Very skeptical

Darsh

New Member
Mar 9, 2018
6
7
3
#1
As much as I love the mechs and exosuit designs for this game, I can’t help but feel like this is nothing more than Firefall 2.0... with better graphics and nicer looking skins.

I can’t imagine why this game would be more successful than its predecessor. I don’t know all the reasons behind the fall of Firefall, but it usually comes down to one major factor for every MMO.. lack of money, which means, ppl aren’t buying into it. As much as the players who did play Firefall enjoyed the game for what it was, that playerbase was probably not significant enough to keep the game afloat, and so it slowly sank.. because even loyal players start to lose hope when bugs don’t get fixed after several months of reporting the same things over and over.

For me, I just thought the game seriously lacked content to keep me playing for an extended amount of time. I played towards the end and was talking to many of the vets who were still around and asked them what there was to do. The answe was always the same. “Oh we do thumping mostly..”. Like seriously? This is your end game? And by the looks of it, sounds to me like EMBER is going the exact same direction. I don’t know about you guys, but when I play MMOs, I like to do something more than just a glorified horde mode. Even as cool as all these AI invasions sound, they will become repetitive and annoying in the long run. An MMO needs A lot more to stay afloat in this day and age where the market is already extremely over saturated. You need more than just cool graphics and nice exosuits.

Well that’s my 2 cents anyways. I hope I’m wrong about this re-skin of Firefall.
 

Ronyn

Commander
Community Manager
Jul 26, 2016
561
1,644
93
#2
Hello there @Darsh
I appreciate you taking the time to voice your concerns. First let me tell you that Em-8ER is, in many ways, built off of the founding principles and design goals that firefall originally had in it's earliest days. That said, you will find some very distinct differences as you explore what we are doing here.

A very important thing to note is that Em-8ER isnt an MMO. In the general sense of "Lots of players in an open world" one could call it an MMO, but it's goals, structure, and focus would not not fit the MMO classification.
Also, we have an extremely different funding structure here than firefall did. There is just so much to say about why this is different.

I invite you to read up a bit on what we are doing here. https://forums.em8er.com/threads/frequently-asked-questions-f-a-q.867/ If you have any additional questions after that, let us know. We will see what we can do. Beyond that, stick around and see what we do. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that you did.
-Ronyn
 
Jul 26, 2016
19
36
13
36
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
#3
Just leaving lurking mode for a few seconds... As a Firefall veteran and Beta tester, one of the most fun chapter of the million Firefall's remakes (as a Firefall's forum friend said once - sorry, I don't remember his nickname - Firefall became a new game every 2-3 months) was during the so called Chosen War, when we could keep just running the map up and down retaking watchtowers again and again and again... Of course, it wasn't only this what we could do back then, but it was the "main goal" at that time. And it was fun as hell. Just saying, a better version of that "endless war" would be awesome and is exactly what I expect of this project. Not the usual crap of usual MMOs. Especially no (or very low) vertical progression.

Back to lurking mode...
 
Last edited:

Grummz

Administrator
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
668
5,587
93
#4
Em-8ER is not an MMO, it is also not Firefall, but it does take Firefall's spirit to heart by focusing on ONE aspect that was fun (yet underdeveloped by that game).

Em-8ER is a game where you can jump in and fight invasions by the AI controlled Tsi-Hu. To counter invasions, you need to gather resources to improve your omniframe and to build bases on the map that will help you.

It's more like a a persistent PvE Battlefield game than anything else.

There are no quests, no missions, its mine->build->fight invasion->repeat.

Over time more zones are released to fight over. Hope that clear it up some for you.


As much as I love the mechs and exosuit designs for this game, I can’t help but feel like this is nothing more than Firefall 2.0... with better graphics and nicer looking skins.

I can’t imagine why this game would be more successful than its predecessor. I don’t know all the reasons behind the fall of Firefall, but it usually comes down to one major factor for every MMO.. lack of money, which means, ppl aren’t buying into it. As much as the players who did play Firefall enjoyed the game for what it was, that playerbase was probably not significant enough to keep the game afloat, and so it slowly sank.. because even loyal players start to lose hope when bugs don’t get fixed after several months of reporting the same things over and over.

For me, I just thought the game seriously lacked content to keep me playing for an extended amount of time. I played towards the end and was talking to many of the vets who were still around and asked them what there was to do. The answe was always the same. “Oh we do thumping mostly..”. Like seriously? This is your end game? And by the looks of it, sounds to me like EMBER is going the exact same direction. I don’t know about you guys, but when I play MMOs, I like to do something more than just a glorified horde mode. Even as cool as all these AI invasions sound, they will become repetitive and annoying in the long run. An MMO needs A lot more to stay afloat in this day and age where the market is already extremely over saturated. You need more than just cool graphics and nice exosuits.

Well that’s my 2 cents anyways. I hope I’m wrong about this re-skin of Firefall.
 

Darsh

New Member
Mar 9, 2018
6
7
3
#5
Hello there @Darsh
I appreciate you taking the time to voice your concerns. First let me tell you that Em-8ER is, in many ways, built off of the founding principles and design goals that firefall originally had in it's earliest days. That said, you will find some very distinct differences as you explore what we are doing here.

A very important thing to note is that Em-8ER isnt an MMO. In the general sense of "Lots of players in an open world" one could call it an MMO, but it's goals, structure, and focus would not not fit the MMO classification.
Also, we have an extremely different funding structure here than firefall did. There is just so much to say about why this is different.

I invite you to read up a bit on what we are doing here. https://forums.em8er.com/threads/frequently-asked-questions-f-a-q.867/ If you have any additional questions after that, let us know. We will see what we can do. Beyond that, stick around and see what we do. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that you did.
-Ronyn
Thanks for the reply, I read the entire FAQ and I have to admit I am very hopeful that your team succeeds with this game. I’ll be keeping a close eye on this one because I was one of those ppl that really wanted Firefall to succeed and saw the potential in that game.

One thing that somewhat disappoints me a little is that there is no plans for PvP at this time.. I truly hope that this changes once the game launches as I could see a crazy amount of potential there too. Not only would it be easy to add a quick match based pvp battleground with capturable objectives to satisfy that itch, but I think the game could really shine with a well thought pvp zone where guilds / clans can compete against each other for the control of bases that are essential for gaining more resources faster.
I have a lot of ideas on how this could be done but I’ll keep that for a later post!
 
Likes: Pandagnome

Darsh

New Member
Mar 9, 2018
6
7
3
#7
Em-8ER is not an MMO, it is also not Firefall, but it does take Firefall's spirit to heart by focusing on ONE aspect that was fun (yet underdeveloped by that game).

Em-8ER is a game where you can jump in and fight invasions by the AI controlled Tsi-Hu. To counter invasions, you need to gather resources to improve your omniframe and to build bases on the map that will help you.

It's more like a a persistent PvE Battlefield game than anything else.

There are no quests, no missions, its mine->build->fight invasion->repeat.

Over time more zones are released to fight over. Hope that clear it up some for you.
Thanks for replying so quickly! I understand now that this is its own genre in a way. And I like what I see and read so far! Basically reminds me of guild wars 2 dynamic events. Just show up where it’s happening and have fun.
 

Biz

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 30, 2016
25
38
13
#8
If you view the game as what it actually is, a sandbox, then the issue of content lessens significantly. I distinctly remember how I spent a whole day in FF patch 0.6-ish and finding several veins of the Carbon q921 (iirc), sitting on several tens of thousands of the stuff afterward. Even though crafting was kinda dull and the later decay system straight up cancerous, actually Getting the materials was not entirely without entertainment value.

I take it that "build" includes crafting; guns, new THMPRs, assless chaps, etc?
Missed those by few grand... Imagine all the female welders running around in those, equity police would have loved them.
 

Mahdi

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
494
922
93
Montana, US
#9
Glad you didn't hesitate in speaking up and were really cool about how you presented your perspective. As you see the team is very responsive to the community and there are tons of information concerning this project.

Personally relish the idea of having firefalls experience available again. Em-8ER will be that, and much more, with Grummz not having his hands tied going forward in realizing the vision of Em-8ER coming to fruition.

.7-.9 was the peak of firefall and I sit in great anticipation of that crafting system coming back. Knowing every fighting style and weapon will have purpose (please be patient with the inevitable balancing).

The milestone funding approach is also the best way to advance this project. Lots of believers around here and lots of hype. Things are looking real good!
 

PIghead Elderberry

Kaiju Slayer
JUMBO KAIJU SLAYER
Jun 4, 2017
185
346
63
CA USA
#11
I am counting on the combat (including Thumping related) to be such a reward in and of itself that we'll be able to avoid 'end game' problems. The MMOs that have the same things stuck all in the same places all the time (theme park MMOs I believe) get boring fast because even with a tad of dynamic tacked on, it is just the same thing replaying over and over again. I hope that will be gone forever in Em8er as we'll be seeing different events in different locations based on our own actions as players (e.g. where we terraform or thump). We won't see fixed locations doing rinse and repeat combat cycles...
 

Silv3r Shadow

Max Kahuna
Max Kahuna
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 29, 2016
272
483
63
#12
most MMO's base their content over quests/missions/events. they take a massive amount of time and moneys to make and continuously, that is what firefall 2.0 onwards turned into. Em-8er wont be nothing of the sort my friend :)
Mainly non-stop war and thumping even bases
 

Dreamin

Base Commander
Base Commander
Dec 4, 2016
83
116
33
PNW
#13
As much as I love the mechs and exosuit designs for this game, I can’t help but feel like this is nothing more than Firefall 2.0... with better graphics and nicer looking skins.

I can’t imagine why this game would be more successful than its predecessor. I don’t know all the reasons behind the fall of Firefall, but it usually comes down to one major factor for every MMO.. lack of money, which means, ppl aren’t buying into it. As much as the players who did play Firefall enjoyed the game for what it was, that playerbase was probably not significant enough to keep the game afloat, and so it slowly sank.. because even loyal players start to lose hope when bugs don’t get fixed after several months of reporting the same things over and over.

For me, I just thought the game seriously lacked content to keep me playing for an extended amount of time. I played towards the end and was talking to many of the vets who were still around and asked them what there was to do. The answe was always the same. “Oh we do thumping mostly..”. Like seriously? This is your end game? And by the looks of it, sounds to me like EMBER is going the exact same direction. I don’t know about you guys, but when I play MMOs, I like to do something more than just a glorified horde mode. Even as cool as all these AI invasions sound, they will become repetitive and annoying in the long run. An MMO needs A lot more to stay afloat in this day and age where the market is already extremely over saturated. You need more than just cool graphics and nice exosuits.

Well that’s my 2 cents anyways. I hope I’m wrong about this re-skin of Firefall.
Darsh,

Please note I am just a supporter here and I know "The Main Man" has already personally responded to you. I want to say to you that the skepticism is okay. With the track record that FireFall had anyone looking at a game based off it should be slightly skeptical.

As you pointed out, and I have hounded about for years, the funding was the biggest issue in FireFall and the results of the funding decisions there were its actual downfall. Mark has opted here for a smarter funding process, crowdfunding, which requires the deliverables be met before additional funding requests are made. This allows the initial supporters to determine how far the project gets until release without outside intervention from majority stakeholders (Non-Creators/Moneymen) that have different ideas for the game's structure, which is where FireFall failed. THAT GAME actually had a complete overhaul due to investor demand which stopped all production on the released game to remake it into an MMO, which the founding members and playerbase all tried to fight, though the overbearing investors did not listen. That type of action sinks games every time.

To add to this; while server costs aren't necessarily cheap, once the release is funded here, the cosmetics and consumables will fund the servers and forward production, until they don't. At that time further "crowdfunding" can be used to keep the serves afloat to somewhat infinium by those which chose to keep it going.

I wish you had been able to play the earlier renditions of FireFall, before THE NINE took over. It was much less structured and helped feed the randomness that a lot of gamers crave.

Thanks for the reply, I read the entire FAQ and I have to admit I am very hopeful that your team succeeds with this game. I’ll be keeping a close eye on this one because I was one of those ppl that really wanted Firefall to succeed and saw the potential in that game.

One thing that somewhat disappoints me a little is that there is no plans for PvP at this time.. I truly hope that this changes once the game launches as I could see a crazy amount of potential there too. Not only would it be easy to add a quick match based pvp battleground with capturable objectives to satisfy that itch, but I think the game could really shine with a well thought pvp zone where guilds / clans can compete against each other for the control of bases that are essential for gaining more resources faster.
I have a lot of ideas on how this could be done but I’ll keep that for a later post!
I can say here my response is not the general consensus of the entire group.

The PvP thing... I am sure there will be some of that content added later, but, the element introduces more than just a competitive nature to the environment which is intended to be cooperative instead. PvP draws a lot of hate and toxicity to games and drives more quality players away than it brings, if you take a moment to look into the longevity of games which are centered around it you will see, they come and go. The only people that benefit from them are short term investors and highly skilled bullies, mostly the investors. The only thing keeping keeping some of the games running in e-sports is the marketing income, the games themselves are mostly dying or dead, the longest running of them all I believe is World of Tanks (that game is soooo toxic), other examples are;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eSports_games
How many of those games are still running or are you even thinking about playing? Probably very few. It really isn't a "fun" atmosphere, its competition and too many take that way to seriously and it destroys the entire atmosphere surrounding the game itself. Give some time to this for the game to take off and something, against my initial choice, will be surely be added that can be "family fun" and not be overburdened by those gamers that have the need to be better than or dominate someone else.

Please continue to observe the development here, jump in on the opportunity to try the game out once it is available to you and see if you enjoy it.

Cheers and best wishes,
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
3,011
2,874
113
Island of Tofu
#14
Mark has opted here for a smarter funding process, crowdfunding, which requires the deliverables be met before additional funding requests are made.
I was surprised when this was done at first, after a while realized this was actually a good way to progress steadily while letting the community be part of it to see what was going on in the process and have their say as well :cool:



"family fun" and not be overburdened by those gamers that have the need to be better than or dominate someone else.
I am glad you put this down in pvp the pubstomps premades, elitist attitude/trash talk gets tiring but some love it.
Not going to say everyone who plays pvp is like that but there are some. Pvp can be fun although personally enjoy co-op, pve much more because we are all in pursuit of the same or similar goals and there is a sense of unity in sim wide events which is incredible it does bring a tear of joy in my eyes when a plan is wonderfully executed to have defeated as a team :)