Some thoughts on missiles and other secondary weapons.

[AhmNee]

I was able to bring this up peripherally during a chief chat, but I think it deserves some deeper consideration.

When you're in a combat and you go to use your secondary weapons system, at this time missiles, your DPS from primary weapons stops while you lock on to targets. The first sweep is relatively fast for single lock-on, but to lock multiple missiles on a target is painfully slow in a fast paced combat. I think we'd find, in a DPS analysis, Missiles would need to be much more damaging/effective to justify stopping your primary DPS for the time it takes to lock-on.

I'd like to suggest some alternatives that either allow you to continue your primary DPS while locking on, or to make locks function much faster keeping more in line with the run and gun nature of the game. It was one of the lessons I had to learn in Firefall, that to stand still was a death sentence, and movement was as important if not more than your armor. To this end, I would suggest modes of fire. In the case of missiles, settings to fire all missiles on one target, a barrage (missiles target an area around one target, maximizing AOE), or even distribution (same sweep lock for single missiles, but the full missile salvo is divided automatically as evenly as possible among targets).

For targeting, we could have modes for Primary Lock, single targeting on your current target. Field of Fire, all targets in a cone centered on your reticle (possibly adjustable for cone width, 30 degrees, 45, 60, 90, or similar) and multi-shot weapons divide evenly. If, for example, there are 6 targets and the weapon fires a salvo of 3, it could prioritize on proximity from reticle (closer to center, higher priority) and distance from your mech (closer to you, higher priority).

I don't expect that the missile system would stay as is, the game is always being improved. This has just been something that stuck out to me like a sore thumb since the missile system was implemented. The game is fast paced and movement oriented. Standing still to do multi-lock on a single target just felt incredibly out of place.

At any rate, let me know what you think. Does this idea have merit, or am I totally overthinking it?

Cheers,
AhmNee

 

[Pandagnome]

So if we had these different firing mode would that be say if pressing the number 2

I think we have 10 missiles as an example:

Pressing Once = Single Missile Lock
Pressing twice = Double missile lock
Pressing triple = 5 missiles lock
Holding button down = full missile lock

Another thought in the game command and conquer when you set the nuke you have this big circle target area what if we could have something like this for the missiles to change the aoe spread.

If we were to use all 10 the radius should be the biggest radius than the other modes.

 

[AhmNee]

So if we had these different firing mode would that be say if pressing the number 2

I think we have 10 missiles as an example:

Pressing Once = Single Missile Lock
Pressing twice = Double missile lock
Pressing triple = 5 missiles lock
Holding button down = full missile lock

Another thought in the game command and conquer when you set the nuke you have this big circle target area what if we could have something like this for the missiles to change the aoe spread.

If we were to use all 10 the radius should be the biggest radius than the other modes.

I was thinking a setting outside of combat, but definitely like the idea of on-the-fly choosing your targeting method.

I also like the Terminator Cyclone Missiles-esque template increase by the number of missiles fired for an AOE. Would there ever be a time where you wouldn't fire a full salvo, though? Unless you're suggesting being able to target a couple of the missiles individually and use the rest for the AOE barrage. Mix it in the moment. AOE being less overall damage than targeted fire, but it spreads over the entire area, yeah?

 

[liandri]

Don't believe you're overthinking it at all. At the moment, you need at least two missiles on a Tsi-hu to kill him, so firing more than that is wasteful, and you'll only fire one to either finish off a target or weaken them. For smaller targets that like to group up, an area target able missile would be preferable. Stronger enemies need a quick, firing everything option. Maybe if you have a lot of enemies and don't care for what you attack? Smart missiles that attack targets around you automatically. I could see some options:
1. A missile pod with multiple firing modes that can be switched with a hotkey (maybe holding down the button for 2 seconds) while using more omniframe energy/or having a longer cool down (since the missiles need to be reprogrammed on the fly) or
2. A missile pod with a single firing mode, with a lower energy req./shorter cooldown, but can be switched at a crafting station for a reasonable cost.

 

[Pandagnome]

Would there ever be a time where you wouldn't fire a full salvo, though? Unless you're suggesting being able to target a couple of the missiles individually and use the rest for the AOE barrage. Mix it in the moment.

It could be handy if you are attempting to take out 2 groups as an example one is coming from the right and the other left you can split the Missiles to target those 2 groups and finish off with the main weapon.

Otherwise the other group incoming is much closer and at firing range damaging a target/base etc

 

[Omnires]

The way I personally see it there is no reason to stop your main DPS while you are locking-on to targets and firing missiles. In fact there are a number of games that you do both at the same time. In older games this was limitation because there was only so many buttons on controllers and so much memory in the game itself. But that still of play mostly stays around now mostly because it is just what most of us grew up with or for the sake of the type of game balance the devs are going for. Looking back on all the mecha and sci-fi games I've played over my life time that I can remember I'll try to list some ways some games worked around these problem.

1. Have more than one fire button.
   1. The way some games so it is by having one button for you main attack and other button for your secondary attack. And you can press both buttons at the same time to attack with both weapons at once. In some games there are even three attack buttons so you can use an auxiliary weapon at the same time.
   2. There are pros and cons to this kind of set up. And the thing that makes or breaks this kind of system is the controls themselves. You have to set things up in such a way that if someone wanted too they can use both or all their weapons at once while still being able to freely move around. And this where in some games the debate over if keyboard and mouse is better or if console controls are better.
2. Having the lock-on targeting systems always be active as long as you have a weapon that can lock-on attached to you mech.
   1. In some games as long as you have a missile pod attached somewhere to your mech it'll always scan for targets even when it is not your active weapon. This let's you quickly switch to it and fire your missiles before switch back to your main weapon or other weapon.
   2. This also works for anti-missile systems in games too. Where some people put on smaller guns like on the head or chest area of their mechs that will automictically track and fire at enemy missiles, blowing them up before they can get to you. For example this system was in some of the earlier Armored Core games and was just a passive ability of the chest parts that had tank turrets built into them. As long as you was facing where the missile was coming from the gun in the chest area would lock-on and shot at it without any kind of input from the player.
3. Having the targeting system be one of the parts of the mech you can change out and/or customize.
   1. This option can be stand alone or linked with option 2 from before. Where one of the components of your mech is the targeting computer and the radar system. The different targeting computers will better at different things ranging from locking-on to enemy weak points or locking-on many different targets at once. Each with their pros and cons about the speeds and ranges they can do this things at, as well as the size and shape of the targeting "box". The target box is that shape you see on your HUD that the targeting computer will scan for things. So if you want to lock-on to something you have to first get it inside of that shape. Not all of them are boxes as it can be any shape. But different shapes allow for easier targeting of different things. Like a short and wide box helps you scan the horizon faster make large sweeping firing patters, but it might be harder to track things that move up and down fast to escape the lock. Likewise a tall and narrow helps in getting targets that might be above or below you, but might be harder to get a lock on things that move side to side fast. And shapes like circles and triangles also come with their pros and cons.
   2. The radar system can be stand alone or linked with the targeting computer. This has no real effect on how well the targeting computer does in and of itself. But it can buff the range of the targeting computer scans allowing it to prepare for targets before they get into range of the it's scans. But really the radar mostly helps the players as good radar system will allow a player to get around and fight without the need to look at the rest of the screen if they wanted too. Although good examples of radar systems are far and few between in games. All I have to say is that if you are making a game where enemies can be both above and below you, have the radar clearly show the location of enemy relative to you. Nothing is more annoying then a radar system that only tells where things are on the X-axis and forgetting that the Y-axis matters in games with different elevations.

Those are the main ways I can remember games working around the problem of having your DPS stop or change as you switch weapons and try to lock-on to targets.

With that said sometimes you need to stop what you are doing and prime some weapons before using them. Although this only makes sense to do when heavy weapons that can do massive damage and destroy most things in the game in 1 or 2 hits. Like a large back mounted particle beam cannon that needs to change up before it can fire or a massive missile launcher that needs to assemble the missiles before you can fire them because the missiles are just to large to carry around in one piece. A good example of this would be the super weapons that exist in some games. Things like the Armored Core games and Zoids are known for doing these with their weapons and/or mecha.