About Ember, the Firefall spiritual successor

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Dr Doom

New Member
Jul 27, 2016
14
3
3
#6
Here we are, at the fan art (and fun art of course) and the design of the new game.
So, being here, I would like to address a couple of questions toward the.. who ever concern might be this discussion from the Ember staff.

Before all, I would like to ask the following:
- does this new game will take "Firefall" concept further into space (near future, close future, far in future, doesn't matter)? Or will be only on our planet happening all events.

In case that the answer above might be a YES, then:
- would the staff (developer staff) implement any art design from their fans and/or any 3D models that they might give into the game (at here I am referring to space ship, but, if someone else has other design/models is included also).

The modelling style of the blue prints (enemy, player character, ships, cars.. so on) will be a similar to firefall or will be different?

In case that more questions might pop up in my brain, will add it into this post. At this moment this 2 are sitting here + a few glass of gin.
 

AishaLove

New Member
Jul 27, 2016
2
2
3
#8
Just reposting the link on the Crixa blog that talks about the goals and means to get there for Ember. Worth a read if you are new here.


http://crixa.io/2016/07/ember-update-poster-art/
http://crixa.io/2016/06/ember-set-in-the-crixa-universe/

I just really hope you didn't take over any of those asshats insisting PVE is not important and that PVP needs to be 110% perfected before bothering with PVE content.

For a game that was being hailed by the devs as a new MMO experience with incredibly complex and robust PVE elements you guys shat that bed hard on those promises. Hopefully the remaining red5 staff are more interested in real satisfying PVE, not just only there to shut us up.
 

Luisedgm

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
103
149
43
#9
I just really hope you didn't take over any of those asshats insisting PVE is not important and that PVP needs to be 110% perfected before bothering with PVE content.

For a game that was being hailed by the devs as a new MMO experience with incredibly complex and robust PVE elements you guys shat that bed hard on those promises. Hopefully the remaining red5 staff are more interested in real satisfying PVE, not just only there to shut us up.
I lost count on how many MMOs have been ruined by PVP
 

Grummz

$6k package
Community Manager
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
808
6,719
93
#10
We learned from Firefall that designing a shooter for PvE and PvP simply don't mix. They might as well be two very different games. Ember is being designed for PvE. Later, if we add PvP, it will be very different from the frames you play in PvE. But that's a big if.
 
Jul 27, 2016
15
6
3
Portland Oregon
#11
We learned from Firefall that designing a shooter for PvE and PvP simply don't mix. They might as well be two very different games. Ember is being designed for PvE. Later, if we add PvP, it will be very different from the frames you play in PvE. But that's a big if.
Perhaps if you explore a different method of delivery; in your current model it has been observed that the frames are the centerpiece the player focuses on. However, if you shift that focus to a more neutral point, say the pilot, and differentiate between competitive PvP components versus say Warframe components (amongst others such as Industrial, Civilian and "Other") you gain that lateral leverage you need in the progression system.

It is generally agreed that this would entail a larger asset and development line for the initial build; yet this can be mitigated with the use of staged content release so the development can come in waves of finished deliverable content and hint to future builds. I would venture that the pilot's skills would allow them to modify their core piloting abilities to say unlock future content and frames as much as vehicles, LGV's and the like. In the integration of armies/factions this would facilitate modes of specialization players can take on that both fit the roles of various leadership as well as being able to continue to enjoy the game regardless of it's level of interaction.

Let's explore for a moment the idea that a catastrophe initially befell the centerpiece of the initial release playable faction(s). Anything that reduced their operational technology levels well below the normative expectation of a thriving society. We would see the emergence of a unique and wholly separate production and restitution of that technology but in a new way. Similarly, we are confronted with a dev decision not unlike Daniel Erikson, and the dilemma on delivering the Star Wars ideology and lore in a fun and engaging way. In this he decided on theatrical movie like fighting modes that would highlight the actions over the player interactions. In PvP this translated to MACRO's and Botting. The decision to give 'space on rails' was an old tool but the delivery was not well received at all and the subsequent attempts to revitalize space combat PvP or PvE is hard pressed to return to launch numbers.

Now in design terms, we are really discussing that age old catch 22, if you do nothing and appear a genius then it's genius, yet if you do something, anything; it can begin the end of your career depending on how it is received by the interested community. This is the age old tale of ever title launched to date. Nevertheless, to deliver on those promises we mulled over and watched (enter Extra Credits) there should be some form of dynamic focus that will allow for progression and participation in both aspects of the game seamlessly; or as close to the idea of it moderation and arbitration could provide. Sometimes PvP is it's own beast with regards to feelings and personalization. Yet with a well dicated ruleset and clearly defined crime and punishment system those issues quickly evaporate to competitive standards.

Take the MoBA competitive and Star Craft real time live action simulation. Each offers a completely defined set of achievable content, direct and balanced competitive matrices and they work to ensure the competitive edge is maintained throughout the creation of the content; i.e. powers and abilities that if earned highlight the character model and not act as balancing systems directly for all content.

At this point, I am certain you have joined equally versed conversations on this subject to ad nauseum; yet I implore you to consider the benefits of attempting to create this single advancement in the gaming industry that is so desperately needed. With the joining of competition and personal responsibility the game can become more than just a niche, it can break that mold. Ya'll were so close with the last model, and the balancing and rebalancing was IMHO right out. Skill and bot/hack protection are where things fell apart with aimbots and hacktools.

Any, whom, I tend to wax on from time to time. This is very exciting and I look forward to the core mechanics that will be offered this time around; at the very least, it may be a great side game afterall...
 
Likes: NitroMidgets
Jul 26, 2016
382
605
93
Australia
#12
PvP & PvE works in that game I keep rambling on about with 25% DMZ's :)

You either decide to go though knowing that you could be sniped at to save some time traveling though it. This adds to the open world nature.

 
Jul 27, 2016
15
6
3
Portland Oregon
#13
PvP & PvE works in that game I keep rambling on about with 25% DMZ's :)

You either decide to go though knowing that you could be sniped at to save some time traveling though it. This adds to the open world nature.

Open world PvP is an entirely different beast IMHO, yes it is a factor of PvP in it's entirety; yet it should never diverge from the predetermined ruleset and core gameplay mechanics. There is often times not enough risk/reward associated with past open world PvP settings. I have participated in many forms of OWPvP such as many of us likely have. Yet the most promising form of PvP I have found was in the core Crime and Punishment outlined in Elder Scrolls ad infinitum. It is roughly associated with the old school tabletop addition to DnD called bloodlines; yet it offers the player the rewards of lewting one item off the defeated player in exchange the act of engaging, subduing and then killing the player is three steps toward their detriment. There is no guarantee that the lewt will be swag or hack, but that is the risk vs reward.

Now those detrimental phases affect criminal status, faction association and the like. It has an impact greater or lesser depending on location as well. Witnesses, and often hidden observers, can join the combat in aid of the attacked player; thus offering some form of mitigation for their attack experience, yet not guarantee the presence of such support. Thus staying with NPC faction rotations and roaming groups would be valuable tactical options for players. Heightening player direct interaction as well as a form of balance not directly affecting the player or the game mechanics rebalance concept... hrms so much win going round here!
 

TankHunter678

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2016
369
311
63
#14
We learned from Firefall that designing a shooter for PvE and PvP simply don't mix. They might as well be two very different games. Ember is being designed for PvE. Later, if we add PvP, it will be very different from the frames you play in PvE. But that's a big if.
I remember in the early days how, despite a lot of community discussions and warnings about it, you guys talked about balancing pvp and pve together.

So i will say that if/when PvP comes, it should be balanced separately from pve. Its own stats, its own gear, its own skills, its own gameplay.

Cause as a player nothing bothers me more then having that situation of where my fun in pve gets destroyed because of a pvp balance patch.

The PvE player and the PvP player have very different mindsets, very different wants/needs, and trying to mix the two was a terrible idea.

Same for OWPvP. The PvE player will want certain protections, the OWPvP player will not want those protections in place. Why? For the OWPvP player the protections ruins their enjoyment, for the PvE player the OWPvP player ruins their enjoyment. If OWPvP was to come to Ember, it would need its own "world" server with warnings.

Sure it sucks segregating the community like that, but it does help prevent issues where you majorly anger one side of your playerbase in a balance patch while the other side is only not as angry.
 
Jul 28, 2016
12
16
3
49
Dayton, OH
#15
Open world PvP is an entirely different beast IMHO, yes it is a factor of PvP in it's entirety; yet it should never diverge from the predetermined ruleset and core gameplay mechanics. There is often times not enough risk/reward associated with past open world PvP settings. I have participated in many forms of OWPvP such as many of us likely have. Yet the most promising form of PvP I have found was in the core Crime and Punishment outlined in Elder Scrolls ad infinitum. It is roughly associated with the old school tabletop addition to DnD called bloodlines; yet it offers the player the rewards of lewting one item off the defeated player in exchange the act of engaging, subduing and then killing the player is three steps toward their detriment. There is no guarantee that the lewt will be swag or hack, but that is the risk vs reward.

Now those detrimental phases affect criminal status, faction association and the like. It has an impact greater or lesser depending on location as well. Witnesses, and often hidden observers, can join the combat in aid of the attacked player; thus offering some form of mitigation for their attack experience, yet not guarantee the presence of such support. Thus staying with NPC faction rotations and roaming groups would be valuable tactical options for players. Heightening player direct interaction as well as a form of balance not directly affecting the player or the game mechanics rebalance concept... hrms so much win going round here!
The entire idea of open world PVP, IMO, turns the game into a huge troll fest. I've seen it happen on Archage, where you're in a supposedly peaceful area where no pvp is supposed to be allowed, you're trying to tend your crops/animals and BAM! You're ganked by 5-6 max level raiders from the opposing faction. I am not opposed to limited areas or instances for pvp such as an arena, to hone ones combat skills in general and just have fun, or duels between players and squads, where just those individuals are flagged for the pvp in play. But open pvp all over, mingled with the pve, yeah sure it may be "realistic", but as in Archage, it falls flat in practice, when high levels go and face-rape lower level people while their guard is down in their faction/army territory for cheap kills. Needless to say, I didn't play Archage for very long(aside from the fact that it was very much a pay-to-win setup MMO/WoW clone.
 

Dr Doom

New Member
Jul 27, 2016
14
3
3
#16
Here we are, at the fan art (and fun art of course) and the design of the new game.
So, being here, I would like to address a couple of questions toward the.. who ever concern might be this discussion from the Ember staff.

Before all, I would like to ask the following:
- does this new game will take "Firefall" concept further into space (near future, close future, far in future, doesn't matter)? Or will be only on our planet happening all events.

In case that the answer above might be a YES, then:
- would the staff (developer staff) implement any art design from their fans and/or any 3D models that they might give into the game (at here I am referring to space ship, but, if someone else has other design/models is included also).

The modelling style of the blue prints (enemy, player character, ships, cars.. so on) will be a similar to firefall or will be different?

In case that more questions might pop up in my brain, will add it into this post. At this moment this 2 are sitting here + a few glass of gin.
Still waiting for an answer or a possible one. Thx
 

Shivaji

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
10
5
3
#17
hey kern, just an idea in the future instead of making the whole of chosen to be AI, make it like chosen or human faction and let the players choose either one... so the players can choose which type of class chosen they want and let class be juggernauts and so on, so nothing changes... This is different kind of pvp... lol jus saying, like the game Aion or metin2 and so on...
 

Sleepwalker

Firstclaimer
Jul 26, 2016
10
10
3
Sweden
gamingdefect.com
#18
hey kern, just an idea in the future instead of making the whole of chosen to be AI, make it like chosen or human faction and let the players choose either one... so the players can choose which type of class chosen they want and let class be juggernauts and so on, so nothing changes... This is different kind of pvp... lol jus saying, like the game Aion or metin2 and so on...
That would actually save server cost, BUT you will have a problem of most people chose one of them.
 

Dreadnought

Scout - Emberite
Jul 28, 2016
29
11
3
29
Malaysia
#20
Wow... I already like the T.H.M.P.R design and this game is not even out yet... after reading what firefall supposed to be I'm all hyped for this one, I played firefall in closed beta and I will support this as this is the one that I fall in love with. Good luck Mark.

I played a lot of games and in terms of PvP and think GW2 have it "perfected" since everyone will be at the same level and your skills that matters instead of "this guy is higher than you" or "he got cash item" so if you ever want to try PvP I guess you can look into those. As for PvE, so far most MMO that I play are similar some fall flat with only single targets lock which is bad. The reason I like Firefall PvE so much is that not only the world is expanse the events are dynamic and so much things can happen. I still remember the time as I ride my LGV and a thumper crashed in front of me, it was an amazing feeling.
 
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