion, when it comes to online games and multiplayer events, One should leave their "Self" at the keyboard/controller and become the "Character" they want to be in the game.

I know this is actually an incredibly difficult psychological thing to do, as many people either lack the ability to pretend, or are pretending too hard in their personal lives. The ability to change ones own mindset and values to become those that the RPG they are playing has, is foundational to the RPG world and increases immersion.

A good RPG enthusiast should be able to detach themselves and become something else when playing RPGs.

 

[Omnires]

On the idea of having a translator in the chat for people don't use the same language I remember there was an old work around that some games used back in the early days of MMOs. That is the use highlighted keywords and custom emojis.

The way it was done is that in all the languages the game supports the devs flagged key words to always be highlighted with a given color. These way even if you don't know what the other person is saying you have an idea of what they mean because the devs made this object always show as yellow in chat no matter what language it is typed in. This tactic needs the people who do the localization for the game in different languages to know that those key words and phrases need to flagged with the same color. After all, most games do this when they are make up the chat filters to censor out banded words. It is just and extra step to highlight key words.

The other way is by the game having a list of custom chat emotes that are easy for everyone understand. Like an emote of two sword clashing meaning battle or fight and the emote of a gravestone mean dead. Because in the early days of internet and MMOs (yes, I'm old.) I often played on severs that not in my language because those games was region locked. But I was still able to befriend and understand other plays by only talking in emotes. Every time I talked to someone or they wanted to talk to me, it would just look as hieroglyphics. Which made sense given as hieroglyphics was first made as way of people who couldn't read or write to understand the message that was on the stone or wall. After all, different languages have different words for the Sun but everyone knows what you mean when you draw a large round ball of light and/or fire in the sky.

P.s.
Some games even now still use the images as part of their chat system and have those images mean things. For example in the game PSO2 and PSO2 NGS if someone dies and need to revived in large chaotic battle rather than from having to type it out they can just post the image of a game character lying facedown on the ground.

 

[Pandagnome]

What you got against Chat Translation?

Not exactly perfect however if it is to do with words and small phrases could be good.
I also like the vocalizer in l4d2 that helps with communication

E.g
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698857882&searchtext=

some games used back in the early days of MMOs. That is the use highlighted keywords and custom emojis

If many are messaging could the words/emoji's be flooded so the original message is hard to find.
I am one that gets carried away with the poop emoji so i have to hold myself back otherwise its very tempting like putting a kick me notice on someones backside

I think animation/gestures can also be important too

The way it was done is that in all the languages the game supports the devs flagged key words to always be highlighted with a given color. These way even if you don't know what the other person is saying you have an idea of what they mean because the devs made this object always show as yellow in chat no matter what language it is typed in. This tactic needs the people who do the localization for the game in different languages to know that those key words and phrases need to flagged with the same color.

Made me think about how we can also learn certain key words/phrases in the same colour

I'd sacrifice great ping to play alongside you.

Yes just as long as the ping is not insane otherwise as a player could be not so helpful i think.

What about sounds i know we focus on the visual and motions, the sounds can be just as useful to indicate communication such as alerting us

Sounds to tell us if you have done well or not, only thing is the sound and additional overflow of info could be distracting to some. So Just like there are filters for customization of the pilot this could be good to filter on the players end what they would like to see and hear and the frequency.

Could it mean if they completely filter, or at least keep the important comms open since they do not always pop up every second.

 

[punkbuzter#6186]

There will be problems in an interconnected game world grouped by ping.

There are different people in different places, and there are sometimes unresolvable differences between players in different locales.

Don't lie to yourself and play pretend that everyone is exactly the same, will be forced into some unified perspective, or will "see the light" and change to mix in with another culture.

Tryhards waltzing into a ping region that's relaxed will damage the market, and cultural problems will have people with different personalities disrupt others.

Next will be problems of language. All communication and language will start mixing on global chat, with varying incompatible and loud personalities making others simply turn it off and not participate.

A connected world will force players into cliques and clans designed to shelter them from the greater world. If they aren't provided by the game, then players will manually form boundaries; minorities will withdraw into their own neighborhoods, etc.

This is how humans work.

Have separate servers and let players pick where they make an account.

Path of Exile uses a separate server for chat, no matter where you are irl or what game server you connected to, the Global Chat uses the same server for everyone.
You could easily separate the different language in Global Chat by making a string of code during installation that defaults your Chat Language depending on what Installation Language you pick.

Let's say you install the game in Russian, you would automatically be connected to a Russian chat in game. The use of simple chat commands could be added to manually change channels or language.