GLIDER TUNING BUILD phase 2 ("New Copa" UE 4) - feedback thread

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
314
612
93
sya.li
#3
I still maintain that Q has to be nerfed to judge movement in general better. Gliding can't be experienced when the height isn't realistic.

I'll be working over the next short while to get my mouse explanations demonstrated. Because of sensitivity awkwardness I can't test the nuances of gliding.
 
Jul 27, 2016
146
294
63
Massachusetts
#4
Great job! I noticed I seem to burn more fuel. This is good, as it forces me to choose other tactics sometimes. I'm not too keen on the shaking during gliding, though I would expect that kind of shaking if I was encountering a strong side wind or something. But shaking when diving straight down feels good and dangerous. I like it. xD I like that the glider can stall, and I like that if I am high up in the air I can still recover from a stall.

One bug that I encountered, not related to gliding, my weapon jammed while performing some combination of switching weapons, reloading, targeting missiles. I couldn't recreate it, and it cleared up on its own after about 1 minute. It actually felt real to me - like I was doing to much and my weapon jammed. Forced me to retreat. Good game mechanic if we can cause it to happen on purpose. xD

I streamed a little bit. The weapon malfunction happens right around 33:11
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1037253079

Cheers!
 

Skube

Firstclaimer
Hypedration
Jul 26, 2016
109
403
63
www.youtube.com
#5
Now that the Glider deployment cost fuel I would suggest adding some upward thrust and than deploying the glider. this will make the fuel consumption make sense as you use it to thrust yourself upwards a bit to gain some altitude if you just jump and deploy the glider.
 
Likes: Pandagnome
Jul 27, 2016
146
294
63
Massachusetts
#6
I still maintain that Q has to be nerfed to judge movement in general better. Gliding can't be experienced when the height isn't realistic.
I like the feel of Overthrust - being thrown far in a single direction. I'm hoping there will always be some version of that, maybe with a greater cooldown, or an ability that has to be refilled with crafted objects, or something like that so I can't go wizzing around the planet willy-nilly.

Another thing they could do to limit Overthrust is put a cooldown on the glider whenever Overthust is used. Lore-wise it could be explained as overthrust taps so much energy that your frame experiences a 1 to 2 second power drain across all systems.

However they do it, I definitely believe that Overthrust should be using a larger chunk of fuel.
 

punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
101
150
43
Sweden
#7
Here's my collective report as usual. I'll keep it strictly to this demo and possibly the previous demo where "chat" was created, as many of the older bugs still exist and has been logged. I can repost everything i've discovered in the past if needed.

There's a major issue with twitchyness as you turn too fast during glide, if you turn too fast while gliding smoothly your toon will be all over the place, in addition, this happens more often if you turn while stalling (no keyboard buttons involved). Thought it was a ping issue at first but then people with much lower ping replied with the same experience.

I'd like for chat to be on the left side of the screen, preferably on the bottom left but upper left works as well. Ultimately it'd be nice with a modular chat especially in the future if you're going to have tabs for General, Trade, and Squad chats... I'd like to be able to manage what is shown much like Tera or Aion. Both of which also used UnrealEngine.

It'd be nice if you also added missile capabilities during glide.

There's a missing smiley ":p" where it says :tounge_stuck_out:
 
Aug 9, 2018
19
66
13
#8
Personally not a fan of the speed. It feels too fast. I actually enjoyed the old glide speed but understand a slight increase. This speed however feels too fast and twitchy. it also seems like the animation between jumping (thrust up) and gliding feels janky because of how fast it moves. The upward thrust could be a little faster (probably upgrades with resource gathering) but Id rather see some of that speed in gliding get swapped to thrust. the speed gained instantly doesn't make sense and I'd rather see speed over time.

Pretty happy with the chat addition in its infancy.
 

liandri

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 29, 2016
419
1,054
93
Zone of Bones, Australia
#9
Prefacing this by saying honestly, super impressed with the gliding mechanics now. The devs have done a tremendous job on it. It feels very smooth bar the zig-zagging, the drops feel really nice and the animations telegraph when it's about to happen. The additional speed downward feels natural enough and would be great to drop in on a horde of Tsi-hu, while gliding for distance is pretty cruisy. Looking forward to the new map to test gliding more (with the additional light frame stuff). Hopefully it's bigger so we can get a good sense of distance.

- The stuttering/zig-zagging glider is back, easily replicated at high speeds or immediately after pulling up sharply from a dive. It makes it very difficult to tell where you really are, and I can't tell if it's client side only yet. The last time I saw this was in the FirstPersonDemo (where there really wasn't a limit on speed).
- Didn't have to mess with any settings this time. Everything carried over from the last build. Mouse smoothing was showing as disabled, but in the .ini file it was True. Still something wrong with the creation of the .ini files and how they're read, almost as if the game uses its own copy sometimes.
There's a missing smiley ":p" where it says :tounge_stuck_out:
It's :stuck_out_tongue:, same as Discord. It makes more sense your way though.
 
Jul 4, 2017
21
55
13
#10
Now that the Glider deployment cost fuel I would suggest adding some upward thrust and than deploying the glider.
Craftable addons to change/adjust the deplayment behaviour??

I realy enjoy the new gliding feel,maybe heavier gravity?With the stall mechanic it takes some practice to learn how much to dive and how much to pull up to keep the momentum and cover larger distances.

One suggestion:start the glider cooldown after you disengage from glideing,it would make it feel more of a commitment.

Biggest problem I have is ze Q,in Firefall it was more of a pvp ability used to close the gap or reposition(yes it was much weaker),if we have dash and it can be ajustable through crafting,I don't see the need for it.
As for the current iteration as a travel ability,I don't want it to become the Warframe archwing blink.

Story time:When Firefall was dieing I switched to Warframe,the annoucement of Plains of Eidolon(new open world) got my attention,a year before it's release.
When it released as a mode of fast travel you could use archwings,but it was a deployable that you had to earn through grinding and you have to craft it.So in the beginning most people crosed the plains by foot.It was very enjoyable

With time more people got the deployable,the problem now was that new players that didn't have it got left behind and by the time they got to the objective generaly it was completed or half way done.To mitigate that the devs removed the deployable grind and crafting requirements,if you did the archwing quest(exited long beforw the plains of eidolon),you could use it on the go.

With the release of the next open world map,Orb Vallis,they introduced a new mode of travel in the form of k-drives(hoverboards).Much more cooler way of transportation in my opinion,but an obsolete design since archwings are faster.After players max lvl the k-drives they are rarely used,i only see new players use them,but I think it's just to lvl them.

Next problem after that was that everyone used just 1 archwing(there are 5 in total,I think)because it had a blink ability,to mitigate that they made blink universal.

So now the open worlds feel small and uningageing,since everyone just zipp around from waypoint to waypoint to finish the missions to lvl up and complete the content.

I have watched some new players steam warframe and they realy seam to enjoy mining,but I don't think because is some amazing mechanic,I think is more because they slow down and stick more to the ground and get to enjoy the content and the few random encounters.

In Firefall lgvs and glider didn't exclude one another,they were both complementary,there were sittuations where lgv made more sense especially if you went uphill and aituations that gliding made more sense.I don't know maybe is nostalgia but if memory serves right we stick more to the ground in Firefall,and that made the world feel more engaging.I don't want Warframe archwing blink convenience,I want a game that engages me and that includes traveling.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,117
9,590
113
Island of Tofu
#11
My first impression its fast and the little shake gives it that super speed feel. I hate trees managed to clip a few and it stops my gliding enjoyment :oops:

When the glider stalls would prefer a sound before it did because even that little triangle telling you to move a bit down doesn't help on its own. I think in firefall there was a sound cue and i really like that giving me a better indication.

Sometimes after a long glide it would be a struggle to turn left happened twice not sure what caused it but it didn't happen often.


I still maintain that Q has to be nerfed to judge movement in general better. Gliding can't be experienced when the height isn't realistic.
Q is nice but when you float near the end of Q seems slow, i like Q what it could be is more acceleration covering a slightly less distance with less of the floating near the end if that makes sense?


I was doing to much and my weapon jammed. Forced me to retreat. Good game mechanic if we can cause it to happen on purpose. xD
I hate those jammed weapons could work well if tsihu used some weapon jamming device and you have to take it out some way or you continue to get sporadic gun jams!


Now that the Glider deployment cost fuel I would suggest adding some upward thrust and than deploying the glider. this will make the fuel consumption make sense as you use it to thrust yourself upwards a bit to gain some altitude if you just jump and deploy the glider.
I really like that idea it makes sense seeing that!


I like the feel of Overthrust - being thrown far in a single direction. I'm hoping there will always be some version of that, maybe with a greater cooldown, or an ability that has to be refilled with crafted objects, or something like that so I can't go wizzing around the planet willy-nilly.

Another thing they could do to limit Overthrust is put a cooldown on the glider whenever Overthust is used. Lore-wise it could be explained as overthrust taps so much energy that your frame experiences a 1 to 2 second power drain across all systems.
Personally not a fan of the speed. It feels too fast. I actually enjoyed the old glide speed but understand a slight increase. This speed however feels too fast and twitchy.
I wonder if we have options of different glider profiles

- Performance Glider (Super fast but consumes more energy)
- Balanced Glider (A good compromise between speed and energy consumption)
- Enduro Glider (Lower energy than the rest but can glider more longer slower before stalling)

I think a slight cool down would be good for Q but what if you have 2 variations of Q
A) Max overthrust - Cool down much longer and provides more drive
B) Burst thrust - Short burst force at a reduced distance with a shorter cool down

That way A) as an example could be more used strategically than spam often, B) on the other hand could be used a few times but it would be more of a dash type than double tapping.


It'd be nice if you also added missile capabilities during glide.

Ah yes and also Imagine if there were alternative options like glide bombing capabilities and plop away from the skies.



k-drives(hoverboards).Much more cooler way of transportation in my opinion
I love those K drives and running on the ground most, the archwing is good in space but it wasn't my thing especially in railjack the spaceship is much more fun makes me feel like i was in startrek at times :D

In Firefall lgvs and glider didn't exclude one another,they were both complementary,there were sittuations where lgv made more sense especially if you went uphill and aituations that gliding made more sense.I don't know maybe is nostalgia but if memory serves right we stick more to the ground in Firefall,and that made the world feel more engaging.I don't want Warframe archwing blink convenience,I want a game that engages me and that includes traveling.
The mgv's were nice too taking a buddy around, and yes lgv's were just very stylish and hearing the engine humming as you wonder exploring it all.

Only used gliding to get to higher points either by hopping into the drop ship and jumping out or going to higher altitudes to then glide off and check other spots, even the iconic Arclight ship.

My main transport in Firefall was between the lgv, mgv.

I am going to say that gliding is going to be way better in Em8er as there will be more to discover i am still looking forward to the other transport options such as the hovercopter and that neat tank etc etc.
 
Jul 4, 2017
21
55
13
#12
The mgv's were nice too taking a buddy around, and yes lgv's were just very stylish and hearing the engine humming as you wonder exploring it all.

Only used gliding to get to higher points either by hopping into the drop ship and jumping out or going to higher altitudes to then glide off and check other spots, even the iconic Arclight ship.

My main transport in Firefall was between the lgv, mgv.

I am going to say that gliding is going to be way better in Em8er as there will be more to discover i am still looking forward to the other transport options such as the hovercopter and that neat tank etc etc.
Forgot mgvs was a thing.
Am I the only one that used glider pads with every oportunity(no matter how small) that I had?When ever I left a hub or a watchtower was by glider.Especialy the route from Thump Dump to Copa was by glider.But then again most of my time spent in game was on the Coral Forest map,I think it was the most glideable map.I just rememberd mushroo island.....

I don't know,it felt like firefall had more verticality,climbing a hill or a mountain took time,in this demo you can get on top of everything with no problem,but then again this is not firefall,em8er should be its own game and if travesal is fun who am I to judge.It's just a demo so there are a lot of things we don't know
Just don't want instant gratification.
 
Mar 11, 2017
30
94
18
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#13
So things I noticed in the new demo:

- terminal velocity was added and feels good but i noticed that a lot of it is visual and when flying across the map it doesn't seem like your gliding as super fast as all the vibrations make you feel you are.

-the vibrations of "air resistance" while gliding can come into affect at weird time occasionally when you wouldn't expect it so needs a little more tuning for when its triggered.

- the peak for dive and arcing back up to gain altitude seems great and feels nice you have that fast dive steady climb then it wobbles out as you lose speed and then forces you to drop down a ways if you try to hold going up to maintain it. This part was implemented beautifully.

- the camera backing off as you dive from very tall heights feels great and definitely makes you feel like your falling faster to that static point which then feels like the terminal velocity as you stop growing smaller and the vibrations hit max.

- the consumption of fuel was barely noticeable when using the abilities to sky climb and it makes me feel like its being implemented for the wrong reason the afterburner ability needs nerfed more than fuel needs taken away when starting gliding because in the current method really only affects you if your trying to do a lot of short burst gliding because you can jump up glide then stay up a little while using jump jets till you get glider back then fly again but then your basically out of fuel and have to run everywhere until you recharge a ways.

- for medium frame the fuel concept does make sense though because your using that extra fuel to propel it forward and in a light frame you would need even less if any at all but i feel like for combat situations being able to get 3 jump and glides before having to run around and refuel might be better but this is my personal opinion and might be one of those things you design your frame to do.

All things said and done though love the demo and the continued progress on the game keep up the great work yall!!
 

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
170
476
63
California, CA
#14
:Glider Feedback:
Glider base horizontal speed is too fast, maybe unchanged from previous build. The landscape spance just feels so much smaller and not dangerous or difficult to traverse as soon as gliders are engaged.

Glider downward acceleration is great. It feels like the correct acceleration rate.

Glider horizontal deceleration is great.

Camera Shake while using glider comes on too soon and becomes too excessive.

Glider Camera rubber band is too lax. I do not believe the player should be capable of exiting the screen.

Gilder wind sound is too noisy when gliding at slower speeds.

:Overthrust Feedback:
Though the Overthrust travel distance is immense the ability does not have that "umph" or "pizzazz" to really make it exciting. Overthrust currently is better than its original Em8er release but it just lacks amazement...someone said in the previous feedback thread iirc, Overthrust needs to have the instantaneous launch speed like the old Afterburner. Surely nobody would survive the G forces but it needs it.

Overthrust distance is too far...maybe. When I use Overthrust I do not feel like I have any real control or any real guess on where I'll end up or when. Without practice the distance is just too immense to predict. While Overthrust is active I just kind sit there...waiting for the not so exciting ride to be over.

:Overthrust and World Gravity:
imo the gravity acceleration in the world is too low. After a using Overthrust (and jump jets) the mek just kinda lazily floats down. Another game that feels similar with low gravity is Halo. Our meks are so speedy but when it comes to falling it's slow...it makes the activity of ending jump jets and Overthrust boring. The glider is faster at falling than actually falling.

Overthrust has no fineness potential. Overthrust has no downward arc which makes the whole flight process unnaturally floaty and bland. It's a straight shot which makes using it as a means of jumping over landscapes a 2 button action, Overthrust for distance then glider to land where you want, rather than skillfully and with fineness arcing your launch to land where you want.

:Bug Stuff:

Jet system doesn't work while mek is in the Falling state

Jet System works as Air Brakes. I believe jets should maintain horizontal momentum when exiting Overthrust and Gliders. Perhaps adding in a keybind or double tap to make jumpjets trigger air brakes?

:Other Stuff:
I know the animations aren't finished but: Landing on the ground while traveling extremely slowly with the Glider has the player briefly enter the slide animation. It is a weird and not smooth transition. The slide animation should be automatic when a player lands with a minimum horizontal speed. When a player lands below the minimum they should instead enter the sprint animation.
 

ScorpyX

Deepstriker
Jul 29, 2016
34
83
18
#17
- If you dive straight down from a great height - speed is picking up too fast
More limited acceleration (not maximum speed) may make acceleration feel more comfortable...
(and maximum speed cases less extreame)
You can also add "air resistance"
which will increase the reverse braking force above the threshold speed (maximum adequate speed)
It will eliminate cases of crazy wild speed with maximum acceleration

- camera shaking is uncomfortable and too strong at high speeds
But overall, the shaking adds a pleasant acceleration sensation
I would like a more comfortable shaking effect
Main problem is not being able to clearly see what is ahead
and where the cursor is - or the center of the screen
(too much shaking - turns the image into noise)

- a slight delay in turning after turning the camera is a very pleasant thing
but at high speeds this effect increases in direct proportion
which makes turns impossible - unplayble
The higher the speed, the faster you need to turn
but the delay time between camera rotation and character rotation remains the same
this means that when the player reacts and turns the camera
it will be too late and the character does not have time to turn - crash into an obstacle
* this leads to abnormal behavior
when the player will remember to turn in advance even before the moment of turning has occurred

i think simple solution to reducing "turn delay time" proportionally
relative to the "speed increase" can fix the problem.
Then "turn delay" will be feel same (comfortable) at any speed

(with nice Mouse Sensitivity Settings - turning problem not so painful - but still exist)


PS. and please... add markers or change distance for players nicknames
it's a terrible feeling not to see where other players is - in MMO game
Distance at which the player character models (Actors) and Nicknames disappears
SO SMALL... it feels like 1990s games..
I want to see player glider lines on Horizon! and other players movement on ground
At least show player character models - it will be enough

---
With Love to Em-8er Team - and Em-8er Project
 
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Silv3r Shadow

Max Kahuna
Max Kahuna
Kaiju Slayer
Jul 29, 2016
341
762
93
#18
The changes to the assault rifle is perfect, my camera isnt shaking all over the place (while in 3rd person, however, still shakes crazy in 1st person)

Since that 'hitting things' now feels like its been fixed, i realized that the actual aiming settings was quite off.

with some changes to the ingame settings, aiming feels great and i played for around 3 hours
the default mouse settings were no good with aiming for me, but i found these ones I made were spot on for me, (noting my screen is 3440x1440 with larger FOV than most)



i recommend changing negative mouse acceleration, to positive mouse acceleration and the sliders accordingly to the screenshot numbers (play around with it to suit you of course)


For me, Negative mouse acceleration was set as default, imo when you try to aiming slowly it would be large movements and moving the mouse fast was bottlenecked


Changing to positive mouse acceleration with the greater accel start around 5 and around 6 end allows small movements to be small and smooth while fast reactions be fast and slowing down snap onto where you want to look/aim with 2 multiplier.
This made it feel like overwatch type fps aiming

if you still have difficulties aiming, unlock sensitivity for horizontal/vertical, reduce the vertical sensitivity a little bit

Note: everyones computer will have different default/setups for sensitivity, but the mouse processing changes was a great improvement for me


my mouse is Logitech G502 TRACKING Sensor: HERO™ Resolution: 100 – 25,600 dpi
 
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ScorpyX

Deepstriker
Jul 29, 2016
34
83
18
#19
i recommend changing negative mouse acceleration, to positive mouse acceleration
Oh my Em-8er Gods! you totaly right!
i kind of ignoring this moment before
but last week i change my 1080p monitor on 3440x1440
and mouse movement become a notable problem
(i use Logitech G305 - on 800-1200 dpi all time)

i change Negative Mouse Acceleration to Positive,
Accel Start to: 6 - Accel End to: 8 - Accel Multiplier to: 1.5
And mouse movement feels Amazing now (as i love and greatly Care)
(Tested in fast combats with Tsi-Hu and Glieder)

Most games use Positive Acceleration...
which you know - actually rational thing to do
because its improve mouse control precision and comfort (less misses)

My main point here - to Leave Mouse Acceleration Spliders in Video Options forever!
DO NOT REMOVE IT FROM SETTINGS - IT WILL HURTS SOME PLAYERS EXPERIENCE A LOT
 

ScorpyX

Deepstriker
Jul 29, 2016
34
83
18
#20
Skills is not focus of this demo but...

DeepStrike skill [E] right know - works strictly vertical
Players Always miss targets on ground with no damage to enemy
and reverse - Enemy can damage player on ground until skill animations not ended

I think this skill require more modern approach
- Wider AOE Damage zone on ground
- Ability to use skill on little Angle (not strictly vertical line)
it will give player ability to AIM on enemy position
- Faster animation and approach to land point on ground
Right know player start on enemy position - but enemy just move on from damage zone
(and player again miss target)
- This approch have space for in-game skill modification
As example for more wide cone Angle attack on 30-45' (like in Halo or Warframe games)
it will be same skill but with very different gameplay feel and damage results
 
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Likes: Wyntyr