Any plans to compensate founders?

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Jul 27, 2016
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#1
I remember a long time ago you had a core audience of people who had supported you financially since the beginning, only to deal with mismanagement of funds, the crisis of durability and multiple changes in vision and design that ultimately killed any chance of Firefall recovering into anything resembling the vision people initially funded.

Now after years of waiting for Firefall to reach its 50th rework with extremely limited success you are asking to be crowdfunded again, I'm sure you will understand why many of us will have a hard time doing that.

On top of this, a man who goes by the name of Mark Kern who severely misallocated company funds and mistreated employees is supposedly leading this crowdfunding effort.


You screwed over your employees, and you screwed your consumers over, repeatedly. Why anyone who has had experience with Firefall would trust you with another cent is beyond me. If you care at all about reaching out to your original Firefall supporters, I would not count on them crowdfunding you. I would instead suggest that if you want those dedicated supporters to return to any degree and give this game a chance, you should offer them incentives based on their support of Firefall so they have an immediate investment in Ember as a result of enduring your last project. This will give your original founders a greater motive to check out this product when it goes live.

Until you are willing to do that I would recommend developing a game that has absolutely no connection to Firefall so you can sever any ties with that sinking ship, because those ties will be a lasting detriment to this project going forward.
 
Likes: MattVid
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PCMasterReece

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#4
No, you won't be getting a refund for money you spent on another game, made by a different company.

1. He doesn't have the list of people who have purchased things for Firefall.

2. Again, Different company. Why don't you try and ask Blizzard if they can give you a refund for Firefall. I mean several people that worked at Red5 back then work there now, so it's worth a shot right?
 

Rocket

Gatestrider - T.H.M.P.R.
Max Kahina
Jul 26, 2016
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#5
Being an early access supporter of any game carries a risk. And this is not Firefall. At the moment in fact it's nothing more than a crowd funded forum for a non existent game. A game which if made, might have a similar gameplay to closed beta FF, which had and still has nothing like it.

Demanding compensation for a risk all Firefall Founders (I loved my Locust Chopper) took, from a company with no links to the first, is as unreasonable as things get.

I see it this way. If Mark Kern was the problem some try to describe, then FF should have flourished once he was gone. As a long time player, I know from experience that the opposite happened. It went downhill afterwards, and I was buying Red Bens long after that.

This forum topic does not belong here. Get those moderators happening please Mark.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#7
So explain how these projects aren't linked. Ember refers to itself as Firefalls spiritual successor, Ember is being led by their old CEO who was fired on the grounds stated above, and I was emailed through my participation in the Firefall fiorums about Ember.

I am not claiming these people are Red5, but the link between these projects seems obvious.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#8
So explain how these projects aren't linked. Ember refers to itself as Firefalls spiritual successor, Ember is being led by their old CEO who was fired on the grounds stated above, and I was emailed through my participation in the Firefall fiorums about Ember.

I am not claiming these people are Red5, but the link between these projects seems obvious.
Using my limited knowledge here:
He received permission to send a mass PM to the Firefall accounts due to R5 and Firefall ending production (in the states anyway, dunno about China). Being aware that Firefall had a huge fanbase that was left behind, it was a strong strategic move on his part of PM us.

Yes, there is a strong link between the two due to Ember being geared towards the original Firefall vision. However, due to the fact that Kern WAS removed from Red5 (or resigned, or whatever it was), he is no longer accountable for what we the players spent on the game.

In the end, Red5 is accountable and you should attempt contacting them (if they have anything that still exists) to get your money back.

In the mean time, if Ember ever makes the funding it needs to begin true development and not just concept which is currently is in now, us original forum goers may get perks for being here since the beginning, just like we did in Firefall.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#10
So he has the means to email the accounts of Firefall players, but he doesn't have precise data on founders.

Maybe then a promotion exclusive to Firefall players would be welcome? Not founder tier things but small tokens of gratitude for time essentially wasted waiting for Firefall to reach completion. I.e An amount of currency, some exclusive cosmetic, etc.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#11
Not quite what I was trying to say. I don't know what the Crixa team does or does not have access to.

I think the hitch is that we're stuck on the word "Firefall". This forum is for a game named Ember that has not even come close to hitting production yet. Saying that this game, forum, and eventual production company owe any of us recompense for anything Firefall related is the same as saying that Don Bluth (who left Disney) owes us our money back on Pete's Dragon (A Disney movie).

Yes, that was oversimplified, but is the gist of the situation at hand.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#12
They don't owe it. But considering the way this game is presented and the means by which they have contacted old Firefall players, it would just make sense to tailor content towards that audience. So add a draw for those who have been burned by Firefall in the past. Beyond this discussion if this game ever hits development, I guarantee it will be tied to the word "Firefall", and there is a right and wrong way to deal with that.

I'm just suggesting that compensating Firefall players, even in a general way is a good way to reach out to that audience which Ember clearly wants. They are not held to any legal obligation to do that, but they should.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#13
We have bigger issues to worry about, such as having a game at all. Right now Ember's devs should be focusing on making a playable, and hopefully fun game based upon the spirit of the aforementioned corpse. Perhaps by the time there is a closed-beta stage for this game the devs will have come up with something to reward us Founders but for now please leave the devs to make a game to begin with. I highly doubt, given there is at least one R5 dev on the team (from what i can tell) and the efforts they went to attract Founders, that we will be left out in the cold when Ember goes live.
 
Likes: Biglulu
Jul 27, 2016
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#14
I can see better where you're coming from now and definitely understand that! I would certainly love to have a few perks for being one of the disenfranchised FF players.

Your point might have been better received if it had appeared in a more neutral tone, as the original post is highly accusitory. Simply asking "Can we have a perk or bonus for everyone who transferred from FF forums, since this has been mentioned as a hopeful game to take it's place?" Or something along those lines.

I understand the anger at not getting the FF release we were all promised, but at this point we simply can't hold that as the candle we light the way with. This is a ground zero start from scratch. Grummz has already expressed some idea that he's learned from the experience and wants to do better, so we have to believe that if we want a game at all.
 

Rocket

Gatestrider - T.H.M.P.R.
Max Kahina
Jul 26, 2016
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#15
So he has the means to email the accounts of Firefall players, but he doesn't have precise data on founders.
Your tone is moderating rapidly. Welcome.

I'm not sure that the person who is doing the messaging has access to mass message accounts. It appears to be someone with second tier founders status starting conversations with six (the limit) participants at a time, over and over until they message everyone. Their Firefall forum account shows them currently active in conversations. Jump on the FF forums and see for yourself.

Since there's no reason to believe they have access to a list of Founders and their details, the rest is immaterial. And this isn't Firefall anyway. This is Ember. Please help spread the word

Maybe if they got to buy the Firefall IP and assets ...
 

NitroMidgets

Tsi-Hu Hunter
Jul 27, 2016
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#17
At some point I want my rank reinstated. I did was an NCO was supposed to. That or I will accept having my character be 1/2 the size of everyone else. I'm not totally irrational (validity may very without notice) so I will accept either.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#18
I was supposed to be an NCO but never responded to the message due to a large and untimely move that had to happen. Looked like it didn't get anyone much tho.
 
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