Chief Chat "CLAIM STAKES 2" VOD - 8/05/2022 (Builds v1.3.1 and v1.3.2)

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
303
580
93
sya.li
#21
Just make sure that the subscription personal base does not give any advantages, even conveniences or even if available by grinding, otherwise it's pay to win.
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT
May 25, 2020
4
15
3
UK
#22
i was gona write a big long post but aeri summed it up much better than i could so,

TLDR: almost everyones concerns from the previous thread were put to bed after your chief chat where you clarified the role of claim stakes so now making them paywalled feels a bit weird

however i was very put off by your notion that anyone who disagreed with the original idea couldnt also disagree with it being behind a paywall, it seemed like you were just trying to curb criticism and make us sound like hypocrites, which doesnt make feedback feel welcome :(
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT

punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
98
145
33
Sweden
#23
Even better. don't put this part of the game under the subscription umbrella.
Nobody wants their stuff deleted, especially not paid stuff only because you needed a break from the game. Perhaps someone loses their job and can't afford a subscription, are they to be punished for not being able to pay and have their claim locked out?

If I buy a game, I pay for it in full, I expect to receive the entire game in its full, not just parts of it.
Ashes of Creation has this thing where you and your guild can claim entire towns, but at least that model is justified because their entire game is put under the subscription umbrella, not just town-claims.

Like I said earlier, I'm all for claims, it's content and I love both the thought and idea of it, but not if I have to pay monthly, not if I'm punished by having my stuff deleted because I need a break from the game. I expect to have what I paid for regardless of how long I'm taking my break, because no other game deletes my stuff, no other game makes me feel forced to return, that's something I do on regular basis when I'm in the mood, on my own free will.

I still have my Hideout in Path of Exile after being on my 1-year break...
I still have all my paid and earned items and cosmetics in Planetside 2 after my 2-year break, and last time I rejoined they even switched publisher/developer but nothing was lost...
I still have my characters and all their items in Aion even after my 3-year break, and that's even on a private server but a service they offer non the less.
 
Likes: Pandagnome

Maven

Kaiju Slayer
Max Kahuna
Philanthropist
Jul 26, 2016
260
1,190
93
#24
So, another week, another discussion about claimstakes.

Crafting happens in the main area, with public refining stations: No complaints there.

Claimstakes to be part of a subscription: This is the big one. It's already kicked off endless arguments on discord. I can understand the need for some level of moderation to be introduced on the feature, to prevent dead zones that persist and bog down the servers.

But, the question is whether a subscription is the way to go about enacting that moderation. Payment-gated content has been a sore spot for a long enough time that players are often instantly turned off, no matter how minor that content may be. This isn't an argument about how claimstakes are essential and should be made available to everyone. But perhaps there is a better way of implementing the feature without a subscription, yet avoid it being a drain on server resources.
 
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punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
98
145
33
Sweden
#25
Since Grummz joined chat on Discord and asked where my support was to defend his original idea about claims, I'll defend his idea now (better late than never).
At the time, I was tired and worn out from discussions on Discord defending Grummz's original idea and ended up on forum only to shorten my input cuz I felt I had given the topic enough attention already, summing it up into "test first, complain later".

People don't understand things they haven't experienced, and thus can not comprehend the vision he shared with us because we have no references. I for one can not name an MMORPG where people's creations can be seen openly as explained during the first VOD. I'm sure there's at least one game that already has a similar thing going on but what will be presented in Em8er will be different either way, because it's probably not copy-pasted.

Personally I think the original idea was better than putting an entire part of the game under a subscription paywall. I think selling cosmetics to the claim is a better alternative and can probably provide more sales. I for one would rather buy some cosmetics and know they're still there when I return to the game at a later date than having stuff and/or possibly location removed.

I understand the dynamic of it, real estate is required for new players to earn a chance of obtaining a spit of land, I'd want that too. I don't want to feel like I've joined a missed opportunity because I was too late. That just wouldn't fly, it's a step into elitism.
On the other hand, this could be as innovative as Thumping was back in Firefall and I'd love to give it a test run. But I will not support an idea where a part of the game is being locked to people with more money.

What I want from Grummz is to plow through the critics, and go back to the original idea, which makes me come back to my first and only comment in that VOD introducing claims....
"Test first, Complain later", and that quote is directed towards to community, not Grummz.

We're a loud minority in here, 30k+ registered users in forum, 3k users online on Discord, yet only a handful of people are actually active in the discussions.
Literally, there was like 5 people on Discord making a Fuzz about it, and how many people were complaining about it on forum?
Let me put it this way.... If a member is silent about a topic, does that mean he's unhappy? I think the silent members is just passive and wants something to play, meanwhile we have a loud minority making complaints which appears to have actual impact on development, which to me is a bad sign cuz we signed up for a game by Grummz, not a game by Discord members. And, in this instance I think Discord members took a turn for the worse.

Grummz ideas are best until proven otherwise, and non of us can prove him wrong at this point in time. Thus I see no reason to further discuss this with anyone until we have our test runs.
Cheer up Grummz, make your game as envisioned!
 

joshua

Forerunner
Jul 28, 2016
2
5
3
#26
found a bug where i did an afterburner deep strike then after it was off cooldown i go to use afterburner again and deepstrike goes on cooldown once its done with cooldown i cant use ether afterburner or deepstrike and getting out of my mech blowing it up and ordering a new one lets me use the afterburner deepstrike combo but then it repeats with the bug
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT

punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
98
145
33
Sweden
#27
Bugs listed in here are not limited to the time of my finds, they could've been introduced in earlier builds. These were tested on the v1.3.2 build.



Old Bugs, Lost And Found:

Characters are twitching when gliding, only happened when more players were online but not while I was alone on the test server. Server is taking a hit causing twitching?

Clicking LMB to fire the Assault Rifle too fast and ending up holding the button down, sometimes stops the gun from firing, as if the fast button mashing jams the weapon and stops working.

While in the login screen and mouse is hovering over one of the fields while typing, mouse pointer gets distorted into something that doesn't look like a mouse pointer.

WheelMenu feels unresponsive and clunky, a tweak to its behavior is needed., I find myself in situations i'm dragging the mouse across the mouse mat multiple times just to advance 3 options up.

While gliding, the character inside the frame is tilting forward in an unnatural state, basically when gliding forwards the head is pointing straight down with face looking backwards.

Colliding with any surface on the side of the character makes the character drop and cancel upward thrust (holding space stops working).

Assault Rifle damage and range is unbalanced in contrast to size of both guns and world size. Max damage at point blank does 50, max range does 5 and in my brain you shouldn't have to be at shotgun range with an AR.

Main Menu UI still needs a rework, mouse sensitivity is in most dire need of a re-work.

Assault Rife ammo count design in 1st person mode needs a rework, put that counter onto the gun itself instead of taking up screen real estate blocking my view. 3rd person ammo counter is fine and useful.

Sound is not centered on camera, making sounds from character footsteps and gunfire unbalanced to my ears.

Contrast has issues, reflected light from surfaces such as the character are too bright, and dark areas are too dark. Perhaps add Contrast and Brightness options?

Deepstriking at terrain with an angle makes the character slide on impact instead of making a crater, perhaps slides should be limited only to touchdown while gliding?

When making the :p emote in chat, the emote still turns into ":tongue stuck out:".




Newly Found Bugs:

Render distance of effects are incredible, I can see the effects of another Thumper encounter from 4300 meters away, an option for effect distance would be nice to increase performance.

Spawning in a new frame makes the Assault Rifle counter show while holstered.

The Assault Rifle counter doesn't show from the front, it disappears from view if not viewed from the front of the gun.

Spawning in a new frame sometimes doesn't work, don't know if the cause is something in the terrain or the player facing empty air.

Ping on the score board (TAB Menu) is not consistent with the "Player Ping" just below the score board, they update individually at different rates.

Server seems twitchy when many players are online, sudden rubber banding and various twitches occurs. Not while being the only one online tho.

Firing the Plasma Cannon makes the energy bar flash what was consumed before it shows correct energy left.

Clicking the "Destroy Frame" with your mouse while selected doesn't do anything, calling it back in works fine though.

Jumping with character while out of the frame feels bad, and it looks like the character is performing an imaginary double-jump without actual double-jump.

Re-entering the frame, tooltip says "Press E To Use", should say "Hold E To Use", tho I'm personally not a fan of the whole "hold baah to do this thing", just let me in when I click it and be done.

Attempting Deepstrikes too fast while standing on the ground puts the frame into a hovering T-Pose.

If a character is placed ontop of another character, the player below can not jump or get out of entered Deepstrike holes.

Placing a character ontop of another character allows the player below to perform infinite terrain slides, also works on flat ground, possibly uphill too.

Character is having the sprites from terrain sliding reflect on its legs, creating a glossy effect that looks bad.

Character proportions is in dire need of a character editor. Legs are too long, thigh gap is too wide, shoulders are too tight together, boobs not round enough, lack of boob physics.



(Deepstrikes this time deserves its own section)
What Actions Renders Skills Unusable:


Attempting to perform a Deepstrike while in the Spawn Container.
Attempting to perform a Deepstrike while gliding.
Performing a Deepstrike in the same crater as your previous Deepstrike.
Performing a Deepstrike while in the effects of thrust boost (Q).


Relogging, or destroying your frame and calling it back again restores the skill usage.
When this condition is triggered, jetboost-thrust (Q) is also rendered unusable.
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Ark Liege
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
52
129
33
#28
MODELS
I am a big fan of the new human models, the scale feels great up against the other models in the demo. The navel is within perfect proportion. Other than stating the things that obviously need updating such as animations and the addition of customization. It will be great to see how they are fine-tuned. #Chad #Stacey

It would be cool if the male could look a bit more war-rugged in the facial features, but I'm sure that'll be within the scope of customization.

Maybe change the name of this forum post to CC "Human Models" instead of "Claim-Stakes"?


Bugs

- I ran up to a stationary Tsi-hu as the human-male, and that Tsi-hu was launched away from me a very long distance and also seems to mess with their pathing. Haven't been able to replicate it.

- The Tsi-hu don't path properly if they spawn on a gradient.

- Sometimes the Tsi-hu's health bar can reach 0 before they die, and they'll run about with 0 health.

- Human model lifts the thumper's leg up off the ground.

- When the human model glitches through the ground, can't respawn because the human model can't die yet.

- When jetting left, trying to speed-jet right will make you speed jet left.

- The frame's thrusters don't work when you try using them up against another frame.

- [First person] Shadows don't cast properly off the players frame model.

- [First-person] Shooting at the sun, sometimes causes it to vanish.

- [First-person] Switching weapons, the guns flash.

- Sometimes the abilities were not working altogether, destroying my frame seemed to fix the problem.

- The mouse sensitivity option in the settings has been giving me problems since it was first introduced, can it be simplified?

- Sliding leaves a brown-trail on the ground, walking through that trail can cause the trail texture to overlap the frame. The same sliding texture also glitches through to the underside of the base roof/ceiling.

- The base in demo has multiple texture glitches where you can see through to the outside.


Suggestions

- Would be cool if when the frame gets destroyed, the parts which fall to the ground stay a little longer and can be kicked about. Or even better, allow the human models to pick up the broken parts like they're rugby balls and run off with them until they despawn!
xD But might cause lag so...


- Don't de-spawn the Tsi-hu after the thumping event finishes, let us finish them off.

- Bring back the Tsi-hu patrols but make them more sparse, so we can bug test them.

- Let human models stack like frames can



Thanks, [Lightelarious] for helping me find some of these bugs!
 
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FCM

Deepscanner
Oct 18, 2018
6
16
3
24
France
#30
Grummz ideas are best until proven otherwise, and non of us can prove him wrong at this point in time. Thus I see no reason to further discuss this with anyone until we have our test runs.
Cheer up Grummz, make your game as envisioned!
isnt the point of feedback just to have an idea of the point of views of the people you ask ?

The game ultimately is Grummz's game, he and he alone knows what he want to do
while im probably part of that loud minority, i dont want opinions to be dominant over an idea that sprouted aiming towards something in particular, here the something being the game that Grummz envisionned and how it would operate

i dont think it must feel great to see what you're happy/proud to be working on being completely changed because people dont like it

for exemple, if i draw something, i definitely wont like people who tell me they dont like something in my drawing that i feel is very important to its integrity
but i can also think about it and try to figure out why they think its so bad, think about if it would hurt the craft or not, if yes dont apply, if not, consider doing something, or not, whatever



opinions can be adressed, ignored, or discussed, they dont need to direct something, but they can help getting a wider field of view, which is why negative opinions are still worth putting out here
and it only came to my attention now, that this can be easily forgotten, and a wave of negative feedback can be oppressive

if grummz think what we thought is bad, then so be it
the game should, initially at least, find its players, instead of the players defining the game


my very first interaction on the forum was last claimstake discussion when i saw feedback was wanted after a livestream in my email, which i thought doesnt happen often and i should try to help out if i can

im just worried that im part of the problem and i want to apologise as such
i dont mean to order people around based off what i believe
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,055
9,519
113
Island of Tofu
#31
I'm going to throw in my own spicy opinion, call me crazy!

I think it would be cooler if instead of claiming land on the planet of Ember, it would be more fitting if we had personalized apartments on H.O.M.E. (The giant orbital space station that hovers above Ember, where we may start.)

H.O.M.E is supposed to be the out-of-frame social hub of the game, give us an apartment there and leave the planet for the other cool stuff.

There could be several zones on H.O.M.E to pick apartments from, purchased with in-game currency. We could decorate those apartments and invite friends over to chill out!
Imagine introduced to your own capsule apartment it may be small but you have what you need with areas inside that can unfold and fold back.
1659833731132.jpeg
Capsules do look tidy too!

Perhaps next is an alternative option on the go somewhere with a good scenery could there be mobile homes as an example:

Caravans and hover homes that connect to sea anchor points. Sure it could be more riskier to lose your home if your not careful, yet you do get more freedom!

1659836305200.jpeg

1659836488652.jpeg


However, I don't mind the notion that there would be rent of in-game resources to pay, which could be circumvented with the real money subscription. The rent must be easily affordable even for semi-active players to get my personal approval, though. Don't turn people who don't have excess money into grind-slaves just so they can enjoy the features of the game they already bought in the first place. It should be a token rent that would, sooner or later, clear long-since-abandoned plots from the map when inactive players' resources run out, but it should never make a player who hasn't dropped the game feel as if they *must* farm now just to keep what they have.

Also, if you add this "rent" of in-game resources, call it "maintenance" or "upkeep". We're supposed to *own* that plot of land
Larger homes / Guild forts
1659836870100.jpeg

With such bigger spaces this could be set for subscription method or payment of ingame resources.
Ideal to support your team with a subscription share option that let you and several others help in the cost on a big base e.g.

Cost of base per month $7.95 and usual subscription $7.95 usually for 1 = $15.9


Subscription Share
Player 1 = $1.32 (Guild lead)
Player 2 = $1.32 (supporter)
Player 3 = $1.32 (supporter)
Player 4 = $1.32 (supporter)
Player 5 = $1.32 (Supporter)
Player 6 = $1.32 (supporter)

Subscription method get more custom skins and styling options compared to non-paid purely aesthetics.

The only issue is if a player or all stops paying then they won't be able to use their custom skin and styling option earned. Can still continue to use their base supported with ingame resources method.

Once payment resumes the custom skins and styling options would be available to access.
 
Likes: ChAzZ_NuT

Djepetto

Deepscanner
Oct 1, 2016
62
116
33
#32
Here is the VOD for the latest CC.
https://www.twitch.tv/grummz_em8er/video/1553216301

NEW build for backers to try out, you can get out of your frames and walk around as either the male or female pilots!

A new idea for how claimstakes can work is explained within
Simply put-What if if all required crafting machines are already findable in the world in player bases, so any player who wants to just get into the action quickly absolutely can.
In which case, claimstakes become fully options. Only use them if you want to, to build optional stuff in your own area. In this version Claimstakes would be part of a subscription model.

Let us know your thoughts below!
If there is an update to the demo every week(next 4) from now like stated in the stream I will upgrade my package to FirstClaimer. Em8er take my mfn' money! I love everything I've been seeing lately. I just can't contain my excitement. It's loooooong overdue. And I'll leave it at that!
 
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punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
98
145
33
Sweden
#33
Having an apartment or a glorified player-space (home) on the mothership up in space is as generic as it gets, while I'm not against this idea I'm also not approving it.
Grummz's original idea is a gamechanger, one of those things if done right can change the industry and how homes in games are viewed in the future, this is good and doesn't mean they can't just as easily move it to an instanced zone later. Let Grummz's idea play out so we can test it, stop wasting bandwidth complaining about stuff we know nothing about.
 

Lightelarious

Base Commander
Feb 28, 2019
5
11
3
#34
Regarding the current demo, most of my bug findings and stuff are in '#Demo Chat' in discord and reported by chazz. But i wanted to have a bit of Suggestions regarding the current gameplay stuff.

1. While the recoil is kind of fine when playing third view, it could use a recoil reduction in first person view because tsihu head is kidna hard to hit and the only ''good'' damage is headshot.

2. Regarind the models, the female model looks kind of ok, but the male models head looks really off. Mabe makeing more masculine aswell or older to fit the body?

3. Plasma weapon. While it seems kind of ok when useing it a bit more, it does need a faster recharge or some way to get ammo back. Ammo runs out fast, fire rate is low and the visual explosion is kinda eeh.

4. Gliding. Currently gliding is mostly for movement. What if you could shoto or use abilitys while flying?
I could totally seemyself doing ''bomging runs'' while fyling, using plasma cannon or some sort of fast firing weapon. also would add some skill to the gliding part because, you are harder to hit, and you can learn how to abuse it ways so you are a efficent killer. Also, can cosplay as a amkeshift A-10 thunderbolt.

5. When the omniframe is destroyed, cuurently, you die with it, but what if you could survive it? Would also make it somewhat more survivalish so you have a reason for haveing more frames lying about and not make you do ''suicide runs'' into the enemy cause you respawn anyways.

6. For fixing the tsi-hu pathing and stuff. When doing thumping high in the mountain, or low in the crater, the tsi-hu spawn like they do, same distance as the crystal pillars somewhere away from the thumper and get stuck on the mountains cause they cant climb like we cant. Mabe give tsi-hu the ability to somehow have really good climbing skills or a bit of a sliding to have them be able to reach the actual thumper when thumping in odd spaces?

7. The sliding currently is a bit slow. While gliding at really high speeds, tapping the ground makes the slide be really short and feel like you are stuck in glue or smthing, atleast comparing to the speeds you can go and trying to make a really long slide. But when just running and tapping slide button and jump at the same time you can go even up the hill with moderatly good speed, as long as you can get to ''sprinting'' speed. Mabe have sliding be stopped when pressing ''walking backwards'' as a break system, so some can have time of their life sliding and still have a way to stop mach 2 speeds for those that dont want to slide.

8. Regarding the Missile barrage ability (not sure how its called). While it is really cool and satisfying to use the missile barrage to lock onto stuff to blow them up, it is a bit meh when trying to kill them. It doesnt kill tsi-hu with one missile, so you have to get a 2nd missile to lock on the target to kill them, or shoot their heads a couble time from a distance witch is a bit impossible in my opinion. To counter act that meh'ness, is there a way to mabe make the locking a bit faster or have the ability to lock on to them again with a second sweep? The latter also adds somewhat a ''skill'' with the knowhow on the abilitys. Mabe a bit of both helps.

9. Overthrust. While it is a cool thing to use to get to places, it doesnt have any way to be canceled. It is a great tool to hit the skybox, but trying to get up the hill when your own thrusters are empty it is bit of a overkill. Either have it be cancelable or make it a bit shorter with multi use with smaller Cooldown.

10. Thrusters themself. While going in one direction (up) it is very long lasting, but doing anything else it feels a bit slow or the thrusters get empty fast, i don't know whats the deal. But mabe haveing them move in directions other than up a bit faster so they are a bit more viable or regen a bit while falling or useing the glider? not sure how it would work in the future to balance stuff, but probably would make a nice Quality of life change.

11. Moving around by itself is fine, but as the human, its a bit janky or wierd and slow. Yes i am aware its just been thrown in there for publick to see, but i just want to mention that yeah, haveing them be in the same world as frames on the movement part feels a bit unplayable, from jumping hights to walking from place to place. Tho its fun to throw tsi-hu away from the thumping area by walking into them heh... also makes them slide even further when they finally touch the ground. :p

12. Mabe a few new weapons to try? not sure how hard they are to add in or make, but would be nice to have a few more weapons in to pick from. If it is a thing that isnt that hard to make and implement, then can we have like a sniper type weapon or a shotgun? would make it a bit more refreshing to play over a while :)

13. Not sure how far the new map stuff is, but can there be more buildings other than the spawn house/room and the dropship showcase pad? Would add something to look and think what the future could hold. Mostly because the map at the moment is kind of empty and lonely + i havent really noticed much on how the buildings themself are going to look like. Mabe people have some suggestions on how the houses and stuff look like?

Welp, thats what i feel like could be added or atealst thoughed of when changeing stuff in the future for the demo's. Yea yea i know its still ''just a demo'', but its nice to wishes and ideas for the future no? If any case, atleast i have thrown my ideas out there and hopefully see something come out of this, thinking material if anything.

P.S: Love the work so far! keep it up!

P.S.S: All the hud stuff could use some cooldowns/delay's so they cant be spammed or get yourself stuck with.

Hope the best!
Your local clone army.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,055
9,519
113
Island of Tofu
#35
Let Grummz's idea play out so we can test it, stop wasting bandwidth complaining about stuff we know nothing about.
The complaints or constructive criticism gives another view in comparison to other views. Together this can help build a bigger picture of ideas / possibilities.

I am sure Grummz has his own vision and with the community and Team crixa brainstorming out loud it is great even if it may get super spicy mount kaiju volcanic chaos.... ok maybe not that HOT

A red firey kaiju pops out of nowhere in twitch or appears in forum when it gets extra SPICY

Just like in mortal kombat :D
 

Sy

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
303
580
93
sya.li
#36
4. Gliding. Currently gliding is mostly for movement. What if you could shoto or use abilitys while flying?
This was possible for Firefall and I would expect it for Ember in some form or other. Maybe for all guns and abilities or maybe it would be restricted to certain types of medium/light guns or abilities.


5. When the omniframe is destroyed, cuurently, you die with it, but what if you could survive it? Would also make it somewhat more survivalish so you have a reason for haveing more frames lying about and not make you do ''suicide runs'' into the enemy cause you respawn anyways.
In-game, on "death" the pilot will be ejected and will run around in "pilot mode". What that mode means and any gameplay it may have has not been discussed.
 
Feb 10, 2020
17
14
3
#37
The complaints or constructive criticism gives another view in comparison to other views. Together this can help build a bigger picture of ideas / possibilities.
We must have received neither, because it killed the idea in Grummz own words on Disco.
Desynchronized communications are terrible for picture building, especially if we don't have the authorities helping do that.

As an aside, listening to S3RL - Genre Police on loop is entertaining while on the forums.

I've been poking around the forums and people seem to think the game should be a 1:1 of Firefall only. They skirt around the word Successor like a plague while calling it up when it suits them.

Anything to do with resource gathering is just points on a scoreboard, which is what the resources felt like to me when I played. There wasn't a whole lot to do with them so every single one felt worthless once you crafted that one gun you wanted. The only thing it felt like there was to do in Firefall was just shoot things and defend a base, which sure.. Is fun. For a while.

I was in the demo chat and someone tried listing the fun things of Firefall. In essence the list was: Combat, combat, combat, combat, combat...
It made me think about my time in game and yeah...
That was about it. Its probably why I didn't stick around past a couple months and did not subsequently return.

The crafting was interesting due to how they used resourced, but felt.. Eh. One monolithic machine that did everything at the press of a button. The UI was pretty, but i didn't really engage it all that often.

At least in FFXIV, I could craft things I wanted and could build, and craft, outfits around. Its funny how FFXIV is more memorable in the crafting department. Not necessarily fun, I just mean memorable. I remember planning outfits to fit what I crafted or crafting pieces that fit holes in my outfits.

I recall crafting things, but i couldn't tell you anything special I was excited about getting. It was really just Gun Ii going to Gun III or BLUE Gun III if i was feeling froggy. Nothing changed about my armor or looks ever from what I recall.

There was never any connection. It was just shoot shoot shoot and make thing that shoots better. I had no reason to come back -outside- of: i want to shoot things and maybe colored loot. And if i wanted to do that there were better options than Firefall.

While writing this, I called my room-mate and we had a chat about FFXIV and what made it memorable and fun. He let me know they are adding an island sanctuary, which is supposedly a personal area for you that you can play with and personalize and it's incredibly positively received. And that got all of us excited to play again.

The longevity of FXIV in my circle is the fact that you feel like a part of the world. You aren't JUST a vessel of destruction. You are, and can be... But its not all there is. Your character lives there. They have ties to everything, whether you choose to engage those things or not and it's all viable. There's stuff to do in game that isn't just kill mobs. Hell, even PSO2 had the casino and player homes for crafting. My best memories of PSO2 ARE the casino and house. Once a week we'd go blow a bunch of in game currency just playing the stupid shooter game for casino bucks.

If you are tired of grinding you can go race. You can play casino games. Sightsee. Fish. Make fashionable clothes. Cook. Make weapons and armor.

It's easy to boil things down to a comical stupidity, and I see it all around these forums.

I even did it above. Firefall = pew pew. It's army mans and thats it. If the only hook to your world is pew pew, then pew pew is the only thing you will keep.

Some people don't I get it. But reading these forums, it seems like everything that takes you away from shooty shooty bang bang will be vehemently protested and summarily killed. It seems like these forums would find someone who hasn't left-clicked while a crosshair is on a bad guy in the last 60 consecutive seconds and kick them out of the game themselves.

It's hard to engage with this idea because of that because if you give certain people the limits of their imagination, this is what you get. Even if a claimstake is required to craft.. Why would they stop you from using a buddy's house to craft your Gun III? Your guildhouse? Someone will engage, even if you don't.

And they deserve a reward for it.
They put in the time and resources.
They took the time to hunt for resources and built it.
They should receive a resource tax.

If you use public facilities there should be a HIGHER tax AND some of those resources should be lost to "Maintenance" because its more convenient than going to someone's place. The rest go into the base pool and hopefully there's a use for those specific resources.

There is value, even if you willingly don't perceive it.
I can't even understand how people can read "Pioneering Wild West! We're gonna get our own home planet boys!" and not go "Oh, okay, lots of assembly required.".

And then demand everything be given to you so you can fire the stock peashooter at the nearest bad guy like this is going to be just some futuristic lobby-based milsim and not an MMO with other things to do.

Such as... pioneering.
 

Thorp

Omni Ace
Jul 27, 2016
168
469
63
California, CA
#38
I'm not against claim stakes being behind a subscription; mostly for the sake of server funding. I don't plan on doing the claim stake thing since it's not my gaming preference and more-so with a subscription lock (as it stands now).

I ponder if the vision of claim stakes would benefit from a modification. It is reasonable to place players on a designated grid because it does away with territory quarreling and maybe immersion issues. Claim stakes can keep the grid layout and I would suggest to allow players to establish bases or small strongholds throughout the commonly used landscape.

Similar to not being able to drop thumpers nearby other thumpers, use a similar rule that players can't establish a base cornerstone location within X walking units. (I emphasize walking units because a base could be nearby if a tunnel was drilled through a mountain but the walking distance around the mountain is immense.) Players can set up small outposts with crafting/repair stations, railroad stations, front line defenses. And the odds of people actually interacting, defending, upgrading, and donating, to these small strongholds would be possible unlike claim stakes which right now are locked in bubbles.

Imagine exploring a zone outside a community hub and coming across a small stronghold that exploited the voxel terrain to bury itself into the cliffside or a bunker door tucked behind a rock. There's a small repair station, supply shop, an underground rail system that transports to the other side of the mountain. Ammo and other supplies within the shop are of limited quantity because it's all crafted by players and delivered there. And of course, there's always a risk of Tsi-hu patrols attacking and destroying it all. It would be up to the players and coordination to maintain the strongholds that provide value to the community at large. Maybe these strongholds would outclass the major dev built hubs. The hubs may even be established on the front line, much closer to the action than any major city.

Alternatively, if Em8er is going to stick to grid-only claim stakes, a non-subscription option could be instanced land with limitations to building footage or cost.

At least let players play with the building system like a Lego session without needing to sub or resource investment.

One thing about claim stakes that comes to mind is location. Location location location. Beachside, mountainside, riverside, X-side, ect. Personally, if I was to dive into claim stakes I would rather get the topography I want rather than subscribing and getting not.

All in all, I feel there's something wrong with claim stakes being in a bubble that other players will likely never visit. It just seems so detached from the seriousness of what's happening all over Em8er. But maybe that's how it has to be.

########### Other Topic from CC ###########

I feel like Heavy frames should be bigger than the Thumper. It just seems weird that you build a big warfare dedicated machine and the mining mek is bigger. The mining mek does need to be bigger than the Medium. But perhaps the size of the Heavy is based on the stats? ...I'm unsure if there will be issues with land traversal and combat awareness if the Heavy is larger than the Thumper currently is...that's huge.
 
Last edited:

197mmcannon#1804

New Member
Ark Liege
Sep 23, 2021
1
0
1
#39
As someone who rated the claimstaking feature a 9/10 when it was initially proposed in Discord, and someone who does not have money to throw around, I strongly oppose the idea of exclusively tying claimstakes to real money subscriptions.

One aspect of the vision for Em-8er that is very important and dear to me is Grummz' intention to make just about everything earnable in-game - that means skins, better versions of those skins, mounts and so on. Tying housing to a monthly fee without a reasonably affordable in-game rental as an alternative would, frankly, disgust me.

However, I don't mind the notion that there would be rent of in-game resources to pay, which could be circumvented with the real money subscription. The rent must be easily affordable even for semi-active players to get my personal approval, though. Don't turn people who don't have excess money into grind-slaves just so they can enjoy the features of the game they already bought in the first place. It should be a token rent that would, sooner or later, clear long-since-abandoned plots from the map when inactive players' resources run out, but it should never make a player who hasn't dropped the game feel as if they *must* farm now just to keep what they have.

Also, if you add this "rent" of in-game resources, call it "maintenance" or "upkeep". We're supposed to *own* that plot of land, right? I'm not paying "rent" for my own land! Get off my lawn!
I'm a bit of a boomer so this mindset confuses me. I promise I'm not trying to be derogatory or confrontational but how would you propose a game company pays it's bills?

"In my day" you had to buy a game or your couldn't play it. Shareware came around, and you could play the free version of the game over and over again if you wanted but if you wanted the rest of the game, you had to pay for it.

Now everything is free. And gamers expect everything to be free. I acknowledge that microtransactions have practily ruined the gaming world but if a game designer is looking for something that can be enticing enough for someone to pay the monthly fee, but also not give an "advantage" then this feature seems like it would be the perfect candidate for that.
 
Oct 27, 2020
6
15
3
#40
I'm a bit of a boomer so this mindset confuses me. I promise I'm not trying to be derogatory or confrontational but how would you propose a game company pays it's bills?

"In my day" you had to buy a game or your couldn't play it. Shareware came around, and you could play the free version of the game over and over again if you wanted but if you wanted the rest of the game, you had to pay for it.

Now everything is free. And gamers expect everything to be free. I acknowledge that microtransactions have practily ruined the gaming world but if a game designer is looking for something that can be enticing enough for someone to pay the monthly fee, but also not give an "advantage" then this feature seems like it would be the perfect candidate for that.
Em-8er is not a free to play game. You have to buy the game in order to play it, isn't that enough for starters? Then you have the various skins for pilots, mechs, dropships and skin rarity upgrades to buy for real money as an option on top, and the subscription as an option on top. I think that's more than enough ways to earn money without putting actual content behind a paywall.