Em8er Progress?

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
103
216
43
#1
Greetings Gatestriders!
gatestrider (1).png
I am Chazz, I have been supporting the Em8er project for many many years. Throughout those years my opinions on the project have swung back and forth like a pendulum, I have been kind and I have been harsh. I have had both constructive and destructive criticism for the project, but in general I have tried my best to follow the conversations which I thought were true.

I am friendly with a lot of the community members and I respect a lot of them whether I disagree with them or not, and I have spent a decent amount of time over the years talking to people about the Em8er project. I would like to open dialogue here with the community members, because I would like to see your opinions in a collective space respectfully.

This is not a thread for debate, but I would appreciate it if you are a part of the community that you could offer up your opinions on the 8 years we have been here. I want to know how you are feeling and thinking about things because I think it matters.

Do you think the current progress equates to the timeline or not, why do you think this is the case?
 

Shanie

Omni Ace
Sep 23, 2018
23
80
13
#2
Any backer who has been in this community for over 3 years has expected many chunks of the game to release by now through Crixa's own established timeline(s), a mere few of them releasing publicly during this process.

What I have seen in the last two years are:
  • A substantial, incredibly significant stagnation in development.
  • A loss of interest in keeping up with #no-zero-days
  • A significant reduction of Chief Chats.
  • A loss of interest in keeping up with skins for subscribers, the sole reason they subscribe apart from Em8ER development.
  • A substantial, significant increase in the CEOs interaction with Twitter, 99% of which has nothing to do with Em8ER.
  • Re-using old assets as if implying progress in Em8ERs development, which isn't sincere.
  • A substantial, significant increase of the CEO occupying their time talking to YouTube channels discussing things that have little to nothing to do with Em8ER's gameplay or progress.
  • An increase in indie journalists from all sorts of organizations noting much of the above and noting Em8ER's lack of progress.
I don't know what the objectives here are, but I don't believe them to have Em8ER's production or possible release in mind, and it's not simply the Backer community who has noticed this.

I believe, if Em8ER actually matters to Crixa and its owners:
  • Cut Twitter/X cold turkey. It has proven to be purposeless to the production of Em8ER and has significantly impacted development.
  • If the CEO is to go on a YouTube/Twitch stream, it should solely for marketing Em8ER.
  • Continue posting to the Em8ER Twitter by the Marketing team; someone who is NOT the Crixa CEO.
  • Continue posting to #no-zero-days. If #no-zero-days is not posted to, the Backers should assume nothing has been done this day. Include screenshots, even if it's unimpressive.
  • Focus on the project at hand and devise a plan to bring the goals to fruition. This is hard, and I don't envy the CEO for this job. But it's his job as Team Lead, and it's harder than any Team Lead job he's ever had because of the significant stranglehold of money on the project.
  • I don't want to have to say this, but if the above isn't feasible, it's time to get a publisher.
Many people have dropped their Subs simply because they feel their money is going into the void. Progress is, literally, money.
 

grayhammer#2116

Ark Liege
Ark Liege
Oct 28, 2021
14
40
13
28
#3
Bit of a Rant. Forgive me for my rage.

The current Progress does not lead up to 8 years of development, or work.

Recently He streamed and worked on Em8er, twice that I have been active, roughly 2-4 hours each where he worked on the new Tsi-Hu model, got it painted and ready to have its armor put on, then next stream it was to make an arena or showcase area to show them off. This was around the time we got the consolidated build.

The last time we had such activity, was back when we got the UE5move, the Kneebiter swarmer tech and the Tsi-Hu whitebox movement demo. That was almost 6-8 months ago.

I know its to be kept separate, but I cannot understate how important it is to my point. I can look at Grummz's twitter, and see he is hyperactive on that Platform. Every day he makes 8-12 posts, on average. While in No-Zero-Days I can point to it and see that its been updated at most 20 times, since he began his twitter campaign.

It feels like with 200k followers, if we take the law of averages and even just 5% of people are subscribed to him, he is making demonstrably more money there, than working on Em8er.

We are currently flooded on the discord with a ton of people from his twitter, ragging on the progress and just being mood killers, but I can't tell them they are wrong.

The first year I was here, we got 5 updates in a month, over the next year we got like 2 updates? This year we have had the consolidated demo update.

He says something will happen this Jan or Q1 of next year, but that's what he said last year, for this year.

I want him to give us a time when he will focus on Em8er full time, what exactly is he waiting on. What needs to get done. If he tells me that he is just waiting on new tech, or a freelancer programing on something, the new website or several projects need to be finished all together than I can forgive and
wait.

As of right now we know what is being worked on: Art Refresh, New Website.

The new Website has been being worked on for upwards of a year now. The Art Refresh is supposedly around the corner.

I could care less about the Art Update (Still Important), I want a tangible update to the demo, progressing to the vertical slice for Kickstarter. We can work with Whitebox's and Janky animations.

We need a Gatestrider Base on one end of the Map, a Tsi-Hu base on the other. Have patrols from both sides clashing, have the Current Thumper encounter, to gather resources to build up the Gatestrider base, defenses/facilities, add in a basic upgrade system (To show the gameplay loop) for weapons and or armor of Build X Building, supply Y resource get Z Upgrade. Have a Kiju bossfight. We also need the Light Omni-Frame.

We have the Medium Omni-Frame, TMPR encounter (resource gathering), and a few enemies (Getting reworked with the Art Refresh)

That be my take, I hope we see progress like I did when I first joined Em8er.
 

Shanie

Omni Ace
Sep 23, 2018
23
80
13
#4
We need a Gatestrider Base on one end of the Map, a Tsi-Hu base on the other. Have patrols from both sides clashing, have the Current Thumper encounter, to gather resources to build up the Gatestrider base, defenses/facilities, add in a basic upgrade system (To show the gameplay loop) for weapons and or armor of Build X Building, supply Y resource get Z Upgrade. Have a Kiju bossfight. We also need the Light Omni-Frame.
I simply wanted to quote this because this is exactly what is needed. The boss could be optional, whatever, obviously much harder to get in, but the rest is important. When we got an "AI Programmer" a couple years ago, this is what I assumed was next at bat. It should be the only thing being worked on.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,901
10,172
113
Island of Tofu
#5
The important things:

- Leave a legacy for Em8er to be that fun game, and make your family and community hyped.
- Devs more active in Em8er forum, to see this forum alive with activity not only from the community.
- Timeline a genuine one that gives us a better idea of what is to be expected as we continue on.
- Updates with proof that this is done either implemented in a new demo build or some small video clip of what is to come.
- Em8er team members would like to know more in how they are involved in this project and their feedback.
- New website anticipating this!
- Drive Em8er forwards this can be done with consistency and results.
 

Morihaus

Deepscanner
Apr 30, 2018
42
126
33
26
Maryland
#6
Magic 8ball says: "Outlook not so good."

Far too late for my refund. I learned my lesson about never doing what is effectively preordering (or in this case pre-preordering) and I'm mostly just tired of waiting. So I play other games, and in the future won't spend a dime on ideas that may end up being vaporware, concept PDFs, and/or flashy concept art.

My $34 vanished into the nether, never to be seen again, and I can accept that and have moved on. Early projects like these wither and die sometimes. Others backed more than I have as well, which is a shame, and I hope they aren't hurting too much for it.
 

liandri

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 29, 2016
450
1,119
93
Zone of Bones, Australia
#7
I'm loathe to ask for a roadmap after what happened last time, but as a backer, I have absolutely no clue where EM-8ER is from a development standpoint; only that it is nowhere near done and that I should not expect a vertical slice anytime soon.

I'll mention a few things:
1. No Zero Days
Lack of communication has been a constant complaint. The #no-zero-days chat resolved this somewhat initially. However, of the 284 days, 176 are missing any update. Not counting weekends, that is still close to 150 days, and that isn't discounting any day were he just wrote that he was sick and nothing else.
Regardless of the content (though I liked the thoughtfulness and longform of Medium), I appreciate seeing updates.

2. Development direction
I don't know if Mark is still aiming for the 4v1 kaiju hunting demo. I don't know if the Home demo is ever being released. What is the endpoint here beyond "getting to the Kickstarter"?

Echoing @grayhammer#2116's point re: a vertical slice. I like the idea and I remember saying something similar years ago. Having content in the demo that is representative of the final product, while also having that repeatability of an MMO too, is enough. There doesn't need to be spectacle if the core experience is enjoyable.

As for why I think progress and direction has been poor, there are two things in my mind.

1. Mark. I can't attest to what he does in his own time, or really what he does at any time, but it doesn't ever feel like he is putting 40 hours in. The project lives or dies on his ability to get it done and it can feel like he is letting it die. Why is speculation. Putting aside everything the casual haters say, outwardly he wants EM-8ER to live up to everyone's expectation and be the best game there is. The issue is Duke Nukem Forever. You can't always have the best tech, best ideas or biggest tiddies. You'll always play catch up to someone else, especially when there are so many games that do ***parts*** of what EM-8ER does better.

2. The Community. We were too nice and hyped so much 4 years ago, so we're paying for it now. I was pretty hyped up until the Claimstakes chat, where I had to really sit back and say "this isn't the game I paid for". I am very appreciative that people can openly voice their opinions (it would be remarkably hypocritical if we couldn't)

The resolution is simply to work on the actual demo. Add features. Reactivate that Taxi ability so players can go to a room with all the models, or to the ice world to mine and run around. Just put something new in consistently enough that you have players always running around checking out the new demo. Eventually, you'll have your vertical slice. You'll have your interested playerbase making videos and marketing for you. And you'll have money from people willing to back again because you showed you could pull it off. Here are a few to get started:

☐ Add a new weapon. Pick any primary from Firefall. Switching can be done through the C menu.
☐ Add a new enemy. The Tsi-hu armoured was removed, so he could come back. Give him a plasma cannon.
☐ Add a new ability. Firefall's Turret Mode is the easiest I can think of.
☐ Change the map. There was an interesting test map mentioned in Medium, which had segmented areas and floating platforms. That, or why not leverage voxels to add interesting features to the ice world (caverns, overhangs, etc). Add some blinking lights to guide you through the fog. Or a snowstorm!
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,901
10,172
113
Island of Tofu
#9
I just want the game to be released so I can start Taking names and mounting heads.
If there are clones could be e.g. bobobob12 and bobobo13 and so on not the best names but these code names were created to cover the true identity of secret tsihu's.

If you get the collection you are a bobobob Expert and have all the lore for the bobobob time stamped of your first bobobob encounter with a story to the last but there may never be a last since the time loop is infinite.

Then if we are talking about the biggest heads with the tiniest brain such as some kaiju's that could be shown in the way. How in iron man where he can store his ironman armor you get to instead cycle across and see the fat heads collection and micro heads too.

Nothing to do with heads but i really like to see this motorbike some have skulls on the front like the ghost rider hmm. Perhaps a variant bike with a toot followed by a laugh and the skull moves its mandible for that moment would like nice!
 
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zabernat#1238

Omega Founder
Oct 17, 2019
65
99
18
#10
Bit of a Rant. Forgive me for my rage.

The current Progress does not lead up to 8 years of development, or work.

Recently He streamed and worked on Em8er, twice that I have been active, roughly 2-4 hours each where he worked on the new Tsi-Hu model, got it painted and ready to have its armor put on, then next stream it was to make an arena or showcase area to show them off. This was around the time we got the consolidated build.

The last time we had such activity, was back when we got the UE5move, the Kneebiter swarmer tech and the Tsi-Hu whitebox movement demo. That was almost 6-8 months ago.

I know its to be kept separate, but I cannot understate how important it is to my point. I can look at Grummz's twitter, and see he is hyperactive on that Platform. Every day he makes 8-12 posts, on average. While in No-Zero-Days I can point to it and see that its been updated at most 20 times, since he began his twitter campaign.

It feels like with 200k followers, if we take the law of averages and even just 5% of people are subscribed to him, he is making demonstrably more money there, than working on Em8er.

We are currently flooded on the discord with a ton of people from his twitter, ragging on the progress and just being mood killers, but I can't tell them they are wrong.

The first year I was here, we got 5 updates in a month, over the next year we got like 2 updates? This year we have had the consolidated demo update.

He says something will happen this Jan or Q1 of next year, but that's what he said last year, for this year.

I want him to give us a time when he will focus on Em8er full time, what exactly is he waiting on. What needs to get done. If he tells me that he is just waiting on new tech, or a freelancer programing on something, the new website or several projects need to be finished all together than I can forgive and
wait.

As of right now we know what is being worked on: Art Refresh, New Website.

The new Website has been being worked on for upwards of a year now. The Art Refresh is supposedly around the corner.

I could care less about the Art Update (Still Important), I want a tangible update to the demo, progressing to the vertical slice for Kickstarter. We can work with Whitebox's and Janky animations.

We need a Gatestrider Base on one end of the Map, a Tsi-Hu base on the other. Have patrols from both sides clashing, have the Current Thumper encounter, to gather resources to build up the Gatestrider base, defenses/facilities, add in a basic upgrade system (To show the gameplay loop) for weapons and or armor of Build X Building, supply Y resource get Z Upgrade. Have a Kiju bossfight. We also need the Light Omni-Frame.

We have the Medium Omni-Frame, TMPR encounter (resource gathering), and a few enemies (Getting reworked with the Art Refresh)

That be my take, I hope we see progress like I did when I first joined Em8er.
I love the project but I do not love current progress. I understood that development would be weird following the closing of pack sales but that combined with the inrush of bad actors in the discord (concern trolls, theoretical backers that never really backed, and people trying to outright get the discord shut down) have made the community difficult to interact with.

I have always listened to progress updates and hypothetical roadmaps in Chief Chats and have to watch the next quarter or two after that hypothetical deadline passes before hearing that the deliverable is not coming.

The only thing I do not want to hear at this point is a hypothetical deliverable. Just keep posting updates as they come and please look back and quantify progress at the end of quarters. Right now that would probably not look good because there has only been one deliverable showing progress this year. I would much rather hear about that than non-game related deliverables that are not delivered.

The after effect of making the project more public due to internet fame is that people like myself frequently get put on the spot by concern trolls for backing the project and it has made me increasingly frustrated by the current slow progress.

To my knowledge, the website refresh is not even in the works at this point so let’s hope we can see the art refresh finished this year and put that milestone behind us.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
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Island of Tofu
#11
I would be happy if many of these points are taken into account, to show for all the trust many of us have in the Em8er game.

In the news there are politicians who say many things but not all are met after they have been elected.

With that analogy to win the trust and become a legend, there has to be that desire that started this from the very beginning to where it should be. A playable and fun game we can finally say sure did take a while and i am just glad this is what we got for all that waiting!

1728943589628.gif
So Em8er team i urge you to rally, pull your big pants up with inspiration and show us that you can deliver.
 
Mar 11, 2017
34
103
33
31
#12
So progress for this game has been a lot of backward and forward it was really going well and seemed to be steam rolling along on the old Unreal Engine but then when the New UE came out everything kind of came to a stand still as the developers took time to learn how it worked in demo, then how it worked after release, and then were able to start reworking on making a good game that was well optimized for all too play. The skins are awesome place holders the game seems to get lots of ideas and new directions or promises. I currently work more than I used to and no longer have as much time to dedicate to playing the demo and testing it for bugs or chilling and hanging out in the demo chats helping introduce new members of the community to the demo and game concept and talking with old FireFall players about the good old days.

It does seem like Grummz gets a little sidetracked sometimes with all the media stuff and trying to get Ember's name out there with a renaming possible and a new website and everything I would like to point out that most games that made a massive hit didn't always have that much hype normally its like a wild fire oh hey this cool big game came out looks cool friend tried it and enjoyed it for a little while and you get a huge group of all of their friends that follow and then friends of friends and so on and so on thus is the basest and best advertisements for a game.

I really enjoyed the no zero updates and am sad there hasn't been any very recently although I'm confident that there is still progress being made. I know that life has been difficult for the planet over these past 4 years and so don't expect time tables and all to be perfect but it would be nice to see some activity back in the thread.

Some of the things that make me feel like little progress is being made though on certain aspects of the game is like asking for the plasma cannon to be turned into a regular shoot able rifle instead of a charge cannon that feels slow and under powered. Firefall had no charged shots except for the 1 sniper class to my knowledge. So having a base start semi powerful charge weapon that was from the fastest dps unit in FireFall makes me kind of sad.

HOWEVER:

The fact that there is now fully modeled beautiful looking kaijus that don't glitch or look horrible when they run around the map makes me know that there is progress. Also the fact that Grummz had the community stress test their own gaming systems to get a feel for how intensive the game can be on cpu's and graphics cards and processors. The fact that we have fully art rendered model's of female characters wearing some of the awesome skins that we will be getting in game or that it's possible for people to get in game when it comes out if they don't want to buy it now. The fact that we know there is someone hired onto the team doing work on playable maps and landscapes that will be used in the gaming world once the slice of game is created. IT seems to me that most of the pieces are pretty much in place and maybe some things are being ironed out but that most of the things that have been delayed so long should be coming out within the next 12 months.

I have backed this game with a small fortune from my earnings and wish nothing but for it to succeed even if in a decade it is just a single player home demo that I can mod and play to my hearts content. I still would like to hype this development as much as possible but I am also completely understanding of delays. setbacks, and the turmoil that has been going on in the countries this game is being developed in for the last decade since I know that some of the developers are from all over the globe.

In Conclusion:

I know that the game has had some fan pleasing phases and I feel like it's future needs to greatly steer clear of pleasing the masses or the loudest voices and stay true to its roots and FireFall's original slice of play and where it was going. We didn't petition for FireFall copy and pasted but we did for FireFall's successor, not a compilation of every successful videogame since that's kind of like how FireFall was. I also can see that maybe its being sought to reach too far for the slice of life and will just mention that FireFall exploded into play when it started in closed alpha tests of a box with only 4v4 pvp if I recall correctly, so maybe start simple and build like the journey it deserves into something grand. It would be really hard to build the Eifel tower from the top to the bottom. It needs a strong foundation to start not a big one. Then I feel like this game will be on its feet running.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
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#13
I would like to point out that most games that made a massive hit didn't always have that much hype normally its like a wild fire oh hey this cool big game came out looks cool friend tried it and enjoyed it for a little while and you get a huge group of all of their friends that follow and then friends of friends and so on and so on thus is the basest and best advertisements for a game.
That is very true, when my friend started his small business the main attraction was from a small base.
Then as word was put out across, others began to spread the news through their own network and to others whom they interacted with along the way.

All down to good service and quality of what was provided compared to the competition that did the bare minimum generally and spat out customers to replace with newer one's. Which is a shame because those critical or making some noise were seen as the bad lot.

In the end some folks came over to my friends business because naturally if good news spreads there is a good vibe. Having a bunch of negative stuff time to time mentioned was addressed as long as you do your best in what you do best and resolve that!

After sometime local news papers took notice followed by social media and this increased the numbers from 30 - 140 in a few months or so which was great but meant more work, and that meant finding additional help to maintain the good standards and cover.

In the end my friend sold the small business because family was more important and the work life balance was not ideal during that time. With a good team and good communication between company and customers a good relation can be established for a well deserved long term trust.


I really enjoyed the no zero updates and am sad there hasn't been any very recently although I'm confident that there is still progress being made. I know that life has been difficult for the planet over these past 4 years and so don't expect time tables and all to be perfect but it would be nice to see some activity back in the thread.
Me too, one thing that really needs to be highlighted is better communication in the Em8er forum.
Even if updates or progress is slower we can still understand what the process is and not have the big worries of a huge gap and the thought of "what the heck is happening" .

Social media is good to blast stuff out for when you get things done, the example of in a team game you can perform quite bad but what matters most is the results in the end. Even if the result is bad that can show you at least did something and then can find a way to fix it with community feedback too.

The fact that there is now fully modeled beautiful looking kaijus that don't glitch or look horrible when they run around the map makes me know that there is progress. Also the fact that Grummz had the community stress test their own gaming systems to get a feel for how intensive the game can be on cpu's and graphics cards and processors. The fact that we have fully art rendered model's of female characters wearing some of the awesome skins that we will be getting in game or that it's possible for people to get in game when it comes out if they don't want to buy it now. The fact that we know there is someone hired onto the team doing work on playable maps and landscapes that will be used in the gaming world once the slice of game is created. IT seems to me that most of the pieces are pretty much in place and maybe some things are being ironed out but that most of the things that have been delayed so long should be coming out within the next 12 months.
Playing devils advocate since Halloween is approaching o.o
I agree that nice things are been shown as images the idea of seeing these images in demo is what would make many of us go WOAH.

As an example lets say 1 or 2 skins are implemented for the pilot so you could switch the look of the character skin to a standard uniformed reaper to a beach goer reaper. This way we can see even though the animation might not be completed, get to see something tangible and that skins are happening even if it is only one for the time.

Since we see many many images / concepts there is a thought that are we paying for a lot of images because of the number of images made available and hardly much shown in demo for that amount.

Wait a moment i see tsihu and they look very good yes, and what about to finally see, knee biters and a big kaiju in the demo wouldn't that be spectacular with the whole feel of the combat environment hmm

When ever looking back at the bike image keep thinking of when that day is to ride around and toot the horn because that one will be a great update in my opinion :D


In Conclusion:

I know that the game has had some fan pleasing phases and I feel like it's future needs to greatly steer clear of pleasing the masses or the loudest voices and stay true to its roots and FireFall's original slice of play and where it was going. We didn't petition for FireFall copy and pasted but we did for FireFall's successor, not a compilation of every successful videogame since that's kind of like how FireFall was. I also can see that maybe its being sought to reach too far for the slice of life and will just mention that FireFall exploded into play when it started in closed alpha tests of a box with only 4v4 pvp if I recall correctly, so maybe start simple and build like the journey it deserves into something grand. It would be really hard to build the Eifel tower from the top to the bottom. It needs a strong foundation to start not a big one. Then I feel like this game will be on its feet running.
We can learn many things from many games and some are done in a way with their own twist.
Em8er can be a game that combines the many aspects of various games out there or can be a game that is unique with certain selected elements!.

Pleasing everyone is almost impossible, I believe the filter system can bridge many to the game so that this can appeal to a wider group. This is not necessarily only visual and can be, animations, to the sounds as well because you could get a sound pack that could make your melee sound like a frying pan or what about a gun that makes a ploppy fart sound perhaps!

That means some like to keep there way of play immersed while others may like to play with more creative customization for fun. I would suggest that if a filter system is made that a preview can be shown of how others would see, hear you and what you can see and hear for yourself to make it easier.

Then i wonder if you can permit for an example a friend's customization to see and hear on your screen but the others are set e,g, as nsfw mode where you see and experience the standard for that setting.


Speaking of pvp this doesn't have to be only for shooty shooty chop chop chop, there could also be pvp racing and pvp sphere games etc If such pvp is available that could be on a different portal to another designated region or replicated in a holographic arena of some kind to invite.

Pve is the primary aim i like to think to be able to team up with others and more or less be successful with the team and getting treasures and lore bits etc etc. Also solo play because sometimes that's good especially if your playing at an odd time and if there is hardly any or they are busy, perhaps your pet or a bot can assist your adventure until someone is available to help.
 
Sep 9, 2016
114
202
43
CA,USA
#14
We can all posture and acct brave saying this game will be here soon. Or face the reality of there will be no game, we lost our investment. All the fluff and promises , then change this redo this all a way to get us to continue to wait and throw more money at nothing. Here we are at 8+ years and still no game. I applaud those that still want this game to happen and will wait. My waiting is over, it already feels bad enough I waited this long and spent what I did. All i see online now is people roasting Mark for taking advantage of us who backed this even when there has not been anything of progress being done .
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,901
10,172
113
Island of Tofu
#15
We can all posture and acct brave saying this game will be here soon. Or face the reality of there will be no game, we lost our investment. All the fluff and promises , then change this redo this all a way to get us to continue to wait and throw more money at nothing. Here we are at 8+ years and still no game. I applaud those that still want this game to happen and will wait. My waiting is over, it already feels bad enough I waited this long and spent what I did. All i see online now is people roasting Mark for taking advantage of us who backed this even when there has not been anything of progress being done .
Half the time i think i am talking to myself ! The other part there are some who might glance and pass by because of the lack of activity and content so far.

I am willing to wait, however the crossroad of 2025 nears and i'll decide then to end supporting and glance time to time of anything new.

There is too much poop news currently would be a shame to see this ending in the pile of poop with more.
I'll keep optimistic for now but i also have to be realistic of when the time arrives to decide to continue spending time, energy and support to this or something else more important that i can be happy about hmm

1732878524970.jpeg
decide wisely we got too much poop in life as it is!
 
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