Chief Chat "CLAIM STAKES" VOD - 7/28/2022 - BIG REVEALS!

DHYohko

Member
Ark Liege
Nov 6, 2018
28
66
13
#41
Personal Claimstakes are the very thing that killed retail wows feeling of community (personal bases in WoD). This isn't good.

When a new player logs in they want to see the game alive, people flying around, mechs launching from the town grav-catapult, not be placed in there own instance with no one around.

Give every one a standard medium mech with a standard loadout and drop them into the world, let them get straight into the combat.

A deep crafting system is good but it will not draw in as many players as exciting combat and giant kaiju will.
 

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
325
647
93
sya.li
#42
Personal Claimstakes are the very thing that killed retail wows feeling of community (personal bases in WoD). This isn't good.
Garrisons is low-hanging fruit. I agree with that, however the community feeling of WoW was destroyed in pieces.

Notably was that for every expansion important and convenient services were migrated to a new capital city, rendering all others into ghost towns.

They even went out of their way to create a beautiful BC Blood Elf city, but because it was inconvenient and unnecessary it was always empty except for players forced to start there. The disadvantage of being a Blood Elf was that nobody else was around. It was an awful, lonely, feeling.


When a new player logs in they want to see the game alive, people flying around, mechs launching from the town grav-catapult, not be placed in there own instance with no one around.

Give every one a standard medium mech with a standard loadout and drop them into the world, let them get straight into the combat.

A deep crafting system is good but it will not draw in as many players as exciting combat and giant kaiju will.
I agreed with all of this, but I was given a new perspective.

By having more game expanded away from the raw combat, a broader audience can be attracted to the game. In turn, that broader audience will find themselves necessarily in the world and combat.

The recognized necessity is to shorten the amount of time it takes to get those players to the combat.

So it's giving a more rp/tutorial "claim" beginning to get more people into the game and therefore the combat. The trade-off is what the "x minutes to thumping" concept gives us. If the non-combat can be kept as sleep-walking for experienced players then we can get to our combat asap, but because it exists then the crafters etc. will eventually come play.

I personally still don't like it for a couple of reasons, and I'd have to see it to believe it, but I understand the philosophy now.
 

Mahdi

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
1,055
2,280
113
43
South Carolina, US
#43
Ok I know there was another CC that I haven't caught up with but wanted to jump in on this. Y'all know I white knight for Grummz, and I'm not ashamed of it. I just believe in him. But this is feature creep and is way off base from M3 goals. With that being said, I still like it a lot. These systems will cover a lot of styles gamers are going to enjoy and want. What I can't stand by is the timing. This aspect of the project needs to be a stretch goal as most, but I would rather see this as another milestone down the road.

To help the get back to the focus of what was to be the kickstarter content, I love the idea of starting in Home. If you wants basics on the game's setting and controls, keeping with lore (I hear you Sy!) everyone needs to be a greenhorn in the military. Later when dialogue can be introduced, have it start with the reason we are on Em-8ER for our race. Lead into the conflict on the surface and hint at unknown horrors and enemies. Give players the option of mech with, as people have said, basic load outs. Down to the surface and intro the combat. I agree with those that have talked about scaling challenge based on team sizes. Have the knee biters, have the Tsi-Hu, maybe a beastmode here and there. Wrap up with a Cat 1 kaiju.

Now on the surface and have captured ground, let people walk into the waters at their pace with early exploration. I have an idea leading from that early game play that people might string me up for, but I think it still appeals the wide range Grummz is looking for. So before you grab torches and pitch forks, finish reading. *cough cough* factions *cough* Not like the standard MMO approach. I lean heavily on an outlander (skins motivate this) lifestyle for this. People can either stick with the military (and later I would love to see corporations get into this with designs and tech) to keep climbing ranks. This has more supplied gear and/or currency along with strong world advancement through collective play. Maybe add a tax (small so point that pistol elsewhere) that can go into NPC defenses and early building. This opens tech, skins, gear rewards that stays with the theme based on staying the course. Also things like bonuses to armaments on frames and combat stats. Doing a claim can be earned after enough promotions or standing with the core government. You wait longer but can start the guns blazing faster.

I also love the idea of players signing up for their own adventure. After the initial starter campaign, one could op to sign with different corporations that want to be more free from a collective. The strike it big folks. Wild west setting comes in. A different starter bundle that has exploration, building and survival in mind is given. These are the players that can do what Grummz said two days ago. To follow it up more, is I see these players having different skins to character and frame become available that fits and outlander style. This option has bonuses to crafting, base building and thumping.

One founding issue I don't want to see people come from is the attempt to have everything. Yes people can switch between the two, but at a cost of rep and access to tech/designs. Find how you truly want to play and stick with it. If you want to wage war on the Tsi-Hu, stay with the military and have bonuses to combat and frames. Want to find the secrets of Em-8ER, have bonuses to exploration and building.
 
Oct 16, 2019
12
29
13
#45
Progressive claimstakes would be good. Because we don't want a lot of abandoned ones by new players who decide the game is not for them.

A temporary starting one might be the way to go. And bigger ones , or combining them for guilds.
Could look to No Man's Sky intro for this. The first crafting bit has you make a Portable Refiner to create the resources you need to repair your ship and get off planet.

It would be easy to do something similar, where your initial "claimstake" is temporary, and more of a very basic intro to the crafting system. Especially since you earlier mentioned prefabs would be available, just give players a crafting-lite tutorial, with a few basic objectives, using portable crafting stations. Once the tutorial is done, either have the player pack everything up manually, or have some sort of auto-save system to a blueprint, so they can use it later on their permanent claimstake.

The other benefit of this, players would get a much better idea of what the world is like before having to decide where they want a more permanent base to be. Particularly if some areas have variable rates of resources that can be gathered, picking where a permanent base is going to go will end up as relatively important decision - assuming that moving your claimstake later is anything more than a very trivial matter.

The recognized necessity is to shorten the amount of time it takes to get those players to the combat.

So it's giving a more rp/tutorial "claim" beginning to get more people into the game and therefore the combat. The trade-off is what the "x minutes to thumping" concept gives us. If the non-combat can be kept as sleep-walking for experienced players then we can get to our combat asap, but because it exists then the crafters etc. will eventually come play.

I personally still don't like it for a couple of reasons, and I'd have to see it to believe it, but I understand the philosophy now.
This is kind of my perspective on things, as well. I really, really enjoy base building games, I've put in multiple thousands of hours into dozens of them over the years. However, I honestly never envisioned Em8er to be that kind of game, up until Thursday's CC. While I think adding base building into the game could be a benefit, I stand by the idea in my original post that it shouldn't be the absolute first thing that players are thrown into.

While the crafting is going to be important, the main thing that drew me to the game has always been the Mechs vs Kaiju aspect. I want *those* to be the first things that I am introduced to in the game. Crafting would be a nice third aspect that will keep players in the game. The base building part seems like it might just end up as a tacked-on aspect, especially with as hard as it is to get a really good building system setup.

As much as the base building aspect might turn out super awesomely great - and I truly do hope it is - if I wanted to go play a game that was focused on that, I'd, y'know, go play one of the games that I enjoy that is heavily focused on that.
 

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
325
647
93
sya.li
#46
Could look to No Man's Sky intro for this. The first crafting bit has you make a Portable Refiner to create the resources you need to repair your ship and get off planet.
No Man's Sky's introduction gave me a terrible impression of the "game". Even after years it hasn't been satisfactorily improved.

Pseudo-survival/construction games that start off with a crippled character are just annoying. I know that "back in the day", games like World of Warcraft could get away with having people not mounted, but thankfully inconvenience is no longer the case in most games unless that's the point of the game.

Having said that, the idea of starting a low tech terrible forward operating base (we share) would be interesting because it would require significant effort to defend or resources to repair.
 

liandri

Omni Ace
Omni Ace
Jul 29, 2016
433
1,071
93
Zone of Bones, Australia
#48
Some questions would be:
- How do guilds/armies operate in this overworld? Does each have their own claim where each member can utilise their crafting equipment (like a Warframe Dojo) or is it less involved then that? Would guilds simply be a way for players to ally with others and quickly group up instead?
- Further, how would this work with the Houses of EM-8ER? Does each house control a certain portion of the map?

The initial start of the game concerns me. You start the game on Home. You don't have a THMPR, a dropship, any omniframes. You stake a claim on the world and go down to get some basic resources to make your Omniframe and your THMPR. You then take your stuff, go to the main world, get more resources, craft more, so on...
- I'd prefer to start in a rusty old medium omniframe with no armour and a basic weapon over being naked. If you're so squishy, you'd probably buy those over staking a piece of land.
- The other thing would be players who aren't interested in staking claims and crafting. While it sounds very mandatory given the crafting loop, some players might wish to forgo that and go straight into hunting Tsi-hu. With many players crafting, and presumably a trading system, why not let players choose and jump straight into the zone with the most basic of equipment? They can always purchase their gear later.

Some quick feedback:
- Selling base designs are iffy. I think it would be good to have a "licence fee" you pay to list each design to stop people from selling joke designs. This was the same thought I had for omniframe builds.
- Prefab templates available to all is good, for those that don't care/have the patience.
- The terraforming bubble is a great lore-friendly way to place down invisible walls. I'd like to see them floating in the sky so Kaiju don't step on them. The Tsi-hu directly assaulting this device somehow would make for a great invasion defence objective (thinking Skydock)
- "Find a couple of buddies, and go do group Thumping" Sounds good.
- The "main-world" base building doesn't sound too bad. Sounds more or less what is described in the Vision Book.
- Not sure what the monetisation with claimstakes will be. As long as it's free to stake a claim, it's 100 steps ahead of any crypto, web 3.0, virtual land non-game out there.
- Lower tier Kaiju going after your claim is great, as long as we don't have any damned timed-defence missions. If Preston Garvey pings me I swear--

Unpopular opinion, crafting specialization doesn't sound too bad if you can still trade with other players. I'd love to see the option to either be a jack of all trades, or to go hard in on one specific thing. With enough time and resources, perhaps you could master crafting overall and craft anything? The idea that you don't need to make a poor gun to make a good gun is a solid one.

Crafting all your stuff? No. Some elaboration on in-game trading would be good.

Overall, 6/10. If I could experience it, I might have a better opinion. The main negative here is forcing this as the start for the player. If claimstaking and this initial crafting bit is entirely skippable to jump straight into the action, I think the response will be better. Otherwise, this is like starting a new WoW character completely naked, to go copper mining for 30 minutes to make your starting gear.
 

Maven

Kaiju Slayer
Max Kahuna
Philanthropist
Jul 26, 2016
262
1,197
93
#49
Following up on my original post, I still do maintain that the whole private player zones are a terrible idea, in the sense that I feel it introduces segregation, for whatever period of time. Personally I do not enjoy it, and will do everything necessary to avoid interacting with the system.

Now, there has been a second session, post the original CC, where the system was further clarified. I would like to read a transcript or perhaps a medium post which will clearly explain the system, in addition to how it benefits the game.

Regarding implementation, I would rather there be an option. A tutorial seems to be a universally requested feature (always felt the original tutorial in Firefall did the job well enough, but R5, in their infinite wisdom, just absolutely had to rework it multiple times to the point of it becoming a jumbled, incoherent mess of ideas). A tutorial for Em-8ER could begin on HOMEbase, where, at the end of it, the player is given two choices:

1. Show them the map and give a brief explanation of claimstakes, including available claimstakes. Those players that wish to start from scratch, and build their own OF and weapons from the ground up, can choose this option. This is for players who enjoy crafting and the sense of accomplishment from building everything themselves, or those that get turned off by the immediate thrust into combat and rather take it slow.

2. Alternatively, players can choose a stock OF, stock weapons, and be thrown right into the main zone. There they may freely choose to hunt tsi-hu, participate in group thumping, craft gear or OFs using the crafting machines available in the zone. This works for players who rather get a feel of the core gameplay before settling down and exploring additional features.

This introduces the option for players to choose how they wish to play. It also avoids the pitfall of mandating systems and allows the team to cater to all subsets of players.

That said, I appreciate the fact that the claimstake system is being pushed back based on feedback.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,234
9,675
113
Island of Tofu
#50
1 is physicalized crafting and how to integrate work orders into that, which I tried somewhat. You just take the crate and simulate the process by running the crate through it instead of raw materials.

2 is publicizing the entire thing. Which is where the penalty for not doing the work in a timely manner comes from. If you take a public work order, then I think there needs to be a deterrent for failing to do it in a timely manner because someone is counting on you, you promised by taking the order, and no one else can take and turn in that order while you have it.

This system won't preclude you talking to a crafter directly and placing a personal work order as opposed to a public one; which is where your alterations seem to be going. But in that case, I'd probably make Shooterman go to Gunman's homestead and post the order on his board directly instead of remaining in the "Fighting World" and continuing to hunt. That way there's a tug between "I know Gunman can make this eventually and is going to log in in an hour or so." and "I want this ASAP. Someone please make it."
For number 1) could the process alter in the effects by things such as parametric recipes.

As an example if i was to cook something and change an ingredient to oil then in that process could create more heat and result in some flames.

In number 2) I see what you mean now.
I'd still like to see a Rep score for the crafter just so they can see how they are doing compared to the other crafters. No name would be mentioned instead it could show % of those in Upper tier crafting and those in the middle and those in the lower tier.

Think of it as the Reaper Crafter Standards of excellence, which all crafters would like to be at their best since they gain the best rep and perhaps nice things from npc?

Personal Claimstakes are the very thing that killed retail wows feeling of community (personal bases in WoD). This isn't good.
In the virtual world of second life remember that homes could be visited by anyone. Although some homes had security so you are not allowed inside unless the owner listed you on the access list.

For the public anyone could go around and see, the owner would know who knocked on the door.
Sometimes some public may request something such as helping to expand the house with a new upper level and the owner could refuse or accept.

There was a rent cost to staying in that area and if rent stopped then the option to downsize was given.
After that if you still couldn't pay you would go to shared homes where rent was distributed between a group.

Then there were shelters or free capsule homes those are heavily crowded areas and tend to be very laggy at times.

The other thing would be players who aren't interested in staking claims and crafting. While it sounds very mandatory given the crafting loop, some players might wish to forgo that and go straight into hunting Tsi-hu. With many players crafting, and presumably a trading system, why not let players choose and jump straight into the zone with the most basic of equipment? They can always purchase their gear later.
Option to do that is good yes

- Selling base designs are iffy. I think it would be good to have a "licence fee" you pay to list each design to stop people from selling joke designs. This was the same thought I had for omniframe builds.
Would this be deducted by the in-game currency ?
Once you have these license does it have a time frame or is it a life time?
What if Base designs had to be verified before it is available to be seen?

- I'd prefer to start in a rusty old medium omniframe with no armour and a basic weapon over being naked. If you're so squishy, you'd probably buy those over staking a piece of land.
What if you have the options of using your more advanced G-suit than the standard one you came in or even going for the old medium Mek.

This way you could experience for yourself what the idea of the G-suit's capabilities are and the Mek.
Mek's are going to be the best for survival sure, the G-suit mk II could give players a different challenge if they choose.


A tutorial for Em-8ER could begin on HOMEbase, where, at the end of it, the player is given two choices:

1. Show them the map and give a brief explanation of claimstakes, including available claimstakes. Those players that wish to start from scratch, and build their own OF and weapons from the ground up, can choose this option. This is for players who enjoy crafting and the sense of accomplishment from building everything themselves, or those that get turned off by the immediate thrust into combat and rather take it slow.

2. Alternatively, players can choose a stock OF, stock weapons, and be thrown right into the main zone. There they may freely choose to hunt tsi-hu, participate in group thumping, craft gear or OFs using the crafting machines available in the zone. This works for players who rather get a feel of the core gameplay before settling down and exploring additional features.
Unpopular opinion, crafting specialization doesn't sound too bad if you can still trade with other players. I'd love to see the option to either be a jack of all trades, or to go hard in on one specific thing. With enough time and resources, perhaps you could master crafting overall and craft anything? The idea that you don't need to make a poor gun to make a good gun is a solid one.
What if there was a third option where you could be a jack of all trades and master of none if undecided?
 

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
176
488
63
California, CA
#51
My feelings about claim stakes resonate with the first page of responses quite a bit (haven't had time to look father). I ponder if claim stakes was not presented well. The CC really emphasized claim stakes and made hardly a mention that Em8er was still a community city/zone building game. CC gets so caught up on new news that it fails to tie into how the original vision remains the same. Maybe CC needs reiterate its main vision of community city investment during each CC and how it ties into any new content while at the same time not breaking the premise which is community investment city/hubs.

I share the same concerns or confusion about where Em8er appears to be headed, heavy crafting from minute zero.
Firefall was a quick pick a character, get in, play, and make a difference with the community as a whole. Characters at the start of the game felt strong, helpful, effective, useful. But this claim stake CC saying players will be starting with nothing, rubs me the wrong way. Within 5 minutes of Em8er I want to be done with picking a character and find myself thrust out defending towers or searching for a thump location with people. I've played too many tutorials in shooters; I just want past all that slog. I tried to play Conan Exiles and grew to really dislike the crafting from rags to riches.

I understand players can't be given everything at the start. They need a goal and the game needs longevity. But I don't want to be a nobody at the start.

Claim stakes seems to detract from the "all for one" premise that FF had and what I anticipate (anticipated) Em8er to be. I doubt Em8er is doing a full 180 and it may be a full misunderstanding between the CC and players. We want to defend copa, thump dump, sunken harbor. We want to invest mined resources into zones, but this claim stake plan brings individualism into a community based game.

I see claim stakes as a spin on player housing. It's a neat idea, I gave it a 7/10 during the CC but as I've thought about it...I'm likely never going to use it and I don't see why Em8er is trying to implement this feature before Em8er has what made FF great; thumping, shooting, invasions...and I guess crafting but I'm not much into that. Player housing shouldn't be at the start of the game. I know it's not mandatory but I don't see it as necessary.

I think long term the idea is great for select peoples (lone wolves, guilds, groups, ect). Being able to craft your own structures and sharing them is cool. The resource sink makes sense. Player dome invasions could be added and S.O.S signals can call other players in to defend your stuff. But really, how many people will do that and for how long? It's not why I loved FF. Are claim stakes really going to be what Em8er lives on?

Cool technology factor: 7/10
FF successor factor: 3/10
 
Oct 16, 2019
12
29
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#52
No Man's Sky's introduction gave me a terrible impression of the "game". Even after years it hasn't been satisfactorily improved.

Pseudo-survival/construction games that start off with a crippled character are just annoying. I know that "back in the day", games like World of Warcraft could get away with having people not mounted, but thankfully inconvenience is no longer the case in most games unless that's the point of the game.

Having said that, the idea of starting a low tech terrible forward operating base (we share) would be interesting because it would require significant effort to defend or resources to repair.
I fully agree that the NMS intro still isn't good; was talking only specifically about the portable crafting station idea from it, instead of having a full-on permanent claimstake.

I don't quite agree with your second point, but it's more of a 50% thing. In most games, it absolutely does make sense to start players off with nothing, or a very limited set of equipment. While more advanced players will tend to be fine regardless of how the game starts, it can be overwhelming for people completely new to the genre. There is usually a good balance where you start with very little, but everything important is given to you very quickly through a quick but comprehensive tutorial phase - which should, after your first character, be able to be skipped on alts.

I'd also probably agree with your third point. A smaller shared base would likely be better - and more realistic - for Em8er's setting. Having read some posts on the lore, claimstakes do seem lore-friendly, but they don't seem like they would be the very first thing we would be doing.
 
Likes: Shanie

Wyntyr

Omni Ace
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
6,335
11,584
113
Florida
#53
Since omni-frames, weapons, and abilities will be perpetual once created those items will only incur repair costs. IMO the massive ongoing resource sink for Em.8ER would and should be the base and vehicle building components. As those are built, destroyed, built, destroyed, etc. in the fight against the Tsi-Hu and Kaiju of Em.8ER. Throw in a watch tower or two and terraforming stations/platforms out in the zone(s) and you've got plenty to sink resources into. If you get paid per kill, per resource donation, per crafted item, per sale on market, per resource transport, etc. then allow a player to use that currency, or their own resources, for repairs, open up the crafting tree(s), and buy from the market any other items/resources you wish/need. Keeps the game fairly simple but you still get rewarded for each activity and if you don't care to craft you don't have to. Perhaps a player going thru the claim stake crafting system gets benefits others will not such as less currency spent to open the crafting tree(s), a boost to item stats, a slight lowering of resources needed per item/vehicle, etc. at various points thru that process because that player has put in time to that system that most will not. Just a bit of thinking on the subject as I know that Grummz is looking to have various loops of game play depending on player style and/or reasons for purchasing the game itself. If you can broaden the player base a bit you may get a larger KS boost which definitely would help Crixa being a full on gaming company at least to create and maintain Em.8ER.
 
Jul 27, 2016
146
295
63
Massachusetts
#55
Firefall's core gameplay was simple. Get in, shoot, get out. It did not demand too much of the player. It did not have convoluted gameplay loops and systems that required anything from the player. it was all about having fun from the outset. And as a spiritual successor, I would expect Em-8er to subscribe to those basic tenets as well
This.

If Em8er is not this i won't play. ✌️
 
Likes: Wyntyr
Feb 10, 2020
25
26
13
#56
For number 1) could the process alter in the effects by things such as parametric recipes.

As an example if i was to cook something and change an ingredient to oil then in that process could create more heat and result in some flames.
It depends on how deep they go into the crafting system. I was playing a game called Vintage Story, which is essentially a harder core Minecraft. Basically, you could use wood or coal, or coke to fuel a fire. Wood got up to a certain temp, which was good for cooking, but coal burned hotter and was better for smelting metal in crucibles and burning the crap out of your food...And then there was coke.

I was specifically talking about something like.. Making a MkII Autocannon is going to cost X resources. And maybe there's a widget or slider that you can pull on stats.
Damage <|---------> 0% Cost: + 0 Damagite
Firing Rate <-|--------> +20% Cost: + 100 Bullet-Speedium
Reload Speed <|---------> 0% Cost: + 0 Reloadium
Accuracy <|---------> 0% Cost: + 0 Glasses
Ammunition [None] [Corrosive] [Armor-Piercing] [Explosive] + Corrosive Cost: + 1000 Acidium

So Shooterman wanted a gun that has better fire rate and corrosive ammo. This alters the recipe to cost Bullet-Speedium and Acidium resources or something. This is all moot if they decide to do it RNG-Style and go, "Well... you crafted the MkII Autocannon and we're going to roll stats. Hope you enjoy the outcome." which is fine too.

I'd still like to see a Rep score for the crafter just so they can see how they are doing compared to the other crafters.
It could have a leaderboard for crafters where its like:
JIM HAS COMPLETED 1000 / 1000 Workboard Orders in time with an average of 15 minutes per.
Jane has completed 999 / 1000 Workboard Orders in time with an average of 20 minutes per.

But, if you do the public order board, you wouldn't really pick who does it.. Just someone who thinks they have the time and want to do it will take it do it. its meant to be a set-and-forget kinda thing.
 

DHYohko

Member
Ark Liege
Nov 6, 2018
28
66
13
#57
What i'm seeing is that most people agree that being able to get shooting within 10-15 minutes of logging in for the first time basically mandatory. We want new players to feel what the core gameplay is, crafting and other systems should come after that once the player knows if he likes the combat or not.
 

Partha

Deepstriker
Jul 5, 2018
25
81
13
Fredericton, Canada.
#58
When a new player logs in they want to see the game alive, people flying around, mechs launching from the town grav-catapult, not be placed in there own instance with no one around.

Give every one a standard medium mech with a standard loadout and drop them into the world, let them get straight into the combat
Agreed.
 

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
325
647
93
sya.li
#59
Firefall was a quick pick a character, get in, play, and make a difference with the community as a whole. Characters at the start of the game felt strong, helpful, effective, useful.
I won't comment on the rest of your post, but I'd like to address two things here.

Firefall had internal metrics which revealed that half of potential players didn't get past the login screen. The lesson was that that quick-pick doesn't work for some significant number of players. I'm personally among those who just want to get into the game and that character creation is nonsense that I want to be able to delay until I want a break. Some balance needs to be considered between bringing more players without being too much of a nuisance to people like me.

Grummz said that Firefall's characters did not feel strong because it took more than a clip to kill something. "The hero factor" (a phrase from the WoW dev days) is something Ember will address (at least for it's early areas or disposable troops).
 

Partha

Deepstriker
Jul 5, 2018
25
81
13
Fredericton, Canada.
#60
One of the things that really brought appeal to my group of players in FF was that there was something for each of us.
Thirteen of us played the game, well, religiously...lol

There were crafters like myself who really enjoyed making specialty parts to sell on the market.
There were hard-core thumpers who sold raw mats on the market.
Others were combat thrill seekers, always looking for the next big pew-pew thrill...
A few were questers, they really liked the instanced stories, although they felt there wasn't enough of them.

Point is. How do we help Grummz get that balance?
What suggestions can we offer to make the game appealing to more than just the old FF fans?
What Gameplay and mechanics can we ALL agree upon that will open EM8ER up to make it a vibrant community so we can all enjoy it?

I think we can all agree we want this game to not just get off the ground... we want it to be stellar.

So, Grummz. What do you need from us?