[Brainstorm] Tutorial, Lore, and You!

truekillerstar#4280

Ark Liege
Ark Liege
May 8, 2020
10
22
3
Ohio, USA
#1
Today, there was a good discussion on integration between lore and tutorials. So I wanted to make this post to help brainstorm what our ideal hook is like.

Based off of Zingo's points, I came up with this:

Scene: On H.O.M.E, post GATE travel
1) Let's say it will take several years to travel to Em-8er, we get put into cryostasis but while we are under, we can do simulation training (learn the objective of terraforming em-8er and do a simple thumping run)
2) After the simulation, we wake up in Em-8ers orbit and in order to prep for land fall, we do some side quests to learn the in and outs of H.O.M.E
3) Once done, we get in a pod/dropship and land on Em-8er
4) We retrieve a basic light frame and begin the core loop

The first down side that comes to mind is that Grummz likes to teach in world so a simulation would go against that idea, but that's why it's a brainstorm.

Please let me know what you guys think and what your launching off point is like
 
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Lightelarious

Base Commander
Feb 28, 2019
5
11
3
#2
Well, i dont fully know the story and stuff or how to introduce story with tutorial, but if the main game loop is to be introduced on the planet as a tutorial, then mabe some basics stuff can be indeed teached on H.O.M.E, like how to walk shoot and that stuff. So in a way that complete new players that dont know games can also get some what hang of it then my idea would be like this:

1) Simulation on the complete basics. Moveing, shooting and mabe some interface stuff.
Basically something that can be skipped if you allready know the jist of things. AKA Basics of basics.

2) Introduction of situation so you somewhat know what the hell is going on and why you are going ther. I dunno how it can be done, but to my understanding, you have to go to the planet to get material so that you can get your first frame. Not sure why we dont have frames with us allready, mabe weight reduction or something like that, i don't know.

3) When you are finally on the planet, you are given the ''new and improved'' gameplay loop that the game is unique for that you cant really skip.

4) Post main game loop aka tutorial. You got your frame, you know how core gameplay works kind of, and you can start exploreing the possibilitys of what your techtree can do and the terraformings and stuff.

5) Basically free to do what you want. Occasionally remind that you would like to contribute resources and stuff to the ''company'' or what not so the world progresses.

Don't know what others think but this is how i see things. Atleast how i imagine it could turn out to be.
Ofc there are a lot of ways how to do it and they probably have theyr own ways to implement stuff, just my vision on stuff. :p

Edit: i guess simulation for on land stuff might also work in a way, so you can go and get whatever frame on the planet when you finally are allowed there. Staysis idea also seems interesting, but then again. If D-gate goes from 1 place to a random location pretty much instantly, then there really is no need for it?
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
76
172
33
#3
Today, there was a good discussion on integration between lore and tutorials. So I wanted to make this post to help brainstorm what our ideal hook is like.

Based off of Zingo's points, I came up with this:

Scene: On H.O.M.E, post GATE travel
1) Let's say it will take several years to travel to Em-8er, we get put into cryostasis but while we are under, we can do simulation training (learn the objective of terraforming em-8er and do a simple thumping run)
2) After the simulation, we wake up in Em-8ers orbit and in order to prep for land fall, we do some side quests to learn the in and outs of H.O.M.E
3) Once done, we get in a pod/dropship and land on Em-8er
4) We retrieve a basic light frame and begin the core loop

The first down side that comes to mind is that Grummz likes to teach in world so a simulation would go against that idea, but that's why it's a brainstorm.

Please let me know what you guys think and what your launching off point is like
I love the idea of cryostasis, but I can't find anything in the lore which really details stasis because the Gatestriders rely on D-Gates to get from A to B.

Other than that, I think a short impactful start to the game would be great.
 

punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
106
156
43
Sweden
#4
Just to fill in... The original idea spawned out of watching this one...


The question was, should an MMO have an ending? Of course, what they're mostly talking about is the shutdown of a game but I changed it into the story instead of the entire game. And so I thought, well yes at some point the story should end but which part of the story? And that's when I thought about games that lets you roam the world once the story has been completed... Why not have the story act as the prologue at H.O.M.E. where people find a common goal, to learn to play the game and its various systems via completing the quests or the arching into the MMO-space down on the planet where the war is happening. So players can learn how the game works.

Saint's Row 4 did it well, giving you a story of how an alien race blew up earth and thus why you play in a simulation, an open world that reminds everyone of GTA but your actual body is on a ship in space, kind of like how they enter the Matrix in The Matrix movies.

As JoshStrifeHayes says when playing Warframe:
"This is a great hidden tutorial, it's not just a simple obstacle course, it's a journey with a start and a reason". Tho, Warframe already jinxed obstacle course with hidden tutorials and reason, so I thought hey, why not make the tutorial into a story, even more immersive than Warframe's start.

This would naturally go under Nr.2 on that list of yours, learning the ins and outs of H.O.M.E, but not just home, but also crafting, frames, the world, why there's a war, who we are and why we do what we do, get to know a couple NPC's, learn navigation and movement, all in the same area as everyone else while following a main quest, and have that done with once you're ready for the real action.


I've already went too far, shouldn't have come here. I'll be leaving anyway since I got work tomorrow.
Cheers, hope you get some spin on this thread Killer.
 
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Likes: Pandagnome
Jul 3, 2022
20
22
3
#5
My idea its not much diference between someone post above

1 - Login
2 - Create Char....(big boobs waifu rigth?)
3 - Cinematic with Passenger ship Land/Dock in HOME(aka Orbital Station or Mothership)
4 - Here going get 4 option in screen
4.a - I wish you guide me (step by step with videos , flash ico , and all mobiles thign you can imagine)
4.b - I wish little guidance ( Hints in form small text box after x+5sec)
4.c - I wish tranning but no guidance (No Hints , No Ui flash but fall back to 4.b after x+30s)
4.d - I Know everything i need (Who cares about?)

Dont need say one pick you hands and guide you , other give you hints , and other let you figure out

After that another small cinematic you sit in VR chair

5 - Now you show each concept , and make sure he learned by doing
Example thump
if he select 4.A , its going show in some big screen video step by step...... and after that he need do for yourself
if he select 4.B , No video is show , however still need archive scan / deploy thump... but its give small hints like "First you need use scanhammer" written in UI or even Wall
and if he Select 4.C Just rigth top corner quest "Deploy Thump" can employ if he take more 1min or x time that average time to perform task , game swap back to 4.B to avoid player frustation

And go on with all steps , from basic required to get license , to advanced to people want learn about all gimmics before land

leave this 2 video about , first one its about one guy that enjoy story telling mmorpg and other its game designer with more 10yr doing so

This is double edge sword.... and can be use as metric to player retetion or make they quit fast
Another big deal its nothing you do there is permanent , with this is mind you can show advanced gameplay and exoframes , mix between Tuturial/Tranning Area since we talk about permanent loss like omniframes , and at last i expect game be hard enough , saying again whole premise of game fall if become "walk in park"
 
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truekillerstar#4280

Ark Liege
Ark Liege
May 8, 2020
10
22
3
Ohio, USA
#6
I love the idea of cryostasis, but I can't find anything in the lore which really details stasis because the Gatestriders rely on D-Gates to get from A to B.

Other than that, I think a short impactful start to the game would be great.
True, I was trying to come up with a reason, so it may be more reasonable for the simulation to occur during the gate ride. Like 1 hour in the mind is 1 minute in real time.
 

ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
76
172
33
#7
Just to fill in... The original idea spawned out of watching this one...


The question was, should an MMO have an ending? Of course, what they're mostly talking about is the shutdown of a game but I changed it into the story instead of the entire game. And so I thought, well yes at some point the story should end but which part of the story? And that's when I thought about games that lets you roam the world once the story has been completed... Why not have the story act as the prologue at H.O.M.E. where people find a common goal, to learn to play the game and its various systems via completing the quests or the arching into the MMO-space down on the planet where the war is happening. So players can learn how the game works.

Saint's Row 4 did it well, giving you a story of how an alien race blew up earth and thus why you play in a simulation, an open world that reminds everyone of GTA but your actual body is on a ship in space, kind of like how they enter the Matrix in The Matrix movies.

As JoshStrifeHayes says when playing Warframe:
"This is a great hidden tutorial, it's not just a simple obstacle course, it's a journey with a start and a reason". Tho, Warframe already jinxed obstacle course with hidden tutorials and reason, so I thought hey, why not make the tutorial into a story, even more immersive than Warframe's start.

This would naturally go under Nr.2 on that list of yours, learning the ins and outs of H.O.M.E, but not just home, but also crafting, frames, the world, why there's a war, who we are and why we do what we do, get to know a couple NPC's, learn navigation and movement, all in the same area as everyone else while following a main quest, and have that done with once you're ready for the real action.


I've already went too far, shouldn't have come here. I'll be leaving anyway since I got work tomorrow.
Cheers, hope you get some spin on this thread Killer.
I disagree that a story in an mmo game about progression should end, otherwise what will we have to look forwards to?

I want to have something to look forwards too as we progress in the world.
 
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Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
7,139
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113
Island of Tofu
#8
I disagree that a story in an mmo game about progression should end, otherwise what will we have to look forwards to?

I want to have something to look forwards too as we progress in the world.
Perhaps there are things that continue and other things that end example:

- The ever evolving battle continues but it goes further into other planets leading to perhaps introduction to multi planetry warfare or for some multi planetry defense figuring the secrets to unlock just a small section of the gates secrets to other places.

- Lets say as an example the end of one of the planet resulted in big Kaboom we cant get it back and some of the npc's survived and others did not make it they traveled through the gates to another planet.
Sadly all did not make it and the npc survivors some changed, hatred filled their souls they weren't bad but it was too much and they blame the Reapers for not helping resulting in a dark path for some.

I like the idea of reincarnation from the life we had to something different. Perhaps an npc was once a female and reborn to a male or vice versa even sent into the machines that we know as our Mek A.I's. Some never chose this way to live, and others gladly accepted their fate... a life living in another body in another form still with a purpose to do something a second chance given and to make it count!

The end is it just merely an illusion of just one alternate reality where we have yet to see others ?
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
76
172
33
#9
Perhaps there are things that continue and other things that end example:

- The ever evolving battle continues but it goes further into other planets leading to perhaps introduction to multi planetry warfare or for some multi planetry defense figuring the secrets to unlock just a small section of the gates secrets to other places.

- Lets say as an example the end of one of the planet resulted in big Kaboom we cant get it back and some of the npc's survived and others did not make it they traveled through the gates to another planet.
Sadly all did not make it and the npc survivors some changed, hatred filled their souls they weren't bad but it was too much and they blame the Reapers for not helping resulting in a dark path for some.

I like the idea of reincarnation from the life we had to something different. Perhaps an npc was once a female and reborn to a male or vice versa even sent into the machines that we know as our Mek A.I's. Some never chose this way to live, and others gladly accepted their fate... a life living in another body in another form still with a purpose to do something a second chance given and to make it count!

The end is it just merely an illusion of just one alternate reality where we have yet to see others ?
But either way, the story would still be progressing right? Looking at it from a mechanical standpoint, I'd like to imagine there's always something on the horizon.

For example, I would not see much point in the story ending before getting onto the planet. It'd be cool if as we progressed on the world, so too did the story.
 
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truekillerstar#4280

Ark Liege
Ark Liege
May 8, 2020
10
22
3
Ohio, USA
#10
Perhaps there are things that continue and other things that end example:

- The ever evolving battle continues but it goes further into other planets leading to perhaps introduction to multi planetry warfare or for some multi planetry defense figuring the secrets to unlock just a small section of the gates secrets to other places.

- Lets say as an example the end of one of the planet resulted in big Kaboom we cant get it back and some of the npc's survived and others did not make it they traveled through the gates to another planet.
Sadly all did not make it and the npc survivors some changed, hatred filled their souls they weren't bad but it was too much and they blame the Reapers for not helping resulting in a dark path for some.

I like the idea of reincarnation from the life we had to something different. Perhaps an npc was once a female and reborn to a male or vice versa even sent into the machines that we know as our Mek A.I's. Some never chose this way to live, and others gladly accepted their fate... a life living in another body in another form still with a purpose to do something a second chance given and to make it count!

The end is it just merely an illusion of just one alternate reality where we have yet to see others ?
This reminds me of SOMA and would be a good side plot.

These are all wonderful points; especially the Extra Credits video, Pilot Apparence, and crafting. Though, I feel like character customization will happen before the intro.

So, it seems to the goals are:
1) Minimal Text
2) In-World (No instances)
3) Skippable
4) HOME
5) Topics: Basic, Thumping, and Crafting

So, I think a possible script could be:

Scene - Barracks within H.O.M.E.; Post Gate Ride
- The door to the barracks opens; one of the gatestrider admins approaches you and says "Wake up Gatestrider, you're planet bound. Head down to the Landing Pods across the station" (could display a keybinding toast message)
- The player walks through the door through a single hallway. A worker yells that planet bound Gatestriders can take a psycho simulation as a refresher before going down planetside. (could display a toast message)

If chosen, it could be like a pocket dimension with other people with a thumper against a few waves of test crash dummy like humans.

- One of the "Quests" in H.O.M.E could be to make something small like first aid supplies. For example, you could be told to get supplies from the quarter master and he tells you to make your own ammunition.

-Then, while dropping the gatestrider admin could mention the goal is build and increase quality of life (world tier). Then, when you load, you get your personal thumper and start from there with your AI explaining atosmpheric conditions and suggested next actions.

Of course, this is just an outline so it may seem kind of jittery.
 
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Aug 14, 2016
901
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#11
I can't remember what game this is from. But they used the idea of licenses to teach players. After all, before you can legally do things like drive a car or something you need to be tested and get a license. And in real life jobs you have to be certified before you are allowed to anything that could get you and/or others hurt. Even in the military they use certifications and credentials as way to pick people for different roles and/or missions.

So the different tutorials in that game was all done as if you was being tested to get a licenses for something or certified to be able to do something. After all, safety first. Plus we need to know that you can perform well on this mission. Failure is not an option. So we only picked with the right certifications and credentials to do this mission.
 
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punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
106
156
43
Sweden
#12
I disagree that a story in an mmo game about progression should end, otherwise what will we have to look forwards to?

I want to have something to look forwards too as we progress in the world.
Bosses and other content, it's not like Minecraft, Terraria or similar popular games has a story but everyone knows the ender dragon and moon lord means the final boss is dead... Killing the ender dragon and moon lord doesn't mean the game is over, the game is over when you decide it is. Planetside 2 for the longest time didn't have a story either, it has one now but it's barely presented, tho it fared well without one.

If Em8er has a story I figured it's best to present it to the players in a good and useful way, instead of putting it to waste with pop-up dialogues everyone will just power-surge through with no thoughts about it anyway... But as this sandbox kind-of-game doesn't usually come with a story, i figured it'd be best to leave it as early in the game as possible, as suggested built-in to the tutorial itself making it one and the same...
Cuz chances are, if you've played the story once, you don't wanna re-play it 20 times more cuz you had to re-roll your character, but still you might and if that's the case you don't want it to be a generic obstacle course, you want it to be engaging and make an impression.
Hell, sometimes I still play Freelancer just for the story, because it's good, and the tutorial is seemless with the story... But, it could've been done better, plus, it's not an MMO. The online servers of Freelancer has the introduction and first tutorial missions disabled, cuz they assume if you're online you've already played the story and understand the basics... It works well, and it's good, but it just misses that extra touch.

Another alternative could also be to make the story a separate game like Star Citizen does with Squadron.

For real tho, if you're into space-games and deep intense story I highly recommend Freelancer, the controls are still good for modern standards, it's just low graphics.
 
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punkbuzter#6186

D-Gater
Ark Liege
Jan 6, 2021
106
156
43
Sweden
#13
I can't remember what game this is from. But they used the idea of licenses to teach players. After all, before you can legally do things like drive a car or something you need to be tested and get a license. And in real life jobs you have to be certified before you are allowed to anything that could get you and/or others hurt. Even in the military they use certifications and credentials as way to pick people for different roles and/or missions.

So the different tutorials in that game was all done as if you was being tested to get a licenses for something or certified to be able to do something. After all, safety first. Plus we need to know that you can perform well on this mission. Failure is not an option. So we only picked with the right certifications and credentials to do this mission.
As far as I understand it and how Grummz has laid out his plans, switching between frames would be more similar to how you call down vehicles in Planetside 2, except you first have to craft them in Em8er instead of spending Certs, but once crafted you could call down a Heavy Frame and switch out the Light Frame you just used and send it back to base for later use, thus the use of frames handles the same, it's just depending on where you're putting your mined resources into. Are you spending it all on a Light Frame or a Heavy one? Tho chances are, if you give it some time you'll have all the frames available for drop-in.

Ofc, some skills may change how proficient you are in certain frames, but idk...
If they're optional then why not. But, doing it this way also puts another "system" into the game which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid with my original input. Systems, pop-ups, dialogues, run here run there, click this and that... All of this in my original post is within the same bubble before the MMO begins, which means you're all done with tutorial messages, hints and various guides once you hit the ground.
Finish it all in one seamless mission like , or Warframe, except in Em8er we get to play the story instead of an obstacle course. Saints Row 4 and Freelancer both integrates tutorial with story, except they're singleplayer games. Tho the "key" is hiding the tutorial, instead of laying out flat like some generic boring zone or training area.

Seamless, hidden, merged, immersive, and exciting, one and the same with the story, that's how I want a tutorial.
 

truekillerstar#4280

Ark Liege
Ark Liege
May 8, 2020
10
22
3
Ohio, USA
#15
Bosses and other content, it's not like Minecraft, Terraria or similar popular games has a story but everyone knows the ender dragon and moon lord means the final boss is dead... Killing the ender dragon and moon lord doesn't mean the game is over, the game is over when you decide it is. Planetside 2 for the longest time didn't have a story either, it has one now but it's barely presented, tho it fared well without one.

If Em8er has a story I figured it's best to present it to the players in a good and useful way, instead of putting it to waste with pop-up dialogues everyone will just power-surge through with no thoughts about it anyway... But as this sandbox kind-of-game doesn't usually come with a story, i figured it'd be best to leave it as early in the game as possible, as suggested built-in to the tutorial itself making it one and the same...
Cuz chances are, if you've played the story once, you don't wanna re-play it 20 times more cuz you had to re-roll your character, but still you might and if that's the case you don't want it to be a generic obstacle course, you want it to be engaging and make an impression.
Hell, sometimes I still play Freelancer just for the story, because it's good, and the tutorial is seemless with the story... But, it could've been done better, plus, it's not an MMO. The online servers of Freelancer has the introduction and first tutorial missions disabled, cuz they assume if you're online you've already played the story and understand the basics... It works well, and it's good, but it just misses that extra touch.

Another alternative could also be to make the story a separate game like Star Citizen does with Squadron.

For real tho, if you're into space-games and deep intense story I highly recommend Freelancer, the controls are still good for modern standards, it's just low graphics.
For Em8er's story, I'm under the impression that it's just the context of why we are here. To build on what you said, I think the only story we'll get is over Tsi-Hu because they are pre-established on the planet or since Em8er is modeled like the Wild West, it would be an arc per settlement (just like Spaghetti Western films) and these could be settled through raids or other world event dialogue.
 
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ChAzZ_NuT

Kaiju Slayer
Kaiju Slayer
Jan 22, 2017
76
172
33
#16
Bosses and other content, it's not like Minecraft, Terraria or similar popular games has a story but everyone knows the ender dragon and moon lord means the final boss is dead... Killing the ender dragon and moon lord doesn't mean the game is over, the game is over when you decide it is. Planetside 2 for the longest time didn't have a story either, it has one now but it's barely presented, tho it fared well without one.
Games like Minecraft and Terraria remain popular without a story because these types of sandbox games offer a LOT of creative freedom, essentially people make up their own content because of the almost endless possibility.

So I would not consider those games compelling comparisons. Other than the fact that Ember is a sandbox game, but it is not the type of sandbox game that offers you the same quantity of creative freedom.

Em8er is a game set in a deep story, so naturally, I would like to think that we get to see that story unfold as the Gatestriders expand across the planet. Give us a reason to fight, and if it's not the story, then the gameplay better be bloddy good.
 
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Aug 14, 2016
901
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#17
I just remembered one way some games do it. It was all a dream. You know how people who are training new skills or trying to find ways to better their skills will often times dream about doing those things and if anything useful is learned in the dream they try to do it in real life. Well the best thing about it being a dream is that anything can happen even if it doesn't make sense. So you could have the player start off with over powered gear and stuff fighting super powerful enemies as part of the tutorial before they wake up.

These kind of tutorials have the effect of giving players an idea of what things they can work towards and even hits on how some late game enemies might be like. I say might because player character not have seen or met any of those enemies for themselves yet but they hear stories about them from other people or in the records. So the versions they are seeing in their dream is jut a guess of what they think they are like.
 

Pandagnome

Kaiju Slayer
Fart Siege
Welcome Wagon
Happy Kaiju
Jul 27, 2016
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#18
I just remembered one way some games do it. It was all a dream. You know how people who are training new skills or trying to find ways to better their skills will often times dream about doing those things and if anything useful is learned in the dream they try to do it in real life. Well the best thing about it being a dream is that anything can happen even if it doesn't make sense. So you could have the player start off with over powered gear and stuff fighting super powerful enemies as part of the tutorial before they wake up.

These kind of tutorials have the effect of giving players an idea of what things they can work towards and even hits on how some late game enemies might be like. I say might because player character not have seen or met any of those enemies for themselves yet but they hear stories about them from other people or in the records. So the versions they are seeing in their dream is jut a guess of what they think they are like.
Could be with Dreams, or in a simulation, could even be that they placed premade memory implanted to the pilot, perhaps they wanted to see how the pilots react to the specific scenarios as a psychological evaluation?

Once they wake up what could you see?

- A lab and on a bed with the results of your initiation given by an A.I
- A random room where you fell asleep and woke up after a party and getting told off by one of the Reaper council
- laying near the gate and waking up with the code on your data pad on where to go next
- Unfrozen out of cryo and making your way out of the lab
- Awoken by beams and cool effects of a scan with a voice giving you instructions on how to calibrate
/ be in sync with your brain and body especially as the A.I links to you.
- Perhaps your not real and artificially created and your body is constructed in front of you introducing the avatar customization
- Or sky diving out of a dropship

etc etc