Concearned about monetization

Sep 4, 2018
3
3
3
#1
I backed the game a while back because of Mark Kern but had written it off as a PvP session based game, which I don't hate but isn't really my thing. I just finally got around to looking into the details, and I like where it's really going a lot more. With that said, I have a huge concern over the monetization, particularly 'convenience' items. Without getting into a debate over semantics of 'P2W' and it's ever changing definition to not include whatever game is being defended, let's just say it's a matter of principle for me. I've heard rumors of F2P and other 'live service tm' games that supposedly do it right (warframe for example) and every time I've looked into them I've found the rumors to be disingenuous BS, likely propagated by PR teams and paid shills.

So here is my issue. Pay for convenience often translates into skipping gameplay in some form or another, whether it be an exp boost, fast travel, or things like inventory space, or some other minor gameplay affecting feature. The issue is that it creates a perverse incentive to hamper a user's experience in order to sell convenience, creating a problem in order to sell the solution. There will always be an issue of trust.

Part of the issue is that most players will take a hardline stance against ever using a cash shop (as a defense against modern manipulative practices, though most will never admit it or are even self-aware enough to realize it), so the players who do pay have to pick up slack for the ones who don't, causing prices to inflate beyond what is reasonable. This inevitably leads to whaling as a single player willing and able to blow thousands on a game without a second thought is of far greater value than dozens of players only willing and able to blow $5-10 here and there, and why not milk both? Monetization inevitably shifts to favor whales, because voting with your wallet works and the biggest wallet get the biggest vote. Games that sell gameplay affecting items inevitably head down this path, half out of necessity (most of the players being hardened freeloaders) and half out of opportunity (how long can anyone stick to their principles and ideals when whales are eager to spend ridiculous sums, practically begging for ways to spend more? It's free easy money, and reasons not to take it dry up over time).

I get that cosmetics generally don't sell anywhere near as well as gameplay affecting items, and keeping a game running needs continual revenue, but we need a more honest and fair way to go about it. The original Guild Wars more or less pioneered the concept of a 1 time payment to play an MMO and funded their first game on expansions, so there is that to consider, not as profitable but better for the game and the customers (the incentive is based on player enjoyment rather than frustration). Then there is the currently failing and much hated subscription model.

Everyone knows subscription models don't work outside of a few exceptions anymore but everyone also ignores the elephant in the room, the reason why, the price. $15 a month translates into a $60 game every 4 months, hell $10 still translates to two $60 games a year. But then look at all the streaming services getting by at around $5-8 a month entry level subscriptions and there's the sweetspot. Unfortunately the game has already promised not to do subscription so this is more or less out of the question.

On a side note, an optional sub for 'convenience' features (like the crafting material storage in ESO) is a bad idea because without substance no one will buy it and with substance there is still the same trust issues that exist with cash shop items of the same variety, the nagging thought in the back of your mind that the game is made more frustrating than it should be in order to sell the service.

Either way, for me gameplay affecting microtransactions are a deal breaker and I cannot in good conscience support the game further if that's the plan, as much as it pains me to say it.
 

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
82
179
33
California, CA
#2
I think we're all in agreement that P2W can only exist when someone wins against other players. Since Em8er will not have PvP the concern of P2W in the PvP category does not exist. On the other hand I have not seen a confirmation about PvE leaderboards. Surely if Em8er creates PvE leaderboards I would agree that PvE benefiting items would create a P2W scenario as people struggle to be #1...but I'm unsure how important PvE fame is to people.

Since Em8er is a purely PvE game I welcome monetization that does not pinch players. I do not expect Em8er to do what common f2p games do such as locking inventory space behind money walls or reducing resource gathering to a slug pace without booster packs. What I anticipate are craft speed boosters, craft exp gain boosters, miscellaneous items like additional health packs that players could craft without money. None of these items should have an impact to regular gameplay and would actually benefit players who do not have the time to play regularly. I do not expect Em8er to put up pay walls; Firefall did not have pay walls. Em8er has already said that much of their market will be cosmetics and if I'm not mistaken, when the game is successful they'll try crowd-funded expansions. All in all I do not foresee Em8er putting any pressure on players to spend money.

When done right monetization is near invisible to f2p players. The game should be fun, rewarding, and not feel like a grind to accomplish a goal. Monetization is there to provide players who can not afford the hours of play to instead invest real money to enjoy parts of the game where time otherwise restricts them from participating. For example a high school or college student may be able to put 10...20...+ Hours a week into a game and craft everything they need to do raids or whatever. On the other spectrum there are the players who work 40+ hours a week, have kids, hobbies, ect and can only put 4 hours a week. As the saying goes, "Time is money", and for people who don't have the time can spend money so they can spend more of their time participating in gameplay activities they want to spend their precious time doing. Allow players who don't have time to gather resources or craft, spend the money so they can spend their time enjoying the stuff other fortunate players spend hours of fun earning for free.
 
Last edited:

Maven

Kaiju Slayer
Max Kahuna
Jul 26, 2016
210
945
93
#3
A few things to note here:

1. Em-8ER will be Buy to Play.
2. Each expansion will be crowdfunded.
3. Monetization will be done via cosmetics.
4. PvE leaderboards are planned.

Grummz has mentioned conveniences in the past, but is yet to touch on what exactly these conveniences will be. That said, I feel it is far too early to be writing it off as being the traditional 'disingenious f2p monetization'.

Grummz has continually taken community opinion into consideration before implementing new systems/mechanics. And he has been more than willing to shelve systems that were not received with positivity across the board. A fine example of this is the 'Private Server' system that was discussed a while ago. While the reception wasn't completely negative, the concerns raised by the community were enough to convince him to set the plan aside for further refinement.

All through dev, Grummz has paid particular note to 'Community Reception' when deciding on what is to be done. Personally, I don't see that approach changing.

The issue with 'P2W' is that it is entirely subjective. I, as someone who works 50 odd hours a week, would be more than happy with conveniences that get me a boost on resource gain. In fact, something like that would be essential for me to keep pace with the general community, to be able to enjoy the same higher tier content they do. Can I choose to lag behind and do things at my own pace? Sure. But I choose to enjoy the game with the community. And yet this same resource booster would probably be 'broken' in the hands of someone who plays 50 hours a week. There's no two ways about it.

Monetization is not easy. Finding the perfect balance is impossible. At any given time, it will favor one side or the other. And rest assured, it is a battle developers can never win. There will be one or the other section of the community that complains about some aspect of monetization. The best the dev team can do is be open and honest about the systems implemented and ensure that they do not resort to underhanded tactics (commonly implemented in AAA games these days) in order to increase revenue.

I suggest you keep an eye on development and see how things progress before coming to a conclusion. I say this because the game is far too early in dev, and statements can be easily misconstrued/taken out of context. Speculative musings can easily be portrayed as certainities, when in the right hands. And, unfortunately, there are several individuals out there who are willing to spend time and effort in order to undermine the efforts towards the game. Such is the nature of the society that we live in.
 
Last edited:
Sep 4, 2018
3
3
3
#4
Seems there are some misconceptions of the term P2W, which isn't surprising as there has been a lot of effort to move the goalpost over the past several years (maybe decade?). To put it simply, it is anything that gives the player an in-game advantage or benefit. For example, buying a premium gun in a FPS arena shooter doesn't mean you will win, it's an advantage. What "win" really means in the context of P2W is accomplishing an in-game goal, whether that be leveling up, getting enough currency/resources for something you want to do, or simply knocking quests/tasks off of a list. Anything that helps you obtain a goal faster is P2W as it helps you "win" at whatever you are trying to do. It got the most flak in PvP games for obvious reasons, but it isn't the only context it exists in. It's also not the only example of egregious monetization, it simply has the strongest stigma, one that is now being applied to 'live service' because a rose by any other name.

However, if we want to avoid a debate over semantics and definitions, especially since something doesn't have to be P2W to cross the line, let's just use the new term and call it 'live service'. Regardless of what terms you used the concerns are still the same, especially the perverse incentive to make the game worse in order to monetize player frustration. Things like fast travel and inventory space won't fit most peoples definitions of P2W and yet you only need to look at the recent shitstorm with bethesda's fallout 76 to see it's still very much a problem.

P2W or not, 'convenience' creates a perverse incentive to inconvenience.
 
Likes: human#0427

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
82
179
33
California, CA
#5
I think I see what you're saying but I'm unsure.

1) concern that micro transactions incentivize the devs to make task rewards smaller to influences players to buy boosters

2) allowing players to buy boosters cheapens the success and prestige earned by non-booster players. That these boosted players are "cheating" through a fast lane.

If the above is correct I understand issue #1 that the devs could be "corrupted" with greed and make much of the game a slog. Perhaps I have rose-tinted glasses but Firefall could have done egregious monetization yet abstained. I do not foresee Em8er making any of their game mechanics purposefully painful to influence purchases.

As for #2 I can somewhat understand the position that spending money for a fast lane is like cheating; the player is making the game easier and has an advantage at achieving goals over other players. I currently can't get myself to fully agree with the concern. I will agree that allowing players to boost their damage with premium weapons or boosters is unfair (they are paying to win and perform better than other players). I will also concede that resource gathering boosters can be seen as unfair because that player is in essence spending money to craft a premium weapon (paying to spend less time risking loss therefore winning). My current stance however is leaning on Em8er's finances and my "sympathy" for players who work 40+ hour weeks. Em8er does have expenses and one way to pay for it other than cosmetics is to provide "part time" gamers with a trade; money for a more productive time-well-spent experience. Ideally only part-time players would use the service but all players have the right to avoid or use a service at their choice. It should not be a blight on any other player's experience or cheapen any player's gameplay when boosted players race to the finish. Ultimately if other players want to "cheat" then that is their choice but it will not make my journey less personally rewarding.

Em8er has the difficult task of keeping players around. Even more so keeping players that have no time to play video games from becoming bored or feeling like it will take too long to achieve the gameplay they are playing to reach.

As long as the microtransactions do not give players PvE advantages such as damage output beyond what other players can achieve or extra base building health beyond what other players can achieve then I do not truly believe people are paying to win. They are paying to reach the finish line faster but as long as they are not harming your experience they really are not winning and rather I suspect expediting the time they shelve the game because they ran out of things to do sooner.

I will admit that being in firefights with twinked players is annoying. It really feels like my character was just wasting their time while others cleaned up. During low level areas that scenario was rare however at "endgame" it's mostly expected. And yes I understand the sense of cheating that people can pay money to expedite endgame gear when the player has the time to "truly earn" the gear but...Em8er does have bills to pay. And I repeat that I do not expect Em8er to sell premium weapons. I will come across twinked characters now and then but it will not be because I was unable to earn those items.

I hope what I perceived in #1&2 was accurate and that my reasoning makes sense even if we don't agree. I am interested to hear you and others out
 
Last edited:

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
4,372
5,240
113
Island of Tofu
#6
After reading this i used to at one point have much free time to play games and sometimes it was easier to just pay to get that little booster to help.

With a job and more things to do on a day to day unless its the holiday, game time was reduced so much so that i am only playing a game or 2 until Em8er is complete.

However when i get the time to play would rather play, and have to admit it does help because even free players could earn boosters if you look at warframe. They have certain events where these boosters come available for short 2 days or so and usually they cost.

Not only that lets say you are a farmer and like to sell things you can sell stuff and make ingame currency and convert so perhaps you want to buy boosters with that or save it for a skin etc

Free is still giving them options they just have to put more time as opposed to someone who has less time. Then its always worth keeping an eye on events and special deals when they are made available because even free players could take advantage of that.

In my circumstances things can change and if work goes then pay goes so for now its ok. Then there is family commitments where a game is a game and real life is well important still i love games but if your not there to play it not really great but what can you do just have to make time somewhere in a busy life.

As this is a pve game the booster say can help others as i recall when in firefall was in a little group and the booster helped the free players too if i remember right they had a % increase of xp and resource gathering because one of us in the team had the booster but not as much as the player who has the booster i think or am i dreaming i am sure that was the case in firefall.

The game is more co-operative than a pvp game and helping others for all to reach a common goal so i dont think there is going to be a pay to win because its really pay to help all win that's probably how i see it :D
 
Sep 4, 2018
3
3
3
#7
Oh boy, the 'some people don't have free time' argument...

If you are paying to skip the gameplay, then why bother playing in the first place? The monster hunter devs said it best "We want people to have the experience that we've made for them rather than the option to skip the experience". Before that whole 'someone buying boosters cheapens my accomplishments' argument comes up again, I never said that (and don't have that kind of attitude anyway) nor is it relevant (no more than someone cheating or moding in a single player game, only the deranged care). The point is, are the devs making an experience players want to savor or skip?

If players have the option to 'pay to skip' then it is intentional, and an excruciating experience players want to skip is how the game is monetized. Simply put, it's a perverse incentive to make the game worse for the sake of money.

If you only have 2 hours a week to play, do you want to waste it on an excruciating experience you would rather pay to skip, or on an experience you enjoy?

Edit: Also, it's funny that warframe got brought up, because a lot of people keep saying 'it totaly does F2P right, a golden example of how a live service should be'. After all the 'muh warframe' arguments, I installed, got passed the tutorial, took a cursory look at what all you could pay for at that point then uninstalled. It's F2P garbage, and that anyone would hold it up as an example of 'F2P done right' only tells me that all F2P is garbage. The only thing it wasn't doing was lootboxes ffs...
 
Last edited:

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
82
179
33
California, CA
#8
If you are paying to skip the gameplay, then why bother playing in the first place? The monster hunter devs said it best "We want people to have the experience that we've made for them rather than the option to skip the experience". [...] The point is, are the devs making an experience players want to savor or skip?

[...]Simply put, it's a perverse incentive to make the game worse for the sake of money.
I know action speaks louder than words but the Em8er devs have repeatedly said their aim is to make every piece of gameplay wothwhile and fun. Obviously anyone could say these things and not follow through but Grummz has been saying it for forever; Firefall before the flip truly spent a lot of time listening to feedback and making corrections. I fail to see Grummz putting monetization above gameplay. I do not believe monetization will perverse gameplay.

As for making every part of the game good enough that people won't want to skip, my rebuttal is thus:

As in all games people have preferences and gravitate to the gameplay the enjoy most. Though people gravitate away from certain features it doesn't necessarily mean that feature is less fun; simply the player prefers other features. As much as I enjoyed Firefall's mining gameplay I preferred PvP and defending PvE zones from incursions. It's not that mining was less fun; I subjectively did not want to play it. Allowing me to expedite any tasks I subjectively find to be less enjoyable doesn't mean the devs did a bad job it just means I'm a choosey player and know what I want. (There's absolutely no way a World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2 could make a dungeon raid fun for me). Therefore with monetization the players who directly dislike specific gameplay can have the option of reducing the time they're required to spend in gameplay they subjectively dislike. Implementation of boosters does not directly correlate and show gameplay is being built to be objectively bad. I believe boosters more directly correlates to an agreement for allowing players to have more control over how they experience gameplay that they subjectively either love/hate/indifferent. On top of it all monetization gives an option for players to further support a buy-to-play game a means to pay upkeep costs.

Every game that runs free server service needs some manner of continuous funding. This again delves into the statement "it's impossible to make everyone happy". Obviously cosmetics are one option to pay for costs; subscription fees; boosters. The more options players have to support server costs the more likely the server will maintain steady income.

I understand the concern that monetization can insentivize the development of gameplay that is intentionally less enjoyable to push players to buy boosters. I fortunately do not foresee this to be Em8er's goal and perceive quite the opposite; Firefall's early history attests. I will not blame Em8er if they allow boosters and frankly I support whatever non perverse service that comes with the intention of keeping the servers running.

Lastly I still stand by the premise that people who do not have time to play games should have access to buying services that expedite gameplay. Building a game that is restrictive and requires long investments will deter a population of players that could otherwise pay for the upkeep of the server and also inject increased player population to the game world. I feel it's heavy handed to deny people enjoyment of a game when they're willing to invest money, real money, into a game everyone else conveniently has hours to devote. Not to say they should be given end game gear in exchange for money but for the greater good of the server's livespan, players should be able to exchange money for a subjectively more favorable investment of their time.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Pandagnome

Serevn

Firstclaimer
Feb 4, 2017
6
21
3
#9
Warframe is one of the most "P2W" games out there. No one cares cause it's a PvE game. And it's a very popular game. Helps that anything you can buy can be gotten naturally while playing and that platinum is easy to obtain for veteran players by selling stuff. It works cause veteran players benefit greatly from new players buying that stuff.

Most people only care about P2W if it can be utilized against them.
 
Likes: Pandagnome

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
4,372
5,240
113
Island of Tofu
#10
I dislike somethings in warframe such as:
- Rivens,
- mods with very low drop rate
- variation of the same guns with a different skin and different buffs
- Not enough story content unless some new update is to be made for that
- The trade chat can be frustrating

What i like:
- Gameplay is nice
- weapons work well
- maps are nice
- events are nice
- customizing frame, pilot, space ship

I still like the game but there are things i wish could change too, Em8er i feel can learn from the choices of what other companies have made and also from their previous firefall too.

So Em8er is in a good position since the game is not complete much things can change and be tweaked.
I have good hopes for this game and justified by the good discussions made here and its steady progress.
 
Likes: Markolis

Rawgi

Deepstriker
Sep 9, 2016
73
152
33
CA,USA
#11
Having played World of Tanks for a few years and I learned much about PTW there with people having premium armor, premium weapons, cloaking, premium tanks . Such a disadvantage for new players or those without an open checkbook. I am having a hard time with allowing those with little time to pay their way ahead, but understand the problem of needing a continuous method of keeping the game funded. I don;t see how they will keep everyone happy, or keep the fun rolling. I know many games suffer from sparse new content and charge for DLC. Em8er will have their work cut out addressing all these concerns. I also realize that its not my fault some people work 40-50+ hours a week and can't spend as much time as some of us, it's is really a choice just like how much time I would spend playing something I like since I retired, ( driving slow on purpose in the fast lane gets old after awhile and now people carry guns ). It's always something.
 

Nalessa

Commander
Jan 6, 2017
84
219
33
34
Belgium
#12
Oh boy, the 'some people don't have free time' argument...

If you are paying to skip the gameplay, then why bother playing in the first place?...
Well some games have different stages to enjoy.
Not everyone enjoys leveling in mmo's and want to get to the endgame as fast as possible, others love levelling and end up making multiple alts to level up.

Same in a game like this, some people might not really find the resource gathering very interesting, but think the high level gear gameplay is lots of fun.

Then ofcourse there's also people who just joined, but have friends at a high level, so to join them faster they can get a boost or something.

All in all, boosts aren't that big a deal honestly, if you don't like them, don't get them.

Maybe there could be an achievement or something for gearing a frame to max on your own with no boosts or something, to show you went through the effort or something.

Also keep in mind, in Em-8er, even as a lowly newbie, you can contribute to defending and keeping the tech level high in the zone no matter what, so you'll always be able to contribute, just like how in Faufau you could help defend Thumpdump or something from a chosen attack so you don't lose access to that part of the map, this isn't like those free to play games where boosts do lead to a rediculous unfair advantage in pvp setting like raid shadow legends, that's something Em-8er doesn't even have.
 

VRK9

Active Member
Sep 15, 2017
64
112
33
Portugal
#13
I think Mr. Grummz told some years ago that he don't want to put boosts (exp. or resources) in this game like Firefall had, unless he changed his mind.
He just wanted cosmetics and expansions to be buyable with real money.
 
Likes: Markolis

Rawgi

Deepstriker
Sep 9, 2016
73
152
33
CA,USA
#14
Well unless I am mistaken, all the new stuff I have seen lately is a subscription and almost everything has to be bought. That and it just doesn't seem right to let some players with the funds buy their way ahead. Next would be buy better weapons, buy a better frame, special tools to fight the enemy with, etc. For those of us that don't have large pockets we just get left behind if we can't pay premium. Red Beans anyone?
 
Jul 27, 2016
81
59
18
#16
Firefall beta player. Let me pitch in. I see people are concerned with big purchases called micro transactions. What I propose is smaller nano-transaction. The game would provide an A-la-carte subscription model.

* Access to a members-only bar inside each city. Non-members are stuck behind an invisible wall unless they are in a party with a member that has this subscription. Not p2w 0.20$/month.
* Access to fixed speed pads within non combat zones like cities. They open themselves up to members with this subscription to give them a 5s movement speed boost to get them from one part of a city to the other. The pads remain active for an additional 5s to allow non members to leach from the benefits, after that the pads close themselves. Kind of p2w but doesn't matter that much because it is only used in non combat zones and non members can benefit from it if they tag along with a member. 0.20$/month.
* Lower cool downs on cosmetic items. not p2w so long as they do not get in they way of other players during PvE/PvP 0.20$/month.
* loot magnet, pick up loot from farther away. Not p2w as long as the game does not bug out where a paying player can pick up an item behind an obstacle that a non-player can not duo to the item falling out of retain. This brings a lot of benefit to the team in a round robin setup where the picks are shared anyway. This is a huge conveniences when it comes to farming so it might affect game play in the long run but at least it is a lot more subtle then a flat +20% resource boost. 0.80$/month.
* ...

There are a lot of those small little things that you can monetize for cents a month each.

The purchase brings benefits directly to the paying players and indirectly to nearby non-paying players. This in itself has multiple perspectives:

1st. These subscriptions will be more accepted by the non-paying player base as they themselves indirectly benefit from someone-else's purchase.

2nd. Because non-paying players indirectly benefit from those purchases from time to time, it becomes a much more powerful marketing tool then promotional videos duo to the sporadic first hand experiences with said purchases. In other words, every paying-player becomes your sales person.

3rd. Because these benefits also affect non-payers that tag along, what you get is that you can buy peoples attention in the game this way. Non-paying players are more likely to tag along with with you because the grind becomes 0.01% more efficient, which is negligible, but it still grabs people attention. Busy people that pay for these small subscriptions have a more enjoyable time duo to more people spending time with them and helping them out and not because of Skinner-box-shortcuts. A small boost here or a small boost there will, in the grand scheme of things, not alter the difficulty curve. It adds a lot of convenience without the downsides of p2w because everyone is a winner.

4th. It is a less unethical way of milking whales and mentally vulnerable people. Whales and mentally vulnerable people spend thousands of dollars on p2w items in games to get attention. This is often exploited in the video game industry. But here, mentally vulnerable people will only spend a few dollars a month on boosts for attention. Whales on the other hand can have a crack at the cosmetics section of the store.

5th. The sharing of benefits strengthens the community. Instead of me becoming "harder, better, faster, stronger, then you" duo to a purchase, it becomes more of "we are in this together".

6th. Duo to the low price and a-la-care approach you have an extremely low barrier to entry for both the non-spending crowd and the undecided crowd. It can also act as a powerful up-sell on top of the monthly subscription for they paying crowd (if a subscription is to be mandated).

The important thing is that each subscription item benefit not only to the buyer but also indirectly to the non-buyers.

The most important thing is that the game mechanics of premium items/subscriptions engage both the paying and the non-paying players. There has to be some synergy or mechanic that links the two player bases together. Avoid having a purely one sided benefit, let the other side leach off a little bit.

Another thing that I would like to see is the ability to purchase cash currency with in game currency from other players (like the red-bean market in FF). It is an additional channel of revenue and circumvents similar black market sales. A non-paying player can spend the cash (revenue) of a paying player while the paying player can spend the resources the non-paying player has gathered. it is a win-win-win. everyone benefits.
 

Rawgi

Deepstriker
Sep 9, 2016
73
152
33
CA,USA
#17
Kind of sounds like if you want to be a leach or a crumb-catcher, you can do good or be a bought friend. Buying friends to hang around and get the left-overs, that is pushing me further away. Don't want to get the crumbs left by the people who are buying their way in the game, Ain't for me. This concept is sounding worse all the time and it is clear to see who those are that are defending this.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
4,372
5,240
113
Island of Tofu
#18
Kind of sounds like if you want to be a leach or a crumb-catcher, you can do good or be a bought friend
I know some people who never pay for a game and all of a sudden pay for something like skins and stuff that catches their eye.

It is difficult to please everyone, there is only so much a team can do making money in these ways but yet giving a taste to those who play free is good too maybe the very % boost is good for them with others but others maybe not so they would think it out-weighs the long time to attain resources etc.

An example in warframe there are items with super low drop rates but when investing in the time can get it. Some who do not have the time hate this but if it was easy to get them it loses its unique and rare position.

There was a way to speed up creating these bp with purchasing an ingame repair drone but they have removed it perhaps they wanted people to grind more for the parts and avoid skipping the mission shrugs.


What will people pay for?


-skins, different vehicles, packages and such [Does not affect game play more in visual and sounds]

- Subscription what do we get from it, small boost, does it help non-subscribers some what but not as much as subscribers. An example a subscriber earns 15% -boost a non subscriber would earn 2-3% its better than nothing.

It is a taste of how the boost is perhaps they could eventually pay when those special deal times appear hmm



- Em8er Market: In the market is where special deals can be announced by an A.I who announces on deals ingame and another section for packages and stuff.

If directly trading with the A.I you get a certain percentage off your purchases depending if its on offer or a special event.

Alternatively can free to trade with other players but this adds taxes and such so the A.I is nice in that respect as there is no tax and a good percentage off.


I hope whatever they do it gives all players to experience the game and enjoy it while earning to keep the game running for a super long time!!
 
Sep 9, 2016
73
152
33
CA,USA
#19
I want to make sure people don't think I am just being a grump or naysayer, quite the opposite. I want the game to be upfront with what we get, I don't mind grinding, but don't want the whole game to a drudge. Just expect it to be fair, I have played WOT and know how that is. There will always be some cheaters, I think most of us are dedicated to helping the game, not ourselves. I mean I played FireFall until you could not log in anymore and it was shut down for good, I wasn't going to give up. I also only bought one frame, the Arsenal, everything else I made or earned, ( makes me think of 35 ,Ha ha ). That first scooter was expensive, like 200000, but was nice once you got it, and it sure beat walking
 
Jul 27, 2016
81
59
18
#20
Kind of sounds like if you want to be a leach or a crumb-catcher, you can do good or be a bought friend. Buying friends to hang around and get the left-overs, that is pushing me further away. Don't want to get the crumbs left by the people who are buying their way in the game, Ain't for me. This concept is sounding worse all the time and it is clear to see who those are that are defending this.
Clearly if players end up being crumb-catcher and bought friends then that is wrong and not what I advocate for. The point is that the a-la-carte subscription options are themselves "cool" but do not disturb the player experience. It should not change the difficulty curve of the game or reduce time spent on a goal in any significant way.

Sure if subscribers get an exclusive boost then non-subscribers that tag along will constantly have to catch up. What I proposed is that non-subscribers get a 5s window to get the same boost so they are not constantly left behind. subscribers get their convenience without hurting non-subscribers.

The loot magnet is a double edged sword. If you are a subscriber in a party with the loot magnet and you gather up all the loot for yourself before your party members can, you will probably be kicked out (Or have the game disable it in this case to avoid abuse). However, if the loot is shared round-robin, nothing significant happens other then it being more convenient. Does it impact the game? Not really. The bottleneck is in the combat and whatever the mob drops anyway and mission items still have to be collected without the range boost.

I hate f2p p2w games because most of them are just Skinner-boxes. The kind of subscription options I have proposed provide great convince and hardly provide unfair benefit.

If player benefits are going to be introduces as an extra source of revenue for the company then what I propose is what I would think would be the upper limit of what can be introduced "without much" player push-back.

Ask yourself this, what is the lesser of the two evils: A +5% resource boost or a loot magnet. It's the loot magnet. Why? A flat +5% resource boost is kind of in your face with those numbers and makes you take out a spreadsheet to calculate if it is worth the purchase. It also messes up the game balance and makes it difficult for the devs to tweak the game economy. A loot magnet on the other hand is bottlenecked by whatever the mobs drop.

I want to make sure people don't think I am just being a grump or naysayer, quite the opposite.
Not at all. I played Firefall since closed beta but even back then it had p2w stuff from the start. Early backers that payed for the game got a bike that you could ride on while all the other poor plebs like me that joined the game though an invite had to walk. After a certain update, poor plebs could earn a bike through missions so if you played the game you could eventually reach parity with the backers. But then in another update, they introduces the Celestial Wings (a glider deployable in mid-air, gotten from loot-boxes) which allowed you to fly further then what all the other wings would allow you. You had to grind a lot to get them. With that said, surprisingly, even with these p2w-ish and grinding mechanics, the game was still very enjoyable. I don't think that Em8ER will be any worse.
 
Likes: Pandagnome