How new potential Backers/Supporters/Players first view Em8er

[PartTimeJedi]

A returning member, who hasn't been around in a year, just posted on discord a statement about his confusion of the current course of Em8er and it reminded me I wanted to address this.. I didnt know where/how to approach this topic in the forums and have been putting it off. I dont want to piss anyone off or come across as against Em8er.
I have been aggressively pitching Em8er to anyone I know who plays online or who might like to play. I know a ton of gamers, but to get to the point - I have been getting the same surprising response from many of them..---
When I direct them to the main website (NOT THE FORUMS) to check it out, many of them say things like.. What is this? or why are there Mechs and half naked Anime girls? or This doesn't look like what you described....One guy wrote back to me "Is this a Fortnite type game?"
I think mixing all the sexy skins right in your face with the Mechs vs Kaiju theme is disorientating in trying to show EXACTLY what the game is about. I've been hearing it a lot from first timers to Em8er.
I understand what they are saying and tell them about the sliders ability to mask what you view as a player. etc. One gamer, who I was 100% sure that they would love Em8er when describing it to him was halfheartedly meh about it the next day after sending him a link to the main website. I wonder if we are giving off a confusing vibe with the main website? The left side looks like a Hard Sci-fi Mech vs Kaiju shooter MMO while the right side of the page looks like a slide-show for a Hentai game.
We have Kick-starter coming up and much depends on how well it does and a lot of that will depend on new backers. First impressions make a HUGE difference.
I almost feel like ---Just from the viewpoint of visual marketing-- the Em8er main website page doesn't know what it wants to be. And that translates to confusion to someone viewing it for the first time. As someone who's been around Em8er for a couple years I understand that sexualized skins are just an added perk, a small one in the big picture of Em8er. But for someone just stumbling across the website.... It looks like a main theme of the game.
I want Em8er to succeed, I personally love my skins and fully support whatever happens. THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-SKINS POST Just throwing these observations out there.

 

[SeductivePancake]

I completely agree with this. While I love the artwork, I feel like the website doesn't allow someone who has no idea what they are looking at, to actually figure anything out. a lot of people have a hard time finding where to support the game because of the weird labeling of the pages and while yes they are technically campaigns and perks, that say to someone new, "support us here!" I understand the whole team is in a stressful time right now but I think a full rework of the website might be in order to really keep people from leaving in confusion and disinterest.

Fan service works up to a point. in my view, I see this when I enter the site,

Front page: An art demo that someone came up with that somehow found a group that wants it as a game. No real direction on where to go other than login or forums.

After login: I see my account details, an Indiegogo linkup tab and the downloads and campaigns and perks tabs. Campaigns page is odd, you see a subscription service at the top to sign up for, the general store for backers, (which is where most people will go to support the game) has nothing but a decal for sale, the newcomer backer packs tab, while not indirect in labeling, I feel as though this tabs very existence is what's confusing people. The general store has nothing but a decal, yet this other tab has all these other things. Making people think does the decal only support the game, while the backer packs are just to buy items from people maybe?

Obviously if people just read the description this could be solved. but with a past and current work history in retail the #1 rule is, "Customers don't read" I'm not trying to insult anyone im just saying that maybe we should have 1 big store page that has everything people want to buy, put into different sections of that page and organised to allow people to see what's for sale and what supports what when they buy it.

Maybe like this,

Top page tabs: Main Page Account Downloads Support us Forums Discord

Main Page:
-Has all the different tabs in medium to large buttons with two random images of the front page art selected to be shown on both sides of the page when loaded.

Account:
-account details
-active purchases & subscriptions
-other details

Downloads:
-all downloadable content the user owns (if they purchased any)
-a blank page with empty sections with a small link to the "Support us" page, showing how to gain downloads.

Support us:
-General Store, has all active backer packs and extra content for an upfront 1 time fee
-Subscription(s), has all active subscription(s)

Forums:
-Clickable link that takes the user to the forums, or integrate the forums into this website so only 1 domain has to be paid for.

Discord:
-Clickable link that takes the user to the discord invite page for the server.

 

[Pandagnome]

when looking at this personally this is how i think of it.

We can see that the image of the kaiju and the thumpr and below the images cycle from
thumpr, dropship, mek etc those are great!

The character images that transition i like to think give a sort of manga comic style.
They cycle show casing these are what they could wear and how they could look there is that element of sexiness sells.

However it would be superb to see not just the posing images for the sexiness but other things such example

Action poses portraying how cool it could be to be one of these characters

The action can be leaping, running, punching etc etc
These to me would show that it is action packed and fun !

Then i am wondering if the size of the character images could be smaller so that it could
make it less prominent than the whole background

I very much like the writing in the middle with words
Meck vs kaiju MMO etc etc


Was thinking something of this layout


The one of the right could make it clear to see the whole picture!

 

[PartTimeJedi]

I like the Idea Pandagnome has of mixing in-between the pictures of the skins, put in-game assets, maybe in-game clips of the Omniframe fighting?

 

[VRK9]

I remember when the new site loadout came, i thought it was a bug on the old site, until they said it was the new updated site... i still liked more the old one.

 

[Wyntyr]

Taking some time to stare at it...yeah I agree the website could use some love ahead of KS. To be fair there's really no info there to give anyone much of an idea of what the game will be like. You may want to send peeps to Discord for up to date info until the website gets an overhaul.

 

[WatsonDynamite]

I think in general the devs are focusing more on trying to sell buxom anime girls than the actual gameplay... Still waiting on that Heavy Frame concept... I thought this was the Mech vs Kaiju game, not the Mech vs. Waifu game.


EDIT: Wow, looking back at this post, I sounded extremely rude and confrontational for no reason. That is not how I meant to come across, and I apologize.

 

[Pandagnome]

When i remember what drew me to firefall it was:

A) The Arclight story this was something from a movie if they had something like this to click on the site an icon somewhere that would be nice expanding our imagination.

B)

Forums:
-Clickable link that takes the user to the forums, or integrate the forums into this website so only 1 domain has to be paid for.

Integrating the forum with the website would make it much more convenient but then i wonder if this was done for security/privacy reasons or just to separate the 2?

C) I love to see crixa labs have something like this before each video then followed up by whatever content if it was em8er the em8er logo would appear after or beside it

D) Was looking at a site this one https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/
What i like
- The big icon, made clear especially the buy it now and start your free trial icon
- The image on the top moved a little moving my mouse over the character with the writing adventure awaits beyond the horizon (my imagination wonders what it could be over that horizon!)
E.g. cool images likes these


Those make me go woaaaaaw

- The races and customization are small but you can see a variety even a ducky that makes it more appealing but also doesn't reveal the whole outfit or character so you would be wanting to investigate the site more to find out.

- I like the things you can do with images associated with it such as crafting, mini games, fashion, housing, socializing and gathering this explains ah this is what i can do.

- Those words hero, warrior of light, adventure, help your friends, i think gatestrider and allies chould be used in a similar way that show we all are in this big world and to do our part, work our way to becoming a rank of a heroic reaper

I (imagine of a small pet about to die by a kaiju, suddenly a reaper rolls across picking up the pet carrying the pet sprinting as fast as possible.

The kaiju continues to cause destruction while you take shelter inside a building but its not going to hold much longer the roof of the building is smashed :O your holding to that pet is this going to be the end?

A bright light appears the sound of something charging and the rest is left to your imagination!)

I think in general the devs are focusing more on trying to sell buxom anime girls than the actual gameplay... Still waiting on that Heavy Frame concept... I thought this was the Mech vs Kaiju game, not the Mech vs. Waifu game.

Yes it is Mech vs kaiju but waifu and husbando use mechs too!
All takes time my mama say to me you want the best meal you have to wait because it takes much preparation and planning.. ah mama you were right the food is yummy true story i think this applies to Em8er hmm

 

[WatsonDynamite]

Yes it is Mech vs kaiju but waifu and husbando use mechs too!
All takes time my mama say to me you want the best meal you have to wait because it takes much preparation and planning.. ah mama you were right the food is yummy true story i think this applies to Em8er hmm

I am well aware of how long game development takes. That's not what's in question here. What's in question here is that I think selling "waifu" and "husbando" skins any type of cosmetic item at this point in development shows contempt for the fanbase and lack of faith in the product. Instead of selling us exclusive behind-the-scenes look at development, some concept art or something like that that rewards us RIGHT NOW for our current support, instead they're trying to use sex appeal and promises of items to sell us on the game. What's the matter? Is the gameplay not good enough?

They seem to forget that their game technically hasn't even begun development yet (what's being developed right now is the vertical slice DEMO). What happens then if the actual Kickstarter fails and the game isn't funded? What's gonna happen to all those skins people paid for in the subscription service? Are they gonna send people the photos of the concept art in the mail as compensation?

I think the money used to commission those artists could be put into development. Personally, I would only consider backing the subscription service if the rewards were more substantial. Pretty drawings of pin-ups that I can get on Discord for free are worth nothing to me. The promise of those skins ever being in the game is worth nothing to me because there's no guarantee that the game will even exist. There used to be weekly dev update videos. What happened to those? Those could be a fantastic reward for backers.
Instead they'd rather sell their game through sex appeal. I don't even know what the subscription service is paying for since the funding for the M3 vastly exceeded expectations.

I have faith in this game. But it's up to the dev team to ensure that faith isn't misplaced. As it stands, the subscription service strikes me as a very iffy and suspicious business move.


EDIT: I'm not saying it's not OK to have a pre-release subscription service, or to put waifus into the game. By all means put all the waifus and sex appeal you can! What I'm saying is there's some severe priority mismanagement going on here. Focus on the parts of development you have to focus on, selling hot ladies should come later. The more skins you promise people, the more development time is gonna have to be put into creating their assets.

 

[Wyntyr]

To be clear...they are not selling Waifu's and Husbando's...the geesuits/skins are a thank you for using the monthly subscription to fund Em.8ER's game development. It has been some time since the Dev Team has mentioned that specifically so I can understand why some feel that it's some sort of sale. The sub is why there's a light OF going to be in the playable mock up, it's why there are 3 servers running 24/7, etc. Yes the funds for ONE artwork per month could be used for something else but what is that cost per month? How many Reapers took up the subscription just to get the skins? None of us truly know the Dev Team's financials or the reasons why some folks sub v/s others (unless the specific player say so). For example, I subbed so that I could give more funds overtime v/s large one time purchases/upgrades. I like that there are benefits but they have my sub regardless.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

Just want to reiterate that my original post was not about the merits of skins, but rather how the main website is setup and what kind of reactions I'm seeing after sending people to it.
My personal experience was that I heard about Em8er, being a FF lover, and found the main website. At this time in mid 2018 the main website was basically what it is today..without the skins. It did have a slideshow, but it showed concepts art and preliminary assets.
I gotta say, I think it was a better website design and it got me excited. IMHO.

 

[Pandagnome]

They seem to forget that their game technically hasn't even begun development yet

I don't think they have forgotten but there is a lot of work to be done.

any type of cosmetic item at this point in development shows contempt for the fanbase and lack of faith in the product. Instead of selling us exclusive behind-the-scenes look at development, some concept art or something like that that rewards us RIGHT NOW for our current support, instead they're trying to use sex appeal and promises of items to sell us on the game. What's the matter? Is the gameplay not good enough?

Subscribers get:

* Access to older dev builds of the Em-8ER video game. (no alpha, beta or final game access)
* A unique skin for a Em-8ER weapon, frames or other accessory each month.
* PDF Vision book, updated each month for the game.
* Draft chapters, as they are written of "Frozen Dawn," military sci-fi, mech vs kaiju novel
* Draft chapters of the Gatestriders tabletop, space opera RPG
* Access to private subscriber only forums on forums.em8er.com

Would be nice to have more behind the scene look could put it in a video in the vip section as you mentioned the weekly videos even if its a very minor update!

There is a lot of sexy appeal in those images currently, and hope there are others that are more cool looking also. i was sold on the mek, thumpr, bike, drop ship, the skins and the gameplay.
I think the gameplay is getting better with each progress having played in the demo when i can.

Focus on the parts of development you have to focus on, selling hot ladies should come later. The more skins you promise people, the more development time is gonna have to be put into creating their assets.

I agree focusing on the main development areas is important but lets say you do all you can on that day and have to wait for someone else to finish a certain part or perhaps you have commitments with family etc

The concern is valid, however i have full confidence in their abilities as professionals to get the job done and resolve the issues that come their way.

 

[EvilKitten]

I think in general the devs are focusing more on trying to sell buxom anime girls than the actual gameplay... Still waiting on that Heavy Frame concept... I thought this was the Mech vs Kaiju game, not the Mech vs. Waifu game.

We really need an "agree" button, because I don't "like" what you said but I absolutely concur with your statement.

I strongly feel that too much emphasis has been placed on these overly sexualized skins and that has changed the flavor of Em-8er significantly. To be blunt it makes me rather uncomfortable. This is supposed to be a wargame, and I feel that art aspects should center around that. The skins are supposed to be a minor thing, but they have IMO grown to be almost as important as the next weapon update.

We have major skin reveals, they get posted again and again in Discord so that they are plastered all in your face. This does not speak of a small "thankyou" item for subbing, this says to me that these overly sexualized skins are the REASON for subbing. And this whole "waifu" theme is going to be a major focus of Em-8er.

I feel that the skins shouldn't be on the main page at all, it should be pictures of omni-frames, Thumpers and Kaiju. Throw in some short clips of demo play and it will be much better. It would also be nice if we could start getting some artwork for base design, nonsexualized subspecies artwork (aka the neko from Grummz book etc.), perhaps some ability design idea's and such. I know we have some artwork for weapon design as well that could be included to push the idea of modular weapon crafting.

 

[Pandagnome]

I strongly feel that too much emphasis has been placed on these overly sexualized skins and that has changed the flavor of Em-8er significantly.

I think you have a point they could add a skins link/icon near the Crixa subscription all-access pass link to show the skin range. That way they could leave the website to focus on the main purpose of the game.

This is supposed to be a wargame, and I feel that art aspects should center around that.

War posters/images showed war in various ways some with humor, some with truth and others with glamor.


A funny one



Then there were those pin up poster ladies.


Not forgetting the pets of war

For the website i think it could certainly be improved if i have to be honest as long as it makes sense to a new person clearly showing its about what it states and the other images/posters can be inside the website.

This does not speak of a small "thankyou" item for subbing, this says to me that these overly sexualized skins are the REASON for subbing. And this whole "waifu" theme is going to be a major focus of Em-8er.

Currently the skins that have been put out are:

[Female skin] less Armored
- July Female OP-AI Skin
- August Female Skin
- October Female Skin
- November Darla Female Skin
- December and January Snowbunny skin
- Pilot N.03 Bunny Cosplay Skin.


[Female skin] Armored
- June Female Skin

[Male skin] less Armored
- September Male Skin

[Mounts]
- December and January Bonus Mount

[Weapon]
- May Plasma Cannon Skin

[festive]
- October Halloween Special

[Omniframe] skin
- March - GS-09 "Cinder" Medium Omniframe

There does seem to be more female skins that are revealing than armored. Also the male skins need to be upped up too and the other categories. I am sure eventually we will see a much more varied collection of skins!

I have noticed for example in June Female Skin the female has one of her hand close to her inner thighs

Possible Reasons:
- Did she have a leg day and making sure she can move again?
- Does she usually have a holster near her thigh?
- Is she playing drums with the crate?
- Perhaps she has secret codes in that hand?

Anyways just my observation hmm

 

[EvilKitten]

Yeah I knew that WW II posters were going to show up. I will point out that the posters were motivational, the soldiers themselves didn't wear skanky/sexy outfits into battle (which is what the reapers are doing). While what reapers do in their offtime is up to them, their bedroom play doesn't need to be a huge focus...or any focus... of Em-8er the wargame.

 

[Grummz]

I think this is a post about the website more than an anti-waifu thread. We always said there would be waifus and husbandos in Em8ER. The website is going to completely change just prior to KS to focus much more on game features.

Meanwhile, since we've had the current site, it is not harming us, but the opposite. We went from 10k signups to doubling to over 20k signup in 1/3rd the time it took to reach the first 10k. Quite emphatically, the current site is not harming us, and can wait until we get to KS for the revamp, which will focus much more on gamplay.

People want dev updates, but putting together those videos takes away from the dev team. Having a guest artist create skins for Omniframes, Mounts, AIs and Female and male characters does not.

There is no miss-prioritization of resources here. Making skin concept art takes zero time away from development.

Development videos DO take time away. We would have to stop making stuff and spend 1-2 days making and editing a video on a dev update. This is why we do regular chief chats instead, such as the one at 5pm.

Hope that clears it up. I agree that the main website needs more game focus prior to KS and will be completely revamped by then.

 

[Kassatsu]

Personally I think the landing page is just a touch too in your face with the cheeks and such. For the most part, I don't care about skins like that being in the game (if anything I welcome it), and if they're going to be a main focal point of monetization there's no reason to try to hide them. Maybe make a bigger point of being able to turn off the "undesirable" skins and such later on down the line. I wouldn't mind some filter presets either, perhaps a "lore-friendly" default option.

 

[PartTimeJedi]

Thanks Boss!
And to reiterate what Grummz said., my post wasn't anti-Skins or Wafu, but a critique of how the main website looks to newcomers. Period.
I'm a monthly subscriber and LOVE my skins both mecha and naughty!

 

[Myst]

I understand where everyone is coming from, and personally, I love the Bunny Girl Cosplay Skin. In fact, its one of the ones i'm most excited for! I would say, maybe just having a holiday skin button that hides holiday skins, might be a good one, or maybe you could have an option to right click on a user and hide the skin, kind of like how VRChat does things. Or even have a menu with each skin that would be toggle-able, as to enable the people who like one skin (IE the Darla Skin) Vs another, such as the Bunny Girl Cosplay Skin, to turn off one, but keep the other? Maybe, we could have an option that offers to do hard driver mode on other peoples mech's, so their characters aren't seen as well for the folk's who want their immersion?

My thing is, if i'm going to spend 200+ hours looking at a character, id rather like the look of the character personally over the concept of immersion. I personally love the games where if i want to, like in FFXIV, i can run around in a bikini or my underpants just to get a few giggles from my friends, but then the next minute, swap things up so i can walk around in a regal dress or casual Saturday night outfit while out on a raid. Don't get me wrong, in cut scenes and story, I am going to deck myself out to the nines in lore friendly cloths, but for general use, I would like the choice to choose. Because that little bit of choice, along with designing my own character, is what makes or breaks a game for me.

Every game i play offers customization in some way, be it M.A.S.S Builder, FFXIV, Warframe, Dauntless, MHW, Firefall, or other such games, Id rather play a game where i get to feel like "This is me, this is my character, and Today, i feel like its a no pants day", or switch it up on the fly. That's why I am hyped for Em-8er, because while I played Firefall for the game play and grew into my character's appearance, Em-8er has both the customization and the game play i love, where i get to make my character my own!

 

[wangmauler]

WHAT DOES @Torgue_Joey HAVE TO SAY!?