Melee combat

[NanoTechnician]

Em-8ER will feature a brand new server architecture. We won't discuss the secret sauce because we don't know if our experiments will work yet. We're going to be doing a lot of trial and error. But the goal is to allow for very, very responsive shooting, NPC reactions and yes, melee attacks.

You had me at secret sauce.

In Planetside 2 this was a proposed mech unit. it featured a slow firing plasma gun. I liked the idea of having bespoke frames, afterall, it makes the challenge more interesting.

Just as a side note, Planetside 2 uses client side hit detection than server side for server load alleviation.

 

[Omnires]

Just adding some more thaught to the thread.
Left arm-swords/gun-swords are pretty cool, like Optimus Prime, (or right handed).
With the melee, I like black desert online and warfare mechanics. The 1 thing that bugs me with melee from games in general is the same '3 chain combo' for every melee attack, like 1, 2, 3 repeated over and over again.
Final fantasy 15 does a great job at the fluent combo fighting (not to that extent though cause it is a big budget game), but putting out the point out there, maybe randomised combo attacks, like 2, 7, 6, 3, 6, 7, 7, 2, 9 as a attack combo that changes for example. It's still kinda button mashing but isn't exactly the same lol.

Or, another option is like importing like a fighting game mechanics into the game like W+shift (lunge), CTRL+S (block), etc, but that may be the more expensive option.

I wound also like to add that in real life we do have melee combos with guns. Here is an example.

I would love to see games add in more melee combos with ranged weapons. Like when I run out of ammo in a fight but can't take the time to reload. I can just run up to the enemy if they are close enough and use my gun like a club, or rods, or spear based on the design of the game. With things like rifles, I should have the option to place the gun across their necks and use it how I would use a stuff to choke them to death and/or snap their neck.

 

[ShadowAviator]

If you could make it so we can fight like the main character from Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans, that'd be great.

 

[Omnires]

Seeing as I like to play as things like assassins and ninjas in other games I'm kind of surprised I didn't add this into the thread before. But what about aerial melee attacks and combos? Given that our mecha have things like jets on them letting us fly for a short time and we have wings to let us glide, ground-to-air melee combat should be an option and so should air-to-air melee combat.

For example, in some games I play one of the melee combos I use as while playing as assassin type characters is; Dash to enemy hitting them, hit enemy again to knock them into the air or grab enemy and throw them into the air, while enemy is in the air jump up into the air after them to start upwards melee attack combo, end upwards melee combo by hitting / pushing the enemy really so hard they fly off into the distance to hit another group of enemies like a living missile or end upwards melee combo by hitting / pushing the enemy downward really hard so they slam into the ground, end downwards combo by landing on enemy with a powerful downward swing with weapon, or powerful hit with fists or stump with feet, or a bodyslam.

 

[TankHunter678]

With what we know of the enemy at this time, I do not think there will be aerial melee. Not to mention aerial melee is a lot harder to make work then ground melee. Not to mention most games with aerial melee are side scroller fighting games. In 3d games aerial melee is very basic, and any launches only show in in arcade beat em up style games.

I do not think we should try to expand beyond basic melee, otherwise we will just throw on a ton of work that would detract from other content development. Maybe later on when the playstyle of the game is more well known we could see if such an expansion of melee combat would be worthwhile.

This is after all trying to be a wargame with lots of guns, melee vs range combat itself is already going to be difficult to balance. We just have the benefit that our enemy can transform into a melee type to engage us up close. Though they may not always choose that option, especially if the AI can detect our threat level as a melee build and opt to kill us from a distance instead of getting into our strong suit.

 

[Ronyn]

@TankHunter678
There is far more to the enigmatic tsihu than what is currently revealed.

Also, the current plan/goal for melee in Em-8er is to go beyond just a basic melee attack, and beyond what firefall eventually did. In what form that takes is to be decided.

On the question of Ariel melee, shooters with jet packs like tribes and firefall generally have at least a simple swing that can be used while flying. Some other games, like the armored core series, have had great success with air melee by adding an inherent forward dash aspect that made flossing the distance more reasonable. Now, I couldn't say whether this game will be similar to either of those examples of something entirely different. I can say that we are very aware of different ways that melee combat in shooters and even Ariel based shooters have been aproached.

Granted, every bit of development attention put on one thing could potentially be used for something else. I imagine each player has their own sense of what should be prioritized in what order. All I can say to that is I assure you that we will do our best to fullfill the various goals of the game wisely.

 

[Torgue_Joey]

@TankHunter678
There is far more to the enigmatic tsihu than what is currently revealed.

Also, the current plan/goal for melee in Em-8er is to go beyond just a basic melee attack, and beyond what firefall eventually did. In what form that takes is to be decided.

On the question of Ariel melee, shooters with jet packs like tribes and firefall generally have at least a simple swing that can be used while flying. Some other games, like the armored core series, have had great success with air melee by adding an inherent forward dash aspect that made flossing the distance more reasonable. Now, I couldn't say whether this game will be similar to either of those examples of something entirely different. I can say that we are very aware of different ways that melee combat in shooters and even Ariel based shooters have been aproached.

Granted, every bit of development attention put on one thing could potentially be used for something else. I imagine each player has their own sense of what should be prioritized in what order. All I can say to that is I assure you that we will do our best to fullfill the various goals of the game wisely.

I KNOW SH*T ABOUT GRUMMZ SAYING THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (DISCORD, FORUM, CAN'T REMEMBER SH*T FROM WHERE)
BECAUSE AI

BUT F*CK IT, LOOK AT ALL THESE BADASS PUSSIES THROWING F*CKED UP IDEAS IN THE FORUM.
NOW GRUMMZ LIKE:

"SH*T SO DOPE!"
"IS THAT SH*T EVEN POSSIBLE?"
"F*CK THIS SH*T. I WANNA SEE IF THAT SH*T IS POSSIBLE"
(OR WHATEVER EXPERIMENTAL IDEAS HE'S GETTING)

WOOP WOOP FOR THIS F*CKING BADASS COMMUNITY

BUT AERIAL COMBAT LOOKS KINDA COMPLICATED TO ME.
DOES THOSE RABBITS EVEN FLY?
DEM BLOODY RABBITS SURE GOT CHAINS [WARNING: B*TCH MOVE ABILITY] TO PULL US DOWN.

 

[Ronyn]

I KNOW SH*T ABOUT GRUMMZ SAYING THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (DISCORD, FORUM, CAN'T REMEMBER SH*T FROM WHERE)
BECAUSE AI

What is it you recall him saying wasn't going to happen exactly?

 

[Torgue_Joey]

What is it you recall him saying wasn't going to happen exactly?

SOMETHING ABOUT AIR COMBAT THAT FOR SURE xD
SOMETHING WITH AIMING, SHOOTING AT RABBITS IN AIR

IT'S 0:40 IN THE MORNING. STOP ASKING ME SUCH QUESTION x_x

 

[Ronyn]

SOMETHING ABOUT AIR COMBAT THAT FOR SURE xD
SOMETHING WITH AIMING, SHOOTING AT RABBITS IN AIR

IT'S 0:40 IN THE MORNING. STOP ASKING ME SUCH QUESTION x_x

Lol. Oh Joe.

Well, the term "air combat" is pretty vague. Like I mentioned, most jet pack heavy shooters have a basic melee attack that you can still activate in mid air. In fact, just about every shooter has a basic melee attack, and it can still be activated when in mid air. Technically that is melee in mid air, or "air combat" if you will. Something along those lines is probable, the greater question is whether can pull off something more than that. Id wager that when folks ask for air combat they are probably hoping for something more than that. I certainly wouldnt imply that will be the case, just that we are hoping to do more than the basics of melee generally speaking.

 

[Omnires]

I'll be ok with a simple dash melee attack that I can use based on where I aim, be it on the ground or in the air. And having a simple knock down / push attack, be it a slam or a throw, that I can aim so I can throw enemies to where I aim. Just with those 2 simple attacks, given if they that low cool down times, would allow me to make a number of combo attacks both on the ground and in the air.

Dash attack to enemy, grab enemy and throw them into the air, use jet dash attack to fly up into the air and hit enemy again, grab enemy while we are both in the air and throw them downward so they hit ground taking fall damage, and end the combo by using jet dash attack again downward to crash into the enemy (hopefully downward high-speed melee attacks would be a powerful AOE like Crater).​

You don't need super fancy and flashy moves for a good melee system that let's players make up their own combos. You just need melee attacks that can me used in different ways based on where you aim and distance. Hell, even with that simple system with only 2 types of melee attacks I can even change things up mid fight.

Dash attack to enemy, grab enemy and throw them into the air, aim at enemy fire gun at them, then they land on the ground jet up into the air and throw grenade at them, after grenade goes off jet dash melee attack to close in distance, end with gun shot to the back of head or weak point.​

 

[Pandagnome]

What if we could use the melee like this and able to cut in a different directions

 

[liandri]

No thread is safe from undeath.

What if we could use the melee like this and able to cut in a different directions

Might be frame dependent. A light frame with high agility could hack, slash every which way and dodge out of range when facing the claws of a beast mode Tsi-hi, taking gobs of ferrofluid-like flesh, but heavy frame would just flatten it like a pancake (or a crepe if the weapon is heavy enough... or a waffle if it isn't too heavy but it has blunt spikes on the end).

 

[Pandagnome]

No thread is safe from undeath.

Might be frame dependent. A light frame with high agility could hack, slash every which way and dodge out of range when facing the claws of a beast mode Tsi-hi, taking gobs of ferrofluid-like flesh, but heavy frame would just flatten it like a pancake (or a crepe if the weapon is heavy enough... or a waffle if it isn't too heavy but it has blunt spikes on the end).

Hope there will be charged attack for big power hits too, also what if the mek wanted to use just the fists and feet without an actual melee weapon.

Would the different meks move in a different way regarding melee combat without weapon like:

- Light is more acrobatic, fast and agile
- Medium is more of a balance with good kicks
- Heavy is more of a wrestler, some explosive moves but generally slower

 

[Wyntyr]

I'm thinking more like Black Desert feelz with a glory kill mechanic.

 

[Pandagnome]

I'm thinking more like Black Desert feelz with a glory kill mechanic.

Could play that game for some reason but it does look good with the chop chop

Also liked vindictus that had some nice melee guess its similar to black desert in some way.