Mass, Speed, and Disposable gear

Omnires

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Aug 14, 2016
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#1
This thread is about the topic of mass and speed with option to drop things to gain more speed. I bring this up because in a few mecha games I've played one of the game mechanics they have is the ability to drop/detach weapons while in the middle of combat. Doing so removes the mass of the object from your mecha which can help you get into smaller spaces or make you move faster going by your build. In these games you can take advantage of the shed armor to gain speed troop.

https://tvtropes.org said:
is a form of Multiform Balance, where a combatant sheds their armor for the sake of speed. Unencumbered by the weight, they're less resilient, but much more mobile. This can turn them from a Mighty Glacier or Stone Wall into a Fragile Speedster. In cases of extreme power level or where Armor Is Useless, this can lead to the armor effectively being a Power Limiter and/or invoking the Bishonen Line. The Action Dress Rip is related, in that they're both sacrificing clothing for mobility, though the circumstances are usually fairly different.

Compare Didn't Need Those Anyway!, which often overlaps with this trope when it comes to video game enemies. If it happens to a boss, it's probably a sign that he Turned Red. Compare also Disposable Vehicle Section; sometimes overlaps when the thing being shed is the vehicle's protective armor.
A good example of this in a game in Armored Cored. In that game I had a light mass AC designed for speed and melee, but I purposely put a lot of missiles pods on and had gatling guns in each hand that I didn't need on my AC which put me well over the weight limit for the arms and legs I was using. This means that I could only move super slowly at the start of each battle. In PvP this made some of the people fight against laugh at me because they knew I couldn't really move with all those heavy weapons on putting me over the weight limit. But my tactic at start of each battle was just fire all my weapons none stop at the same time and just drop them when they ran out of ammo. This was enough to surprise good number of people as they would start to notice that I would move faster as I purged my gear. That is if they was not killed in the first few seconds of the fight by the rain of 20+ missiles and wall of bullets heading at them all at once. For the people who had enough armor to tank the damage or was fast enough to hide a rock or something they would have to deal with me running and flying around to fast for even their targeting computers could trick while I would hit them in the back with energy sword or pile driver.

Any I think it would be fun to have an such a game mechanic in this game. That why while in missions I could just drop useless weapons to gain more speed and power. Because I'm the type of person who loves to snipe enemies while firing a bombardment of missiles at them, but also the type of person who loves to melee.
 

Pandagnome

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#2
This thread is about the topic of mass and speed with option to drop things to gain more speed. I bring this up because in a few mecha games I've played one of the game mechanics they have is the ability to drop/detach weapons while in the middle of combat. Doing so removes the mass of the object from your mecha which can help you get into smaller spaces or make you move faster going by your build. In these games you can take advantage of the shed armor to gain speed troop.



A good example of this in a game in Armored Cored. In that game I had a light mass AC designed for speed and melee, but I purposely put a lot of missiles pods on and had gatling guns in each hand that I didn't need on my AC which put me well over the weight limit for the arms and legs I was using. This means that I could only move super slowly at the start of each battle. In PvP this made some of the people fight against laugh at me because they knew I couldn't really move with all those heavy weapons on putting me over the weight limit. But my tactic at start of each battle was just fire all my weapons none stop at the same time and just drop them when they ran out of ammo. This was enough to surprise good number of people as they would start to notice that I would move faster as I purged my gear. That is if they was not killed in the first few seconds of the fight by the rain of 20+ missiles and wall of bullets heading at them all at once. For the people who had enough armor to tank the damage or was fast enough to hide a rock or something they would have to deal with me running and flying around to fast for even their targeting computers could trick while I would hit them in the back with energy sword or pile driver.

Any I think it would be fun to have an such a game mechanic in this game. That why while in missions I could just drop useless weapons to gain more speed and power. Because I'm the type of person who loves to snipe enemies while firing a bombardment of missiles at them, but also the type of person who loves to melee.
That is interesting could we also pick up weapons from others or have a special adapter that lets us and if its a kaiju weapon do we need some form of reverse engineering module to help with function of the kaiju weapon hmm
 
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Omnires

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Aug 14, 2016
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#3
That is interesting could we also pick up weapons from others or have a special adapter that lets us and if its a kaiju weapon do we need some form of reverse engineering module to help with function of the kaiju weapon hmm
I was thinking of that too, but couldn't think of a good way to put it. But I would love it if you could also just pick up things in the environment to fight with if you ran out of ammo or you weapons broke or something. Like ripping out an automatic AA turret out off the enemy base's wall and using it against them. Or picking up of one of the over sized weapons that bosses use and keeping it as your own. Even if you have to drop every other weapon you have just so you don't go over the weight of your omniframe.

And that is where you start getting into mecha builds that are designed around the use of a weapon rather than finding weapons to fit the mecha build. For example, like a person who designs a frame to be a light mass as possible with an over sized power core and thrusters so they can stay in the air and hover over things like water for a super long time without moving. So they can use is one large long range energy cannon that does a ton of damage. The mecha is just designed to let them snipe enemies while flying and hovering in the air while staying out of range, as well as to being able to out run homing missiles and stuff in case they are found.
 
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Pandagnome

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#4
I was thinking of that too, but couldn't think of a good way to put it. But I would love it if you could also just pick up things in the environment to fight with if you ran out of ammo or you weapons broke. Like ripping out an automatic AA turret out off the enemy base wall and using it against them. Picking up of the over sized weapons that bosses use and keeping it as your own
Imagine that some weapons need to be hacked to be accessed or some junkyard area where you can get some weapon that could be used temporary until it just breaks. Then as you say what if the weapon itself for example the boss weapon needs special crafted area to make the energy or projectile to fire that weapon otherwise its just for one use.

What if we could have 1 weapon that combines 2 types of weapon in 1 e.g. a flamethrower/rocket
so you could cook away things and fire rockets for longer distance.
What about a sniper with a uzi connected to its side to switch from one another.
How about an shock blaster with a chainsaw to blast them in the air and chop as they come down

Would 2 weapons in 1 be as good as 1 weapon in each hand? Could we have 3 in 1 etc etc or is that too much?

weapon choices be fun way to take out enemies in different ways with however the player's play-style approaches the situation.
 

Omnires

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Aug 14, 2016
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#5
Imagine that some weapons need to be hacked to be accessed or some junkyard area where you can get some weapon that could be used temporary until it just breaks. Then as you say what if the weapon itself for example the boss weapon needs special crafted area to make the energy or projectile to fire that weapon otherwise its just for one use.

What if we could have 1 weapon that combines 2 types of weapon in 1 e.g. a flamethrower/rocket
so you could cook away things and fire rockets for longer distance.
What about a sniper with a uzi connected to its side to switch from one another.
How about an shock blaster with a chainsaw to blast them in the air and chop as they come down

Would 2 weapons in 1 be as good as 1 weapon in each hand? Could we have 3 in 1 etc etc or is that too much?

weapon choices be fun way to take out enemies in different ways with however the player's play-style approaches the situation.
I always loved the idea of dual wielding gun-blades because I'm ambidextrous in real life. Sadly in games there are rarely ambidextrous options for characters and weapon load outs, let alone the option to dual wield things like gun-blades. And before anyone says anything, no Final Fantasy didn't make up the idea of the gun-sword, as gun-blades are real weapons that existed ever sense the days of the flintlock. Although things like the show RWBY take the idea to the extreme.

For the people who want to know more about real life gun-blades.
Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword


P.S. there was also gun-shields that knights would use.
 
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Pandagnome

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#6
I always loved the idea of dual wielding gun-blades because I'm ambidextrous in real life. Sadly in games there are rarely ambidextrous options for characters and weapon load outs, let alone the option to dual wield things like gun-blades. And before anyone says anything, no Final Fantasy didn't make up the idea of the gun-sword, as gun-blades are real weapons that existed ever sense the days of the flintlock. Although things like the show RWBY take the idea to the extreme.

For the people who want to know more about real life gun-blades.
Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword


P.S. there was also gun-shields that knights would use.
In the video they mention the weight issue, wouldnt be a problem since the mechs are strong enough to handle the weight of the sword gun apart from the capacity it could carry in total. Lets say the sword or knife could be concealed within the weapon so that when you do melee the blade would extend and when using the gun itself the blade would retract back into the weapon.
 
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Omnires

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Aug 14, 2016
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#7
In the video they mention the weight issue, wouldnt be a problem since the mechs are strong enough to handle the weight of the sword gun apart from the capacity it could carry in total. Lets say the sword or knife could be concealed within the weapon so that when you do melee the blade would extend and when using the gun itself the blade would retract back into the weapon.
I can see that. And also see having a split swords that looks kind of like a tuning fork where the gap between the blades act as the gun barrel for a railgun or charged particle beam or plasma gun. Really it is because of energy guns that give me hope of seeing more types of gunblades in the future because of the fact energy weapons can be much smaller and lighter than ballistic weapons while still doing the same amount of damage.

Also with the idea of the melee weapon that looks like a tuning fork you could also make it act like one to better damage and break armor. Because you hit the enemy armor and find the armor's resonance frequency, then you just amplify that sound to the point where their armor breaks itself apart. Or you can make sounds that will do things like stun and confuse enemies because you are vibrating their internal organs. Fun fact, there is a sound wave that is at the resonance frequency of the fluid inside the human eye that makes it hard to see clearly. I can see doing something like to monsters to make it hard for them to aim at me.

There is also the idea of bifurcated weapons. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BifurcatedWeapon
 
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Pandagnome

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#8
Also with the idea of the melee weapon that looks like a tuning fork you could also make it act like one to better damage and break armor. Because you hit the enemy armor and find the armor's resonance frequency, then you just amplify that sound to the point where their armor breaks itself apart. Or you can make sounds that will do things like stun and confuse enemies because you are vibrating their internal organs. Fun fact, there is a sound wave that is at the resonance frequency of the fluid inside the human eye that makes it hard to see clearly. I can see doing something like to monsters to make it hard for them to aim at me.
I'd like to see this also, perhaps the frequency has the pros of damaging and causing damage but lets say this frequency brings more attention to depending how long you use it. Can the frequency be used for echo location too for example at night when the lights are out and the frequency could hit objects to give a signature wave form that represent whatever object it hits guess like the scan hammer in firefall that was cool!
 
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Drakin5

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Dec 15, 2016
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#9
A good example of this in a game in Armored Cored. In that game I had a light mass AC designed for speed and melee, but I purposely put a lot of missiles pods on and had gatling guns in each hand that I didn't need on my AC which put me well over the weight limit for the arms and legs I was using. This means that I could only move super slowly at the start of each battle. In PvP this made some of the people fight against laugh at me because they knew I couldn't really move with all those heavy weapons on putting me over the weight limit. But my tactic at start of each battle was just fire all my weapons none stop at the same time and just drop them when they ran out of ammo. This was enough to surprise good number of people as they would start to notice that I would move faster as I purged my gear. That is if they was not killed in the first few seconds of the fight by the rain of 20+ missiles and wall of bullets heading at them all at once. For the people who had enough armor to tank the damage or was fast enough to hide a rock or something they would have to deal with me running and flying around to fast for even their targeting computers could trick while I would hit them in the back with energy sword or pile driver.

Any I think it would be fun to have an such a game mechanic in this game. That why while in missions I could just drop useless weapons to gain more speed and power. Because I'm the type of person who loves to snipe enemies while firing a bombardment of missiles at them, but also the type of person who loves to melee.
Nice concept but however that runs the risk of these disadvantages:

1) that is more of an alpha striker kind of build; that means that your first attack SHOULD connect. If you miss or somehow the enemy withstood your attack, be prepared to eat a counter.

2) if you’re using disposable weapons at the start, it’d be wasteful if you use high quality resources for making them.

3) you’d be using guerilla tactics most of the time. Since you just dropped or depleted all of your powerful guns from the start, you’d be screwed should you decide to stay around for dessert.
 

Omnires

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Aug 14, 2016
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#10
Nice concept but however that runs the risk of these disadvantages:

1) that is more of an alpha striker kind of build; that means that your first attack SHOULD connect. If you miss or somehow the enemy withstood your attack, be prepared to eat a counter.

2) if you’re using disposable weapons at the start, it’d be wasteful if you use high quality resources for making them.

3) you’d be using guerilla tactics most of the time. Since you just dropped or depleted all of your powerful guns from the start, you’d be screwed should you decide to stay around for dessert.
Those drawbacks can be easily countered by someone who knows what they are doing. Like in the example I give, notices how I said my mecha was designed for high speed and melee combat, all those extra guns and missiles was never needed to make the build work in the first place. The only reason I used them at the start of fighting was to do spray-and-pray tactics over an large area to destroy all the weaker targets and enemies in an area. Or to focus all that damage on one heavily armored target (like a battleship or walking fortress). Anything that was able to survive the attack will have to deal with my real fighting style, a hyper speed melee fighter who can use a sniper rifle at close range (again using the sniper rifle at close range is not just because of the massive damage but also because of a bit of psychological warfare as most people wouldn't think at person would use one at close range.). Because battles are won and lost first in the mind before the fighting even happens. Never underestimate the power of the the unexpected when in a fight. For within that moment when your enemy is trying to think about what you are doing and what is happening is all the time you need end the fight.

Also disposable by their nature are not really meant to be reuse or last that long so be thrown away / purged. Like how we have single use rocket launchers and the like in real life. They are easy and cheep to build so it doesn't matter of you just drop it after you use it to remove the weight.

Also on the topic of using sniper rifles at close range. It would be nice that if like in real life things like sniper rifles get damage bonus for being at close range, because their is less energy drop off the rounds has that much more of an impact when it hits.
 
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Daynen

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Aug 3, 2016
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#11
I enjoyed dropping weight with weapons in AC, but I never really built overweight builds, mainly because I couldn't stand the constant warning sound that played while overweight. Drove me nuts. There IS tactical merit to the idea however. Hell you see it in anime and RPG's all the time right? Big bad hulk takes some hits after unloading some payload and then goes "now I'll show you my TRUE FORM!" and like sheds his heavy armor before dashing around and blitzing you like a maniac.

Don't discount the shock factor of a sudden style switch in the middle of a fight...
 
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