What's the motivation here?

Todo

New Member
Apr 17, 2018
2
4
3
#1
I used to be an avid firefall fan until I discovered all the shenanigans that Kern was up to. After reading a post on reddit titled:"What buying back the Firefall IP really means, by Mark Kern "(which is followed by a really long post about what kind of person that Kern [supposedly]really is), I decided to come here and post to find out; what is giving the developers the drive to help Kern create another IP? Did he rage until you finally agreed? How do you (the developer) know that Kern isn't going to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one morning and end up firing your core team? Is it true that he hardly shows up to do any work? Or is he the opposite (like a hardworking buttkisser) when it comes to getting things done?

Before I drop another dime on another one of Kern's creations, I have to know whether or not the money that I am putting into the game is worth the investment. Or if he's like EA games where he creates broken games solely just for the money.
 

Mahdi

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
548
1,082
93
Montana, US
#3
Mistakes are committed by everyone. Outside of some errors in firefall look at his track record. Also understand The9 is what crushed firefall. Game was amazingly fun pre-launch but became shite from launch on to the end. And talk about a one sided source in Reddit for information. Please take note I started with faults before sounding like a fanboy. The milestone approach protects both sides in this development. Very successful strategy. Isn't he one of three full time people on this project? So let's leave his work hours alone here. If he was so horrible to his staff, why are there so many volunteers wanting to see this dream realized? If you want to be on the sidelines longer to see what becomes of Em-8er, no one is pressuring you. Community is running nearly 8000 strong and people are happy here. Funding goals have been met with 300%-600% completion each time. I can list off 30 Reapers who won't hesitate to show you what you will be missing out on. Bystander or not, this is happening.

I don't need to carry the flame. The ember is already glowing. I just fire up the systems, drop my visor and deepstrike!
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
9
20
3
#4
Mistakes are committed by everyone. Outside of some errors in firefall look at his track record. Also understand The9 is what crushed firefall. Game was amazingly fun pre-launch but became shite from launch on to the end. And talk about a one sided source in Reddit for information. Please take note I started with faults before sounding like a fanboy. The milestone approach protects both sides in this development. Very successful strategy. Isn't he one of three full time people on this project? So let's leave his work hours alone here. If he was so horrible to his staff, why are there so many volunteers wanting to see this dream realized? If you want to be on the sidelines longer to see what becomes of Em-8er, no one is pressuring you. Community is running nearly 8000 strong and people are happy here. Funding goals have been met with 300%-600% completion each time. I can list off 30 Reapers who won't hesitate to show you what you will be missing out on. Bystander or not, this is happening.

I don't need to carry the flame. The ember is already glowing. I just fire up the systems, drop my visor and deepstrike!
Well put, let bystanders be bystanders. : )
 
Likes: Tyceus

Terib.Shadow

Omni Ace
Greeter
Omni Ace
Jul 26, 2016
374
897
93
Baal Secundus
#5
1524034431612.png
This is normal but feels so off. The quiet ones can give a lot too it seems.

As for the thread itself, sadly OP it sounds like you got the "The9 brainwash" treament, can definitely be changed though. There's not a lot more to be said without making a 10000 word long wall of text, but i do recommend joining the discord server and talking to Grummz himself whenever he gets on, which is usually on mondays, but some other days as well sometimes. This way you'll have fresh, unquestionable answers.

https://discord.gg/GbZNfJ9
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
9
20
3
#6
View attachment 1618
This is normal but feels so off. The quiet ones can give a lot too it seems.

As for the thread itself, sadly OP it sounds like you got the "The9 brainwash" treament, can definitely be changed though. There's not a lot more to be said without making a 10000 word long wall of text, but i do recommend joining the discord server and talking to Grummz himself whenever he gets on, which is usually on mondays, but some other days as well sometimes. This way you'll have fresh, unquestionable answers.

https://discord.gg/GbZNfJ9
I’m not a regular forum goer, but I am interested in the games progression.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
3,400
3,589
113
Island of Tofu
mechadrive.com
#7
It is natural to be asking questions and having doubts we do not see the behind scenes everyday and they cannot always be perfect but can sure make a big effort to make the game the best they can. I know everyone remembers how firefall was from the good to the bad but you got to remember now is em8er.

An example nothing to do with firefall or em8er, for me i was put in a manager position at work at one time and i hated it. For someone with the experience would be more suited to handle with all the workload, delegating responsibility and all that boring stuff too.

So i decided to go for a more support role and that was my thing anyways we always seem to blame the big boss easily!
Anywhere along the chain could be an issue who knows? collectively just like in sports if 1 or a few mess up we all suffer some way.

The good thing is experience counts and the community voice we get to be heard and shape this game.
Not only that but this time round its not under any 3rd party control which means more freedom to do things.

Things are not going to happen in a day or 2 this is a journey and we are ploughing along steadily
 
Jul 26, 2016
1,051
1,522
113
38
#8
ya know all the crap that people attributed to Kern in the development of the game?

He leaves FF and that crap not only kept happening, it got worse. It got quickly apparent that it ain't just Kern that was the problem that all those Kern bashing posts made it sound like.

All I did was look at what he did before and since then and decided I'm willing to throw some $$ at his latest project.
 

Ronyn

Commander
Community Manager
Jul 26, 2016
563
1,672
93
#9
I used to be an avid firefall fan until I discovered all the shenanigans that Kern was up to. After reading a post on reddit titled:"What buying back the Firefall IP really means, by Mark Kern "(which is followed by a really long post about what kind of person that Kern [supposedly]really is), I decided to come here and post to find out; what is giving the developers the drive to help Kern create another IP? Did he rage until you finally agreed? How do you (the developer) know that Kern isn't going to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one morning and end up firing your core team? Is it true that he hardly shows up to do any work? Or is he the opposite (like a hardworking buttkisser) when it comes to getting things done?

Before I drop another dime on another one of Kern's creations, I have to know whether or not the money that I am putting into the game is worth the investment. Or if he's like EA games where he creates broken games solely just for the money.
Hello.
I could delve into the history of firefalls development, and how much of it has been misrepresented buy certain parties. But..meh.
instead I'll just give my own personal experience. I've worked with Mark for nearly two years now. On the Em-8ER project, he and I have spent countless hours getting things done. He has been nothing but a fun guy to work with and talk to. He is a good freind and mentor to me. Simple as that. So why am I here? Because I believe in the project, and I believe in the person. If I didnt I wouldn't be here. If he treated me poorly I wouldn't be here. Those who know me know that I don't put up with BS from folks. So make no mistake, I'm here because it's been nothing but awesome.

That said I do get the skepticism from folks. I get it. When you watch a game fall apart and there is a certain version of events that gets repeated many times it's hard to not buy into at least some of it. All I can say is to keep your mind open and your eyes on us. I think, in time, we will make you happy that you did.
 

Todo

New Member
Apr 17, 2018
2
4
3
#10
Mistakes are committed by everyone. Outside of some errors in firefall look at his track record. Also understand The9 is what crushed firefall. Game was amazingly fun pre-launch but became shite from launch on to the end. And talk about a one sided source in Reddit for information. Please take note I started with faults before sounding like a fanboy. The milestone approach protects both sides in this development. Very successful strategy. Isn't he one of three full time people on this project? So let's leave his work hours alone here. If he was so horrible to his staff, why are there so many volunteers wanting to see this dream realized? If you want to be on the sidelines longer to see what becomes of Em-8er, no one is pressuring you. Community is running nearly 8000 strong and people are happy here. Funding goals have been met with 300%-600% completion each time. I can list off 30 Reapers who won't hesitate to show you what you will be missing out on. Bystander or not, this is happening.



I don't need to carry the flame. The ember is already glowing. I just fire up the systems, drop my visor and deepstrike!

Interesting, I thought the9 were just investors, I didn't actually think that they were the culprits. I also read somewhere that Kern is a really good salesman who knows how to sell people an idea. It makes me wonder why The9 couldn't see his vision. Other than helping with the creation of Warcraft & Starcraft, I'm curious about his more modern accolades, such as what he's doing for the Em-8er project or what he did for Firefall (instead of just being the visionary-shot caller-head honcho)


ya know all the crap that people attributed to Kern in the development of the game?



He leaves FF and that crap not only kept happening, it got worse. It got quickly apparent that it ain't just Kern that was the problem that all those Kern bashing posts made it sound like.



All I did was look at what he did before and since then and decided I'm willing to throw some $$ at his latest project.

I've read a few different articles saying that he was involuntarily separated from his own company. Not that he left on his own. But you're right about him being gone, the state of Firefall only got worse when he wasn't there.


Hello.


I could delve into the history of firefalls development, and how much of it has been misrepresented buy certain parties. But..meh.


instead I'll just give my own personal experience. I've worked with Mark for nearly two years now. On the Em-8ER project, he and I have spent countless hours getting things done. He has been nothing but a fun guy to work with and talk to. He is a good freind and mentor to me. Simple as that. So why am I here? Because I believe in the project, and I believe in the person. If I didnt I wouldn't be here. If he treated me poorly I wouldn't be here. Those who know me know that I don't put up with BS from folks. So make no mistake, I'm here because it's been nothing but awesome.



That said I do get the skepticism from folks. I get it. When you watch a game fall apart and there is a certain version of events that gets repeated many times it's hard to not buy into at least some of it. All I can say is to keep your mind open and your eyes on us. I think, in time, we will make you happy that you did.

So far its been a rough year for gaming in general (from the bitcoin boom all the way to bad game engineering) but I'll try to keep an open mind about Kern & the project in the future. One can never be too skeptical about the gaming industry these days.

It is natural to be asking questions and having doubts we do not see the behind scenes everyday and they cannot always be perfect but can sure make a big effort to make the game the best they can. I know everyone remembers how firefall was from the good to the bad but you got to remember now is em8er.


An example nothing to do with firefall or em8er, for me i was put in a manager position at work at one time and i hated it. For someone with the experience would be more suited to handle with all the workload, delegating responsibility and all that boring stuff too.


So i decided to go for a more support role and that was my thing anyways we always seem to blame the big boss easily!

Anywhere along the chain could be an issue who knows? collectively just like in sports if 1 or a few mess up we all suffer some way.


The good thing is experience counts and the community voice we get to be heard and shape this game.

Not only that but this time round its not under any 3rd party control which means more freedom to do things.


Things are not going to happen in a day or 2 this is a journey and we are ploughing along steadily
With that said, I can only hope that the community is still heard during the post production phase once the game has launched.
 

Despair

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
686
596
93
28
Germany
www.jardras.de
#11
Since Em8er's first indiegogo campaign there was no silent pause. We get nearly weekly updates and are able to get in touch with the creator of this game personally.

I know this is just the early stage we are in but I feel more involved in this game than any other crowd funded game I backed. (As a Superbacker on Kickstarter... This sounds rather sad...)

Maybe that's why I have high hopes for this game and trust the entire team behind it.

But remember (for every crowd funding in this world) : Only spent the amount of money you're able to and which you will not cry after if its lost forever.
 

Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
691
5,976
93
#12
I used to be an avid firefall fan until I discovered all the shenanigans that Kern was up to. After reading a post on reddit titled:"What buying back the Firefall IP really means, by Mark Kern "(which is followed by a really long post about what kind of person that Kern [supposedly]really is), I decided to come here and post to find out; what is giving the developers the drive to help Kern create another IP? Did he rage until you finally agreed? How do you (the developer) know that Kern isn't going to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one morning and end up firing your core team? Is it true that he hardly shows up to do any work? Or is he the opposite (like a hardworking buttkisser) when it comes to getting things done?

Before I drop another dime on another one of Kern's creations, I have to know whether or not the money that I am putting into the game is worth the investment. Or if he's like EA games where he creates broken games solely just for the money.
Hi, we'll be moving this thread to the complaints and gripe section, but I wanted to reply.

A lot of the negative stuff that people heard came from one poster on Reddit, Brutal Whimsey. Brutal spun a pretty tight and commercial quality written narrative, combining bit of truth and leaving out a lot of things, to weave a hitpiece out of some kind of grudge, or perhaps corporate motivation (The9 was looking to discredit me to explain to new investors why I left...and I did resign, I was not let go, that is fakenews). I suspect the later, because a year later, when The9 and Red 5 failed to pay employees at Christmas, Brutal slammed employees for leaking their NDAs and told them to shut up (funny, he praised them for breaking NDA when talking about me, odd that). From there, that post was the basis for an article about me on some clickbait game site and the rest of the slander campaign is history.

I have several Ex-Red5 team members working for me (JoeSolo, Michael Bross, Noel Rubin, and three others (2 who just joined) I can't name because they work for other companies right now), which should tell you that a lot of what you heard is selective truths and hyperbole. Also, you don't see people on the World of Warcraft team complaining about me, and I was Team Lead and in the trenches on that project for five years. When I directly manage a product, like WoW or Starcraft: Broodwar, Diablo 2, etc. they tend to go really well. As a CEO, I had less and less direct management of the team as time went on. We were fighting an internal war with The9 and I was often called away to China to say, argue against firing the entire management team, or doing layoffs (unfortunately at one point The9 insisted and we had to do a round of layoffs during beta). During my tenure at CEO we had one of the highest retention rates of employees in Red 5's history. When I left, droves of employees started to leave as The9 took over. I never fired on a whim, gave people 30-60 improvement programs, and fired very few compared to The9 later, who eventually fired everyone but core team to work on mobile and porn games.

My team is motivated by I'm passionate. I'm passionate about Firefall, mechs, anime and Kaiju, and it shows. I strive for a high quality of work and will even do things like remake the Omniframe based on user feedback that it wasn't good enough. They also were there with me and saw things the public did not (or even some team members). They tend to be people I've worked with directly for years, instead of managed by the middle manager of Firefall, so they know me better, rather than 2nd or 3rd hand company rumors. Or they have worked with me the on concept and art for Crixa, the tabletop game, and enjoyed it. I've not lost a single team member on Crixa or Em-8ER .

Did I make mistakes on Firefall? Absolutely. Did I tank the company? No, beta was the highest point and I presided over the "golden age" of Firefall. After I left, they changed the game to WoW with Guns and user concurrency sank rapidly. They had 2 years and changed the game many times during that time to try to make "their vision" of Firefall, which I creatively disagreed with (a source of many arguments, and yes, I would get a little heated sometimes when they wanted to make WoW with guns).

This time I have no investors who want me to "just make WoW again" and my team is small, motivated and loyal. Instead of me being away in China all the time, I'm here working directly on the game, side by side with my team. It's where I'm best, really, as you can see from my history of all my games.

I hope you are here because you are genuinely curious. I'm a pretty open and friendly person, as the community here knows. If this helps you in any way to change your mind, then stay with us awhile and see for yourself how it goes.

- Markus
 

Bane

Commander
Jul 28, 2016
21
54
13
#13
Ex-Firefall founder here. Mark, how exactly you plan to bring back the excitement we Firefall fans had when we first logged into the game and we saw the world with full of mysteries and with that awesome topical feeling?

Thanks,
Bane
 
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Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
691
5,976
93
#14
Ex-Firefall founder here. Mark, how exactly you plan to bring back the excitement we Firefall fans had when we first logged into the game and we saw the world with full of mysteries and with that awesome topical feeling?

Thanks,
Rivara
Well the world starts out as a harsh planet. A icy and yet volcanic planet, a mix of snow and lava. Players terraform the zones of the planet over time, and the final biome of each zone ends up being a variety of things, desert, or forest or yes, even Copa Jungle style potentially. The one thing that will be a factor is that giant Kaiju need large flat area, and so do bases, so you wont' see an entire zone that is mountainous etc.

You still have frames, but they are now light mechs, about twice as tall as humans. They still jetpack and glide and now, skim (fast travel). They move as fast as Firefall frames, not clunky mechs. But now YOU control your "class" by crafting the abilities and weapons you want, and mixing and matching them into three frame types "light," "medium," and "heavy." You can collect as many frames as you want and have different loadouts and play-styles for them.

When you fight, you are fighting shapeshifters that flip between ranged, humanoid form, and brutal melee, beast forms. They have special siege weapons, that are actually large and giant monsters, that you will have to fight, often using your jetpacking verticality.

There are two main things to do in Em8ER, resources and crafting, and invasions. There is always an invasion going on. You can jump in and fight in one right away, or you can go to a quiet zone not under attack and thump and mine and craft and establish and improve bases.

Hope that helps!
 

DinsdaleP13

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
448
497
63
116
Arizona, U.S.A.
#16
Ex-Firefall founder here. Mark, how exactly you plan to bring back the excitement we Firefall fans had when we first logged into the game and we saw the world with full of mysteries and with that awesome topical feeling?

Thanks,
Bane
Drive around on a bus, and whip people into a frenzy if they're not excited enough. Leaked photo of him piloting the bus here:
GrummzBus.png
 

Gordro

Omniframe Inventor
Jul 26, 2016
95
187
33
England
#17
what is giving the developers the drive to help Kern create another IP?

Could be a number of reasons, those he listed himself above or the same reason I gave cash at the start to Ember.

Bear in mind hes a salesman, and they are what they are because he is believable, and looking at it with those narrow distrustful eyes of mine I realised he was actually passionate about the idea. of the game and making it happen. I really believed it was more personal to him than just getting the 30% return on investment that probably should be his focus.


And to cap it all for me, a few hundred quid spent on the game is nothing compared to the emotional investment I put into a game.

Since firefall has turned off, I cant bring myself to play much of anything else apart from things that are just a quick log in, kill for half an hour then log out (eg WOT etc)

Ive got the feeling that Mark Kerns gives a shit, so Ill back him.

Then again he is a Sales Man and he got me a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge. When it actually turns up its going to look cool in the garden. (problems at customs he tells me..)
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
3,400
3,589
113
Island of Tofu
mechadrive.com
#18
Bear in mind hes a salesman
I couldnt imagine mark with a suit :eek:


Since firefall has turned off, I cant bring myself to play much of anything else apart from things that are just a quick log in, kill for half an hour then log out
I know how that is i seem to login to kf2/warframe and enjoy the login prizes.....well the good one's!
Also pew pew pew and saving the galaxy that feels good :p

Ive got the feeling that Mark Kerns gives a shit, so Ill back him.
Me too ;)
 
#19
I am also having trouble finding new games to play, I found fortnite to tie me over a bit [the pve part] back when it was in alpha / beta but when it launched my key got revoked. But other then that I have not really found a MMO shooter thats generally PVE. I sometimes play Planetside 2 but thats just a crap fest.
Also holy crap more reasons for me to hate the 9 >.> also heard a theory [but its pretty much very tin foil hat conspiracy] that blizzard hired the 9 to screw that game up which well. Does not make much sense AT ALL!
 
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Likes: Vecchio

Gordro

Omniframe Inventor
Jul 26, 2016
95
187
33
England
#20
Makes little sense, Blizzard must have been making a killing from the 9 hosting WoW for them until someone else came along and offered a better deal. Basically a licensing deal where the hard work is carried out by The 9 and Blizzard get to tap the Chinese market without jumping though the millions of hoops a western company need in order to operate behind the great firewall of China.

The 9 were just hosting it, and maybe some language changes, they "supposedly" ran it on some pretty powerful supercomputers (for the time) so they did invest in the delivery to their customers though they would have been little more than acting as a middle man between the player and Blizzard.

yeah they fucked up Firefall, but doubt we can pin anything else on them
 
Likes: Sy and Mahdi