Technology level, HUD, and UI

[Omnires]

I love both types of sci-fi, science fiction and science fantasy (for the people who don't know things like Star Trek is science fiction and things like Star Wars is science fantasy). And as some of you might have noticed on Discord a good bit of some of the things I talk about has to do with the technology level of the people on Em-8ER and what that would really mean in terms of how they would live their lives and how they would fight. Because in my view of things, no matter if the game leans more to the science fiction side or the science fantasy side, the thing that makes or breaks good sci-fi is believable level of technology and a believable way of using such technology (which includes using technology in a way that it was not originally attended for). Now must of this is going to be on the world building and lore side of things. But it would also effect on the players how they play. One of the key things to do is think about what counts as a baseline technology and level of technology. For example, the wheel is a baseline technology as in it is something everyone understands and can make, while things like cars and tanks are a technology level a specific application of the baseline technology because of the fact that you can use the concept if a wheel for things outside of vehicle movement (everything from pulleys to ferris wheels to spinning orbital space stations).

Although this thread is going to be focused on the HUD and UI of the game other topics might pop up from time to time in relation to it. The main goal of this thread is to share ideas for different types of HUDs and IUs for the player to use how they might work in why that make sense, even if it is not 100% scientifically accurate and we have to do a bit of hand waving to make it happen. Because the rule of cool is this a thing. Also there is no one right way to things, there can be different variants of the same thing that works for different people and/or different circumstances that are related to how different people might see things or approach a situation. For example, some people would prefer only having one targeting reticle while some would prefer to have multiple reticles on the screen at the same time with personal preferences and playing styles being a driving force behind how some people feel about thing. As long as we all mindful and respectful of the fact that what works for one person might not work for another person.

As some of you know one of the roles I love to play as in game are anti-materiel (a.k.a. anti-tank) snipers and that I also hate being forced to use scopes or sights wound you realistically shouldn't have to. Because point blank ranges are a thing that exist on weapons and in my option to many games ignore this fact. Anyway, I'm one of the people who is fine with having multiple reticles on the screen at once, as i'm use to playing flight simulators and mecha games where you can fire multiple different weapons at once and not all of them are pointing in the same direction or at the same target. Given how we will be doing most of our fighting in Omniframes which do have A.I. in them. I think having that level of technology making things like needing to physically look down a scope on a sniper rifle pointless because it would not be your eyes looking down the scope if it had one, but the eyes of the Omniframe which are cameras. So why not just have the zoom function built into the cameras on the Omniframe itself or just have camera built into the gun itself so you can always see what the gun is pointing at even if you are not holding it (something people do in real life even now to let them do things life fire around corners or fire remotely without the risk of exposure)? With that in mind the targeting system in my Omniframe would just be a function of my HUD. I can see this working in a number of ways along both with and without A.I. support. Without A.I. support a simple picture-in-picture option can work, where what is shown in the smaller window is what the gun itself is pointed at while rest of the screen is just what I would normally see with the reticle showing a ghostly outline of the area the gun is focused on. I still have the option to switch the screens back and forth with if I need to make really small movements to get a shot, but otherwise there would be no need to. With A.I. I can see myself locking onto at target and my A.I. tracking it and telling me where you aim my gun to hit the target. The same kind of why tracking targeting reticles work in things like fighter jets and attack helicopters, the computer does the math of things like intercept paths and all you have to do is try and line your reticle with the reticle the computer placed on the HUD. There are many other ways of doing it with the techology level with have in Omnifames and weapons, but those two ways are the ones I can think of that would fit into the feel of the game that I'm use too without having a dedicated targeting computes and radar systems like other game such as Armored Core, Ace Combat, Mech Warriors, and the like.

 

[Pandagnome]

I have to agree but lets say you are out of the omniframe during this time can you still fire weapons and if so would it be like the traditional way & can you access satellites for aerial view?

Also if the cameras or certain section of the omniframe is damaged would that damage the camera area too until it was repaired?

I like the idea of the multiple reticles, but is there also an option to use a single reticle some people prefer 1 and having the option to switch from 1 to multiple could help some.

Also like to add more to do with convenience, are the camera's toggled buttons & can we assign to whichever key we like that would be good.

Another thing more towards shooting but will there be ways for hold down triggers than just spamming buttons to shoot this also helps those with repetitive strain injuries

 

[Omnires]

I have to agree but lets say you are out of the omniframe during this time can you still fire weapons and if so would it be like the traditional way & can you access satellites for aerial view?

That is a good question. The only real limitation would be what kind of things our human character can hold and carry on their bodies. Like can our humans wear things like glasses, goggles, eye visors and the like with built-in technology that would allow us to see things we normally can't. Like night vision, infrared, the ability to see through drones and satellites. The same would go for things in our hears. There is also the level of technology within our suit. The suit we wear would likely have technology in it that would help up in survival like keeping our body temperature stable, basic first aid if we get hurt (like part of the suit can tighten around the arm or lag to stop you from bleeding out. Or locking the parts in place so you can still try to move with a broken bone. Technology that people are working on now for the space program and military). Given how the Gate Striders are explorers by trade, I think the standard issue gear that we carry around at all times and/or built into our suit would be things linked to survival, surveying an area, and communication.

Also if the cameras or certain section of the omniframe is damaged would that damage the camera area too until it was repaired?

That would go by the game play itself. Will our HP go down and we are destroyed no matter where we are hit or will each key part of the body have its own HP and unless something vital (the cockpit or reactor core) is destroyed we can still move around and fight with limited abilities? For example, like how some mecha can still move around and fight without a head because that is not where the pilot or power source is. The going by where the pilot is placed and if they can see through the shell of the mecha or not they might have to open up the cockpit to keep fight. And the reason for doing that is because the camera and/or radar is broken or destroyed. In some games even the weapons have their own armor and HP so it is possible to aim at an enemy's weapons to destroy them so they are unable to fight back (remembers the days of playing Armored Core and sniping the missile pods and guns off my friend in pvp).

I like the idea of the multiple reticles, but is there also an option to use a single reticle some people prefer 1 and having the option to switch from 1 to multiple could help some.

Yes. This thread is all about coming up with different options and not forcing people play in one way. The problem with a lot of games is that they take a one-size-fits-all stance when it comes to player options in how somethings work. I know that adding some options might mean spending more time and resources on things some people might never use, but at the same time you almost have to view it like an accessibility problem. I've known some players would have been great in some games if know the UI or HUD allowed them change things around in way that they can use. And I also known people, myself included, only because of how the UI worked against us. Different brains work in different ways after all.

Also like to add more to do with convenience, are the camera's toggled buttons & can we assign to whichever key we like that would be good.

I would think having key bindings options would be standard in most games by now. That would included the open to hold or toggle some key features. This might seem like a small thing to some people with things like hand injuries or limited movement in their hands the open to just toggle on and off things like sprinting and zoom rather than having to hold down the button can help save them a lot of pain and frustration. Again game devs have to think of things like as part of the accessibility problem.

Another thing more towards shooting but will there be ways for hold down triggers than just spamming buttons to shoot this also helps those with repetitive strain injuries

I don't see way not. In some games you can just hold down the fire buttons to keep firing even non-automatic weapons. The fire rate is going to be same no matter what but it is just easier on the player when you think about. And in some mecha games some weapons (mostly missile systems) even have it listed on them things like "will only fire when has a full lock" or "can fire even without a lock" and this makes sense both for realism reasons and for tactical reasons as you can have one missile pob you use to spam missiles to clear out an area and use the lock-on missiles on the enemy after got them out of hiding.

 

[Pandagnome]

I love both types of sci-fi, science fiction and science fantasy

Me too!

I was thinking of the things i liked a lot in movies/cartoons

I liked the little warnings and probability % of failure etc
great for hackers

In robocop i liked that it gave signs of the target's emotion after the scan.
Also the different camera views giving a better understanding of the investigation.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/43910165103731659/

The high contrast and colours used and those interesting sound effects add
to the way the hud ui feels.

With predator those thermal imaging scans and other scans looks neat and
even the nightvision etc.

So i was thinking having too much on the screen is going to over complicate things.
Guess it wont all be active unless you want to see the required info perhaps there is a way
to calibrate the hud when you first get inside the mech or any new mech.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/38/13/0b/38130bf88b886c5f1a1761f7d7135a44.jpg
When you mentioned multiple reticles could see it as one and the reticle shapes from the first
split and unlock then targeting the other objects.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/e5/d3/86/e5d386abec628b5381bfee5daf5a713c.jpg
Did mention colours already but also shapes for specific targets and outlines makes for
interesting look.

Could each omniframe type have their very own unique hud but can switch to different hud types
depending on preference.

Light = Rapid motion hud with reactive reticle with stabilizer for greater balance/control wielding melee weapons

Med = Gun kata hud multi tracking with preset stance

Heavy = Lock on hud heavy weaponry scan with blast radius trajectory info

 

[Omnires]

For me when I think of having multiple targeting reticles on my screen at once I think more in terms of how fighter jets and attack helicopters HUD works. There is one reticle in the middle of the screen at all times for there the froward fixed guns are (often in the shape of a W). There is the tracking reticles the computer put in your HUD, different types of reticles for different weapon systems. For example, with guns the reticle is often shown as a circle around the target with a line lending to another circle that is the intercept path, you have to line up you gun with the intercept circle if you want to hit the target (even more so if both you and the target are moving at high speeds). And for missiles the tracking reticle if often in the shape of a box with the missile lock-on reticle being a triangle, when the triangle and box overlap that means the missile is locked onto the target and will follow it around. There are other types of reticles but those are the most common you'll see in flight sim games and mecha games. And when it comes to the more realistic types of targeting systems in games, the ones that let you fire all your different weapons systems at once if you wanted too, you'll see all the different reticles on your HUD at once when the weapons are active. And when it comes to things like missiles because some missiles can fire multiple missiles at once at different targets you'll see reticles for each possible target on screen up to the maximum number of targets that type of missile pod can track at once, be it as small as two or as large as 20+. But this why to can choice with weapons to having active or inactive at any given time, some games even taking into account that some weapon weapons have a start up and shutdown time.

I know to some people having all those different reticles on the screen all at once might seem confusing and chaotic. But to me it never feels that way. I find it fun and allows me do things that are more realistic in combat. Like firing flares, decoys, and/or radar jammers into an area to try and confuse an enemy while I fire my guns, missiles, and/or rockets at the enemy(s). Side note, if you are going to use things like radar jammers like chaff, than switch to using rockets and not missiles. There is a difference between rockets and missiles in military terms, being that rockets are unguided and can't track targets while missiles on the other hand are guided and can track targets.

 

[Pandagnome]

I think more in terms of how fighter jets and attack helicopters HUD works

I also wonder if our dropship would have a hud for the pilot to fly and land and control the hatch?

What do you think of tank huds?
https://www.worldoftanksguide.com/guide-hud.shtml

There is a difference between rockets and missiles in military terms, being that rockets are unguided and can't track targets while missiles on the other hand are guided and can track targets.

Ah i didn't realize this thanks.

I am excited by the hud, ui topic to see all the info and diagnostic etc this would make piloting a mech so cool.

When pressing buttons i want to hear bleeps and boops its very satisfying or can turn those sounds off hmm

I like to see the os which would be the mek talking and having some initial start up system sequence

was thinking of the pet robot helios in warframe and it made me think of how cool scanning and building a database of all the amazing things in the em8er world with their unique attributes and location sighted etc.

Older model meks could have retro style huds with a more simple layout as an introduction as we earn or gain ways to construct or purchase newer meks so does our understanding of the development of the mek and its hud systems used.

 

[Omnires]

Some of the newer models of the tanks do use targeting systems like that of attack helicopters. Although because of the fact that tanks also sometimes go into close quarters combat when in things like urban warfare they also tend to be more tuned to picking out human targets. Remember that male tanks are the anti-material ones with large cannons on them designed to destroy hard targets (like buildings and vehicles) while female tanks are the antipersonal ones often using only machine guns and other weapons designed for soft targets (like people).

With the A.I. support not only can you use light to make maps of things around but also sound and vibrations in the ground. One of the advances of using sound and vibrations to make up images of something is that you can use it see what is inside of them and you can see around corners and through walls. Things that would be hard for light to do without damaging the thing using high powered light. Although using electromagnetic mapping has the advantage of being long range and can still work while in outer space. This means using things like Thumpers to make a map of the core of the planet using powerful vibrations is a thing that can happen. And using laser weapons to analyze what something is made of by how the light reflects of them is also possible. Meaning that as you shoot an enemy and vaporize part of them, your A.I. can analyze the particles that come out of it to tell you what atoms are in it.

On the topic of sound inside the cockpit that the pilot can hear. I love the way Gundam explains how they are able to hear sounds even while in space.

 

[Pandagnome]

So the A.I in the gundam suits certainly do a good job in helping the pilot!

That is another thing with sounds if the A.I learned the language/signal of the aliens it could find out clues on what they are attempting to do.

There could also be the way the environment changes such as when the weather patterns is disrupted it could be a sign there is a some device used to open a gate this is highlighted in a way the sky changes colour or that some strange gas like mist surrounds the area or even the plants or organisms begin to die and resurface as an evolved form those changes could be subtle etc

Then wonder how could alien technology affect our hud would it bring a new way of detecting things by syncing to their electrical fired synapses to detect electrical pulse patterns when they build up and shift


perhaps they do not detect sound like us and to them are seen as patterns and waves, how would black matter energy look like and perhaps objects that do not move are harder to detect by them etc

I also hope that there is good balance of science fantasy and science fiction. The idea of things making sense and things that don't sometimes having something unexplained leaves that open to our imagination.

 

[Omnires]

Well I the portals lead to another planet or something like that that it would also make changes in the gravitational field in the area even before the portal opens up. Not counting things like changes in the electromagnetic field in the spot that is able to open up at. If you had the right sensors on a mecha and an A.I. able to make sense of the data than you could find the places the portals will appear before they even happen. Going by how much of a warning you have before it opens you could have enough time set up traps or ambushes.

And we do know there is a bit of time manipulation in the lore of the game. But we don't know to what extent it is nor the nature of it. Because as any scifi fan can tell there are 3 mean types of time manipulation in media but only 2 of them are a real option because the third one is just ignoring paradoxes.

 

[Pandagnome]

we do know there is a bit of time manipulation in the lore of the game. But we don't know to what extent it is nor the nature of it.

I just had an image of max payne in a mek

 

[Omnires]

Hmm... that could be an ability. Time compression and time dilation could be worked into AOE abilities. One that slows downs enemies and stuff within the field to the point where are for moving in slow motion. And the other could speed up time within the area, helping yourself and teammates have shorter cool down times and stuff.

Outside of combat you could also use them do things like solving puzzles or you could even speed up crafting times. Although it is not a good idea to use it on crafting as it also rises the risk of mistakes to happen.

P.s.
One way to effect time is with gravity. So if anything like gravity bombs exist in the game than you could have the bomb to be less deadly but still warp the fabric of spacetime within a given area. Of course this is mostly the rule of cool as anything that could effect time on a scale that would be useful in combat would make a black hole. But that is besides the point.