==== MAIN POINTS ====
► Note from Ronyn:
In this Chief Chat Grummz outlines his grand vision for Em-8ers' post launch content, the long time plans that will take this game, and this universe, far into the future. Pay close attention Reapers, because here is where you will get a sense of why you'll want to be playing Em-8er for many years to come.
► CLARIFICATION FROM GRUMMZ:
I am adding stuff to the vision of the game POST-launch. Let me make that clear. The vision of the game for early access and launch is the same as in the Vision Book. But I’m letting you know where it’s all leading to. I’m letting you know what’s beyond that, where we’re headed.
So the idea is we want to paint the grand vision and we want to break it up into manageable funded steps. And we want to do this with crowdfunding, all the way. I don’t want to be in another situation again where I am beholden to an investor who just wants to make WoW... NO. F##K THAT. In order to do that, in order to get people interested in the project, it has to be a grand vision. It has to be something that says ultimately we want to end up here. But you know what? We’re going to roll it out into playable sections that are individually funded. And that’s taking it’s cue from how Elite Dangerous was supposed to be and what Warframe eventually did. But Warframe didn’t have a grand vision from the beginning. They just added systems and those systems aren’t connected.
I wanted to take this to a grander vision but, I was worried about… I was thinking a little too small. I got into games to innovate. I got into games to make games that we can’t play yet, that don’t exist yet.
This is definitely what I’m talking about with Em-8ER. I want to push the envelope. And I also want a plan. A plan where it’s playable early on and that’s broken up into phases. I don’t want to scare anybody. And I want to show that we’re making progress so, I want to break it up into these phases. **The initial phase has not changed.** I’m just telling you what lies beyond.
And what lies beyond DID change.
I was thinking a lot smaller. Post launch I was thinking ‘Oh we’ll add guilds. Yeah, that’s good. And we’ll add some vehicles for the invasion part. But I wasn’t thinking of it holistically as a system. And now I am. And because of the success of the community, and because we’ve got 30,000 people signed up already, and because we have such an amazing support group here, I’m thinking bolder about the future past launch.
► During this stream, Grummz confirmed that on next Tuesday [August 2, 2021] he will be streaming FFXIV and Thursdays will be reserved for EM-8ER Chief Chat updates.
==== GRUMMZ BRAINSTORMING ====
■ Remember usual caveats apply to these types of Impromptu Chief Chats.
■ Grummz is not setting anything in stone, he likes to discuss it with the community.
■ These are NOT 100% yes were going to do this, this is just Grummz getting your feedback/ideas during a chat.
► “What if we think about Em-8ER as an entire world and an entire society? Someone else earlier was throwing out the meme ‘We live in a society...’.” Well, I don’t have a better word for it. Maybe civilization? Let’s go over the story of Em-8ER.We put a lot of work into the story of Em-8ER and there’s still some areas that still need a lot of visualization work.
THE STORY OF EM-8ER:
Em-8er is a story about humanity’s (at least for the Gatestriders) last stand. The branch of humanity called the Gatestriders, they lost their homeworld. They’ve been sort of been canceled by the rest of the galaxy because they’ve drawn the ire of an advanced civilization that destroyed their homeworld. Nobody else wants to get their homeworld destroyed so they sort of shun the Gatestriders. The Gatestriders are traveling around on a massive space station they built, cobbled together from what remained of their planet. They’re trying to find a new world. They find Em-8ER. This is their last chance. They land on this planet which is barren, frozen, and volcanic in places, or a combination of the two. They have to open up the world. They have to start terraforming it and converting the planet over to a new homeworld for themselves [Reference to “The Expanse” – follow the Martian arc; and how they are terraforming Mars].
You ARE the Gatestriders.
The Gatestriders happen to be specialists in robotics. When humanity went out and founded the 30 plus colonies of the first human settlements, everybody had to adapt to their planet in different ways. Some of the colonies decided to do bio-engineering. That’s how we got cat girls. Cat girls were in zero-g habitats and it turned out that cat-like reflexes and flexibility was really key to surviving in zero-g habitats. That’s why there’s cat girls, cat dudes, and neko Grummz in Em-8ER. They’re called “Feli”. Jeff (Nethril) came up with that name, I think it’s a great name.
The Gatestriders over all, they survived the harsh gravity of their planet by using power suits. They have powered armor, and mecha. They solve all their problems with robotics. They have robotic assistants, AI assistants and things like this. This is how they conquered the harshness of their planet. They are bringing this technology to bear on Em-8ER. They are miners and frontiers men and women [Reference to Heinlein “Moon is a Harsh Mistress”, “Stranger in a Strange Land”, and “Starship Troopers”]. They are kind of “Heinlein-esque” in that they are very rugged individualists but they’ve banded together to tame the wild west [Reference to Heinlein’s book “The Cat Who Walks Through Walls”].
It got me thinking … What does this world require?
You as the player, you’re terraforming Em-8ER but, you’ve also arrived at a bad time because the Tsi-Hu have discovered this planet as well; for whatever nebulous reasons. This world is now a breakthrough point through a dimensional and time rift where the Tsi-Hu are pouring through. They are a race of malevolent creatures. They grew up and evolved on a harsh planet filled with giant monsters called Kaiju (strange beasts).
Now we have this war. And we have to stop the Tsi-Hu. [Hey, we’re not thinking too deep here, right because this is a fantasy game.] We have to stop them because they're bent on conquering the universe. They’re the flood. They’re going to come through like locusts and sweep through the entire universe with their Kaiju. Once they can get their space Kaiju up and running, imagine giant space whales. However they would travel through space using Kaiju instead of space crafts. That’s how they would do it.
So, as a player, not only do you have to carve out a new homeworld here, you some how have to stop the Tsi-Hu from spreading. And you’re not united because you’re all rugged individualists. You’re arranged into houses. Not all of you agree on the best approach. In fact, there’s another faction. A pirate faction, that doesn’t care about terraforming the planet. They just want to mine what the Kaiju have and be fully independent of this quasi-unified effort to terraform the planet.
Now we have a planet. We have a war. We have an alien faction. We have factions within the humans including the pirates, and we have a need to do various things on this planet.
Some of it is to fight the war. This is the first phase we’re focusing on.
These are for Firefall fans who like the exo-suits all the way up to folks who like to pilot larger mechs.
I’m now thinking of Em-8ER as a complete world system. Playing Final Fantasy XIV and I sort of love the trade skills. I have issues with the trade skills. The stuff I make isn’t really useful for anybody. But I like that they treat the trade skills like a separate job system. It has its own combat rotation. You can fail at them but’s not random it’s skill based. There are many different trade skills. Even fishing is its own mini-game.
In Em-8ER I think there’s a role for everybody. You don’t have to just be a mecha pilot and fight in the wars if you don’t want to. What does Em-8ER need? It needs people who can go out and mine. So, maybe there are more mining specialized mechs that you can assist the THMPR during the mining encounters. I actually have a mechanic in mind for that but, I’m not revealing yet. I’m going to show you, you’re going to play this in the playable mockup, rather than me just talking about it.
What if you wanted to be a miner more than you want to be a combat mech specialist? You can spec out your frame, either taking the current frame and maybe attaching some drilling accessories to it or something else. Or, maybe we create a whole new frame. [Star Citizen has a hundred different ships and they all have different tactical roles.] Or maybe you want to fight in invasions but you want to be in an interior specialist and you want to fight when it goes hand-to-hand inside the buildings. For that you need your light omniframe. You’re not going to fit a heavy omniframe into the interiors. So suddenly there’s a purpose for light frames that has a unique combat role. And there’s a role for heavy frames; there’s big beasties outside that are assaulting your bases and you need to defend against that so you could do that.
So what else does a planet like Em-8ER need?
You need miners, you need base builders, right? What if you wanted to specialize in construction? Remember that the whole point of making this after WoW was we wanted to make a Starcraft MMO, right? What if you could pilot an SCV? What if that was your shtick? What if you wanted to go around and help build these bases? And what if there was a whole game play loop to support that? And an end game to support that? You could go out and have that sort of role and your mech could be tailored to be more like an SCV in Starcraft. This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about.
Or, what if you want to be a farmer, you need food right? In the lore of the world, we talk about how they can’t wait to start farms on Em-8ER. They have them on Home. There’s acres of farmland there. Darla works on a farm. She’s a mechanic and she fixes up mecha but she also out there farming grain.
What about a game like Harvest Moon? That’s another one of my favorite games. What if we had non-combat roles in Em-8ER? You could mine or till the land and have a farming game and be real social about it.
What if we had entertainers? One of my favorite moments in Final Fantasy XIV was discovering the “FFXIV Song Birds” – a troupe of bards and dancers who go out and perform concerts. They’re playing midi music and stuff like this.
We have combat and non-combat jobs. We have a job-like system. We have different pursuits.
Maybe you just want to be a farmer or an terraforming engineer?
What if we made it more simulation than in current MMOs?
I have a LOT of ideas and I’m not ready to present them all yet.
Space Truckers… “Convoy”, the movie… Star Citizen…
There’s always a zone that is being invaded.
What if these resources have to be convoyed? I worked with one of our concept artists and said, I want players to have a mission where they have to haul resources to the front lines. They have to do it over terrain. They have to have cargo, like an 18-wheeler to a specific location on the war front.
This game is bigger than your character. It’s your character plus whatever machinery you’re operating to master your game play loop. So this space trucking idea of getting resources to the front line of the invasion… space truck crew… Thunderbirds 1, 2, and 3. Thunderbirds 2 had the multi-purpose cargo carriers.
This hasn’t been completely thought out yet.
I want what Chris Roberts refers to as physicality and fidelity. That doesn’t mean I’m going to go nuts on graphics by the way. This game has to run on many different systems. I’ll talk about that later about Unreal making that a possibility.
[Grummz is thinking of maps bigger than 8x8 km. sq.]
[Referenced, “The Wandering Earth” (Chinese movie).]
This is going to be a much more character-centric game than we were first thinking of. People kept asking me if they could get out of their mech.
We want to be the ultimate Sci-Fi Mech Fantasy experience.
And we’re breaking it up into phases; that’s never changed. First phase is invasions and mining, right? And the vehicles we need just to support that. But it’s a living breathing thing. And that’s just the Kickstarter phase and after that we would continue to have crowdfunding for sections of the game. We used to call it milestone based funding, right? The first milestone was a website, the second was building the THMPR, and now we’re on the [third] one where we’re building a playable mockup with a thumping encounter. This is what we’re talking about in the future … and you have to paint a big vision of the future if you’re going to successfully crowdfund something like an MMO.
We treat our customers like our publishers, if we don’t deliver, the next milestone doesn’t get funded. Instead of calling it milestone funding, we’re calling it feature-based funding. Or think of it as DLC sections of the game. This was always the plan, we’re just narrowing in on the marketing and branding of how to do this.
==== GENERAL POINTS ====
► Everyone welcome Randy T! He designed our new pet for July’s Em-8er Monthly Patron skin! He also designed Crodus, the First Kaiju Prime. Crodus is undergoing a little bit of a face lift. We’ve got some cool ideas coming up for that.
==== Q & A ====
► Question: Is EM-8ER combat targeting?
Ronyn: No tab targeting. EM-8ER is a true shooter. You aim and move with skill and reflexes. A variety of skill levels will be possible depending on how you build your mech, but ultimately its a shooter. Would you like to see some game play videos?
► Question: So is it safe to say you’re thinking similarly to a “work as play” model where chores like supply lines become gaming content?
Grummz: I’m not sure what “work as play” means. The work is game play which is true in final fantasy.
*went over story of EM-8ER
► Question: I like the ideas presented and I like that you have a plan for EM-8ER. But what is the endgame? I get it’s an MMO but how are things going to progress in the war? Is there a way the war can end?
Grummz: No, there is no planned end for the war, but at the same time I’m talking about multiple end games, as in different endgame loops, though we don’t know what that's like right now.
► Question: How are pets going to work in EM-8ER?
Grummz: For now they will just be cosmetic companions. You can summon them at home and/or probably summon them on many of your mechs and vehicles.
==== FUN STUFF! ====
► Grummz Maid Outfit From The Past
Ronyn: “Okay now Grummz, does your real life maid costume fit the same way it did in your 20’s?”
Grummz: ”You know I have to admit I gained a few pounds since I was a teenage maid. So...”
[laughter]
Grummz: “And the cat ears weren't possible until I met with Elon Musk and he provided the technology.”
Ronyn: “He’s doing good work.” [laughs]
► FAI’s thanks raffle winner! ` ♦ Mako ♦ `
Twitch VOD link!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1101925030
► Note from Ronyn:
In this Chief Chat Grummz outlines his grand vision for Em-8ers' post launch content, the long time plans that will take this game, and this universe, far into the future. Pay close attention Reapers, because here is where you will get a sense of why you'll want to be playing Em-8er for many years to come.
► CLARIFICATION FROM GRUMMZ:
I am adding stuff to the vision of the game POST-launch. Let me make that clear. The vision of the game for early access and launch is the same as in the Vision Book. But I’m letting you know where it’s all leading to. I’m letting you know what’s beyond that, where we’re headed.
So the idea is we want to paint the grand vision and we want to break it up into manageable funded steps. And we want to do this with crowdfunding, all the way. I don’t want to be in another situation again where I am beholden to an investor who just wants to make WoW... NO. F##K THAT. In order to do that, in order to get people interested in the project, it has to be a grand vision. It has to be something that says ultimately we want to end up here. But you know what? We’re going to roll it out into playable sections that are individually funded. And that’s taking it’s cue from how Elite Dangerous was supposed to be and what Warframe eventually did. But Warframe didn’t have a grand vision from the beginning. They just added systems and those systems aren’t connected.
I wanted to take this to a grander vision but, I was worried about… I was thinking a little too small. I got into games to innovate. I got into games to make games that we can’t play yet, that don’t exist yet.
This is definitely what I’m talking about with Em-8ER. I want to push the envelope. And I also want a plan. A plan where it’s playable early on and that’s broken up into phases. I don’t want to scare anybody. And I want to show that we’re making progress so, I want to break it up into these phases. **The initial phase has not changed.** I’m just telling you what lies beyond.
And what lies beyond DID change.
I was thinking a lot smaller. Post launch I was thinking ‘Oh we’ll add guilds. Yeah, that’s good. And we’ll add some vehicles for the invasion part. But I wasn’t thinking of it holistically as a system. And now I am. And because of the success of the community, and because we’ve got 30,000 people signed up already, and because we have such an amazing support group here, I’m thinking bolder about the future past launch.
► During this stream, Grummz confirmed that on next Tuesday [August 2, 2021] he will be streaming FFXIV and Thursdays will be reserved for EM-8ER Chief Chat updates.
==== GRUMMZ BRAINSTORMING ====
■ Remember usual caveats apply to these types of Impromptu Chief Chats.
■ Grummz is not setting anything in stone, he likes to discuss it with the community.
■ These are NOT 100% yes were going to do this, this is just Grummz getting your feedback/ideas during a chat.
► “What if we think about Em-8ER as an entire world and an entire society? Someone else earlier was throwing out the meme ‘We live in a society...’.” Well, I don’t have a better word for it. Maybe civilization? Let’s go over the story of Em-8ER.We put a lot of work into the story of Em-8ER and there’s still some areas that still need a lot of visualization work.
THE STORY OF EM-8ER:
Em-8er is a story about humanity’s (at least for the Gatestriders) last stand. The branch of humanity called the Gatestriders, they lost their homeworld. They’ve been sort of been canceled by the rest of the galaxy because they’ve drawn the ire of an advanced civilization that destroyed their homeworld. Nobody else wants to get their homeworld destroyed so they sort of shun the Gatestriders. The Gatestriders are traveling around on a massive space station they built, cobbled together from what remained of their planet. They’re trying to find a new world. They find Em-8ER. This is their last chance. They land on this planet which is barren, frozen, and volcanic in places, or a combination of the two. They have to open up the world. They have to start terraforming it and converting the planet over to a new homeworld for themselves [Reference to “The Expanse” – follow the Martian arc; and how they are terraforming Mars].
You ARE the Gatestriders.
The Gatestriders happen to be specialists in robotics. When humanity went out and founded the 30 plus colonies of the first human settlements, everybody had to adapt to their planet in different ways. Some of the colonies decided to do bio-engineering. That’s how we got cat girls. Cat girls were in zero-g habitats and it turned out that cat-like reflexes and flexibility was really key to surviving in zero-g habitats. That’s why there’s cat girls, cat dudes, and neko Grummz in Em-8ER. They’re called “Feli”. Jeff (Nethril) came up with that name, I think it’s a great name.
The Gatestriders over all, they survived the harsh gravity of their planet by using power suits. They have powered armor, and mecha. They solve all their problems with robotics. They have robotic assistants, AI assistants and things like this. This is how they conquered the harshness of their planet. They are bringing this technology to bear on Em-8ER. They are miners and frontiers men and women [Reference to Heinlein “Moon is a Harsh Mistress”, “Stranger in a Strange Land”, and “Starship Troopers”]. They are kind of “Heinlein-esque” in that they are very rugged individualists but they’ve banded together to tame the wild west [Reference to Heinlein’s book “The Cat Who Walks Through Walls”].
It got me thinking … What does this world require?
You as the player, you’re terraforming Em-8ER but, you’ve also arrived at a bad time because the Tsi-Hu have discovered this planet as well; for whatever nebulous reasons. This world is now a breakthrough point through a dimensional and time rift where the Tsi-Hu are pouring through. They are a race of malevolent creatures. They grew up and evolved on a harsh planet filled with giant monsters called Kaiju (strange beasts).
Now we have this war. And we have to stop the Tsi-Hu. [Hey, we’re not thinking too deep here, right because this is a fantasy game.] We have to stop them because they're bent on conquering the universe. They’re the flood. They’re going to come through like locusts and sweep through the entire universe with their Kaiju. Once they can get their space Kaiju up and running, imagine giant space whales. However they would travel through space using Kaiju instead of space crafts. That’s how they would do it.
So, as a player, not only do you have to carve out a new homeworld here, you some how have to stop the Tsi-Hu from spreading. And you’re not united because you’re all rugged individualists. You’re arranged into houses. Not all of you agree on the best approach. In fact, there’s another faction. A pirate faction, that doesn’t care about terraforming the planet. They just want to mine what the Kaiju have and be fully independent of this quasi-unified effort to terraform the planet.
Now we have a planet. We have a war. We have an alien faction. We have factions within the humans including the pirates, and we have a need to do various things on this planet.
Some of it is to fight the war. This is the first phase we’re focusing on.
These are for Firefall fans who like the exo-suits all the way up to folks who like to pilot larger mechs.
I’m now thinking of Em-8ER as a complete world system. Playing Final Fantasy XIV and I sort of love the trade skills. I have issues with the trade skills. The stuff I make isn’t really useful for anybody. But I like that they treat the trade skills like a separate job system. It has its own combat rotation. You can fail at them but’s not random it’s skill based. There are many different trade skills. Even fishing is its own mini-game.
In Em-8ER I think there’s a role for everybody. You don’t have to just be a mecha pilot and fight in the wars if you don’t want to. What does Em-8ER need? It needs people who can go out and mine. So, maybe there are more mining specialized mechs that you can assist the THMPR during the mining encounters. I actually have a mechanic in mind for that but, I’m not revealing yet. I’m going to show you, you’re going to play this in the playable mockup, rather than me just talking about it.
What if you wanted to be a miner more than you want to be a combat mech specialist? You can spec out your frame, either taking the current frame and maybe attaching some drilling accessories to it or something else. Or, maybe we create a whole new frame. [Star Citizen has a hundred different ships and they all have different tactical roles.] Or maybe you want to fight in invasions but you want to be in an interior specialist and you want to fight when it goes hand-to-hand inside the buildings. For that you need your light omniframe. You’re not going to fit a heavy omniframe into the interiors. So suddenly there’s a purpose for light frames that has a unique combat role. And there’s a role for heavy frames; there’s big beasties outside that are assaulting your bases and you need to defend against that so you could do that.
So what else does a planet like Em-8ER need?
You need miners, you need base builders, right? What if you wanted to specialize in construction? Remember that the whole point of making this after WoW was we wanted to make a Starcraft MMO, right? What if you could pilot an SCV? What if that was your shtick? What if you wanted to go around and help build these bases? And what if there was a whole game play loop to support that? And an end game to support that? You could go out and have that sort of role and your mech could be tailored to be more like an SCV in Starcraft. This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about.
Or, what if you want to be a farmer, you need food right? In the lore of the world, we talk about how they can’t wait to start farms on Em-8ER. They have them on Home. There’s acres of farmland there. Darla works on a farm. She’s a mechanic and she fixes up mecha but she also out there farming grain.
What about a game like Harvest Moon? That’s another one of my favorite games. What if we had non-combat roles in Em-8ER? You could mine or till the land and have a farming game and be real social about it.
What if we had entertainers? One of my favorite moments in Final Fantasy XIV was discovering the “FFXIV Song Birds” – a troupe of bards and dancers who go out and perform concerts. They’re playing midi music and stuff like this.
We have combat and non-combat jobs. We have a job-like system. We have different pursuits.
Maybe you just want to be a farmer or an terraforming engineer?
What if we made it more simulation than in current MMOs?
I have a LOT of ideas and I’m not ready to present them all yet.
Space Truckers… “Convoy”, the movie… Star Citizen…
There’s always a zone that is being invaded.
What if these resources have to be convoyed? I worked with one of our concept artists and said, I want players to have a mission where they have to haul resources to the front lines. They have to do it over terrain. They have to have cargo, like an 18-wheeler to a specific location on the war front.
This game is bigger than your character. It’s your character plus whatever machinery you’re operating to master your game play loop. So this space trucking idea of getting resources to the front line of the invasion… space truck crew… Thunderbirds 1, 2, and 3. Thunderbirds 2 had the multi-purpose cargo carriers.
This hasn’t been completely thought out yet.
I want what Chris Roberts refers to as physicality and fidelity. That doesn’t mean I’m going to go nuts on graphics by the way. This game has to run on many different systems. I’ll talk about that later about Unreal making that a possibility.
[Grummz is thinking of maps bigger than 8x8 km. sq.]
[Referenced, “The Wandering Earth” (Chinese movie).]
This is going to be a much more character-centric game than we were first thinking of. People kept asking me if they could get out of their mech.
We want to be the ultimate Sci-Fi Mech Fantasy experience.
And we’re breaking it up into phases; that’s never changed. First phase is invasions and mining, right? And the vehicles we need just to support that. But it’s a living breathing thing. And that’s just the Kickstarter phase and after that we would continue to have crowdfunding for sections of the game. We used to call it milestone based funding, right? The first milestone was a website, the second was building the THMPR, and now we’re on the [third] one where we’re building a playable mockup with a thumping encounter. This is what we’re talking about in the future … and you have to paint a big vision of the future if you’re going to successfully crowdfund something like an MMO.
We treat our customers like our publishers, if we don’t deliver, the next milestone doesn’t get funded. Instead of calling it milestone funding, we’re calling it feature-based funding. Or think of it as DLC sections of the game. This was always the plan, we’re just narrowing in on the marketing and branding of how to do this.
==== GENERAL POINTS ====
► Everyone welcome Randy T! He designed our new pet for July’s Em-8er Monthly Patron skin! He also designed Crodus, the First Kaiju Prime. Crodus is undergoing a little bit of a face lift. We’ve got some cool ideas coming up for that.
==== Q & A ====
► Question: Is EM-8ER combat targeting?
Ronyn: No tab targeting. EM-8ER is a true shooter. You aim and move with skill and reflexes. A variety of skill levels will be possible depending on how you build your mech, but ultimately its a shooter. Would you like to see some game play videos?
► Question: So is it safe to say you’re thinking similarly to a “work as play” model where chores like supply lines become gaming content?
Grummz: I’m not sure what “work as play” means. The work is game play which is true in final fantasy.
*went over story of EM-8ER
► Question: I like the ideas presented and I like that you have a plan for EM-8ER. But what is the endgame? I get it’s an MMO but how are things going to progress in the war? Is there a way the war can end?
Grummz: No, there is no planned end for the war, but at the same time I’m talking about multiple end games, as in different endgame loops, though we don’t know what that's like right now.
► Question: How are pets going to work in EM-8ER?
Grummz: For now they will just be cosmetic companions. You can summon them at home and/or probably summon them on many of your mechs and vehicles.
==== FUN STUFF! ====
► Grummz Maid Outfit From The Past
Ronyn: “Okay now Grummz, does your real life maid costume fit the same way it did in your 20’s?”
Grummz: ”You know I have to admit I gained a few pounds since I was a teenage maid. So...”
[laughter]
Grummz: “And the cat ears weren't possible until I met with Elon Musk and he provided the technology.”
Ronyn: “He’s doing good work.” [laughs]
► FAI’s thanks raffle winner! ` ♦ Mako ♦ `
Twitch VOD link!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1101925030
Likes:
Wyntyr, Pandagnome and Mahdi
