Expedite game production pls

ChAzZ_NuT · May 3, 2022

"He's right ya know."

Hey Silv3r, great stuff. Personally, I come away from your post with one problem (opportunity to confront) which I feel needs to be addressed by everybody. And quite simply put, that problem is, as is in most cases of life "communication", it's a problem that branches out into a couple of different sub-areas, if you will;

Communication
- Forums
- Roadmap

Why do we need a forum?
A forum is a tool that allows a community to thrive (We want a thriving community, right?), and people are able to put across their honest opinions in a way that is thoughtful and engaging. They can lay a foundation, they can receive grounded and concise answers or opinions without having to worry about any of them vanishing away.
THAT'S RIGHT, I'm looking at YOU Discord!

Discord on the other hand, whilst a great place to chitter-chatter in a casual setting. Cannot replicate what a forum achieves, because opinions do not stick around. Nobody dares lay a foundation for thoughtful discussion on a platform that simply does not support it.

The team needs to start PROMOTING the forums, they need to start bringing more ATTENTION to the juicy thoughtful opinions that our community has to share... despite whether they're good ideas or bad! But we need and we want to take this game seriously, it's just the fact that the forums have been so neglected and ignored.

To summarise my first problem with communication; the forums need more love and attention, discord is not enough.

Why do we need a Roadmap?
A Roadmap gives us a direction, it grounds us in reality. And it allows the community to install trust in the developers of the project, so that when they make BIG asks. We feel more inclined to support them! We care about this project, but we (the community) can't know what to talk about OR expect if we don't know what's coming next. Simply put.

I'm not saying that everything down to the hex-codes of your favorite colored underwear should be laid out in front of us on a silver platter, but we need to know what the plan is in some kind of finer brushstrokes than has been.

To summarise my opinion on the roadmap; Make the roadmap!

Conclusion
When I combine the lack of forums and roadmap, I can't help but see a BIG disconnect between the Dev's and the rest of the community. Like the kind of ravine, you need something much longer than a plank to crawl across.

We want to know what's happening with the project and we want to talk about it, so help us do that!

P.S. - I LOVE EM-8ER

Pandagnome · May 4, 2022

ChAzZ_NuT said:

"He's right ya know."

Hey Silv3r, great stuff. Personally, I come away from your post with one problem (opportunity to confront) which I feel needs to be addressed by everybody. And quite simply put, that problem is, as is in most cases of life "communication", it's a problem that branches out into a couple of different sub-areas, if you will;

Communication
- Forums
- Roadmap

Why do we need a forum?
A forum is a tool that allows a community to thrive (We want a thriving community, right?), and people are able to put across their honest opinions in a way that is thoughtful and engaging. They can lay a foundation, they can receive grounded and concise answers or opinions without having to worry about any of them vanishing away.
THAT'S RIGHT, I'm looking at YOU Discord!

Discord on the other hand, whilst a great place to chitter-chatter in a casual setting. Cannot replicate what a forum achieves, because opinions do not stick around. Nobody dares lay a foundation for thoughtful discussion on a platform that simply does not support it.

The team needs to start PROMOTING the forums, they need to start bringing more ATTENTION to the juicy thoughtful opinions that our community has to share... despite whether they're good ideas or bad! But we need and we want to take this game seriously, it's just the fact that the forums have been so neglected and ignored.

To summarise my first problem with communication; the forums need more love and attention, discord is not enough.

Why do we need a Roadmap?
A Roadmap gives us a direction, it grounds us in reality. And it allows the community to install trust in the developers of the project, so that when they make BIG asks. We feel more inclined to support them! We care about this project, but we (the community) can't know what to talk about OR expect if we don't know what's coming next. Simply put.

I'm not saying that everything down to the hex-codes of your favorite colored underwear should be laid out in front of us on a silver platter, but we need to know what the plan is in some kind of finer brushstrokes than has been.

To summarise my opinion on the roadmap; Make the roadmap!

Conclusion
When I combine the lack of forums and roadmap, I can't help but see a BIG disconnect between the Dev's and the rest of the community. Like the kind of ravine, you need something much longer than a plank to crawl across.

We want to know what's happening with the project and we want to talk about it, so help us do that!

P.S. - I LOVE EM-8ER

That was a poetry speaking of poetry

Djepetto · May 7, 2022

Sorry for the spoiler but your issues will never be addressed. I shared roughly the same concerns around 3 years ago. You know what has been accomplished in that time? Take a look for yourself. Take a look at everything that has a been done and I don't understand how Grummz has been taken serious for so long. He played us all and I'm convinced a few of the people that defend him constantly since day one are on his "payroll." Grummz can never do anything wrong even tho he broke promise after promise after promise. This game is never going anywhere and Grummz knew that from the start. I'm sorry to break it to you "Guy," but Ember is nothing but a fools hope and dreams. The game will never be finished. I'm confident enough to say we've seen the most we're going to get out of it. Why or how could I say all of this? Because I've been here since day one. I've watched and listen to Ember go absolutely nowhere while Grummz takes your money. I'm only here now to witness the outcome when everyone else realizes they were scammed. Straight scammed. Not the game didn't work out and it wasn't funded enough blah blah blah...No. You were all straight scammed. And I'm here to witness the shame Grummz deserves, because what he's done is completely obvious and we all fell pray to Firefalls "successor" Ember. That's all it ever was suppose to be. Just an Ember. It was never meant to produce a flame or some "beacon of light." I'm not even mad. I gave up on this game long ago and have enjoyed title after title while this game has been in "build mode," for 7 years. It also taught me the most valuable lesson I could ever learn as a gaming consumer. Never pre purchase, kickstart or gofundme. But hey I only paid 45 and I was mad. I can only imagine how the people who spent way more feel. Chop it up as an L and move on. I dare Grummz to prove me wrong. But the thing is he doesn't have to. He protected his hind end from the start.

Pandagnome · May 8, 2022

Djepetto said:

I don't know about never hmm

Djepetto said:

Could you find the concern you mentioned and re-post it here?

Djepetto said:

Can only speak about myself here and i am only in a payroll for a small job coaching / childcare.
I can say that it is certainly slow process not as fast as we would of hoped for. Although with new additions to the Em8er team there will be some well needed skilled folks to lower the burden and reduce the time it could take.

Djepetto said:

Many of us have been here some from the beginning and some later on. I don't believe it is over, the issue is it is just very slow. Do believe there is going to be more progress incoming, we have to not let our imaginations go wild and sometimes mine does that.

One thought was Grummz & the team are taken hostage by a shadowy figure and the shadow figure is typing slow with their nose. Grummz & the team are sweating excessively because it doesn't help being near a heater either. Unable to do anything unless the team gives out the secret code to all of the Em8er universe so that the shadowy figure could rule it !!!!

Djepetto said:

Not so fast speedy Djepetto, lets take a step back and see how it plays out you might be pleasantly surprised hmm.

Djepetto said:

I would feel strongly if this is a scam and highly doubt it is.
If i am right and its a success you will have to eat your words, do a dance to every reaper you meet on your adventures.

Djepetto said:

Everyone had an idea what they were signing up to Em8er, it is similar to how warframe started and some decided to support DE, many thought the idea sounded amazing space ninjas who doesn't like that.
Anyways some took a break and others continued to support even after the long long wait the game was to a better standard.

I'd hate the game to be buggy and half completed as there are some big developers who do this and as first impression count its not so good.

Sadly i have not found many games that appeal to me its been a while and would want Em8er to be that game i can play and do so with many others. We will look back at this as some historical conversation and think the time we blabbered about our concerns of Em8er the pivotal point of better communication from the Em8er team to the community.

Djepetto said:

Em8er Team & @Grummz do you accept the challenge??

bengal · May 8, 2022

Djepetto said:

Sorry for the spoiler but your issues will never be addressed. I shared roughly the same concerns around 3 years ago. You know what has been accomplished in that time? Take a look for yourself. Take a look at everything that has a been done and I don't understand how Grummz has been taken serious for so long. He played us all and I'm convinced a few of the people that defend him constantly since day one are on his "payroll." Grummz can never do anything wrong even tho he broke promise after promise after promise. This game is never going anywhere and Grummz knew that from the start. I'm sorry to break it to you "Guy," but Ember is nothing but a fools hope and dreams. The game will never be finished. I'm confident enough to say we've seen the most we're going to get out of it. Why or how could I say all of this? Because I've been here since day one. I've watched and listen to Ember go absolutely nowhere while Grummz takes your money. I'm only here now to witness the outcome when everyone else realizes they were scammed. Straight scammed. Not the game didn't work out and it wasn't funded enough blah blah blah...No. You were all straight scammed. And I'm here to witness the shame Grummz deserves, because what he's done is completely obvious and we all fell pray to Firefalls "successor" Ember. That's all it ever was suppose to be. Just an Ember. It was never meant to produce a flame or some "beacon of light." I'm not even mad. I gave up on this game long ago and have enjoyed title after title while this game has been in "build mode," for 8 years. It also taught me the most valuable lesson I could ever learn as a gaming consumer. Never pre purchase, kickstart or gofundme. But hey I only paid 45 and I was mad. I can only imagine how the people who spent way more feel. Chop it up as an L and move on. I dare Grummz to prove me wrong. But the thing is he doesn't have to. He protected his hind end from the start.

There is a lot of truths in this & this shouldnt take this much time 3-5 years to make a game we have 6 now? (I may be wrong on that but still not even an alpha version yet)

https://geekygamingstuff.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-develop-video-games/

Pandagnome · May 8, 2022

bengal said:

It is a long time could be a lot of reasons for this starting off a very small team, the family commitments, the covid pandemic poop, life, funding, finding the right skilled individuals to work with, waiting for others to complete tasks so that work can flow, community funded dependent, etc etc etc

The geek article had a part which i like

"No matter how long the game development takes, remember it’s a complicated process. Seriously complicated. In AAA games, hundreds of people may be working to deliver the final product and they have to make everything come together to create something brilliant".

bengal · May 9, 2022

Pandagnome said:

This debate it really is a good thing, but will only go so far into the fact that people are loosing interest very fast, This went like gang busters in the onset & it truly seemed to be going very well & promising but as things moved along there it seemed to loose traction.

What would be good (IMO), would be to team with a studio (at this any would be better then what we have going) that can bring this to fruition.

there comes a point when a person has to realize that this is the limits to where i can get this project, there is nothing wrong with reaching out at this point truth be told it would show true conviction to the fact that this project is a passion & not a paying hobby.

to now touch on some of your reasons (excuses) as to the slowness any & all "if" they were valid should have by all means been verbalized to the community to keep us all abreast of timing.

Pandagnome · May 9, 2022

bengal said:

Spoke to some friends about Em8er they love the ideas and look of it, but there is nothing to keep them.
Since most folks either want a decent demo with the features and game play to experience as a whole.

bengal said:

How much of an additional cost would that be?

Which studio would most likely be suitable?

If such studio helped would they be hired for a set work contract, while crixa labs builds their own team up in the process?

If Crixa labs are already building the team then eventually it could become a decent studio!

So from what we know Grummz is looking for individuals with specific skill set in their field.
Instead of hiring a studio itself and rather finding the right team players could benefit Crixa labs but the question is how long could that take?

bengal said:

Better communication would be great with the help of a feed and a time line.
I remember with Hirez studio they kept a lot of things to themselves it was very annoying and left many betrayed by what they did to their game global agenda.

Silv3r Shadow · May 9, 2022

Lots of good comments. And the support of the YouTube content creators here in the forum's discussing this. Thanks for all the support on this!

bengal · May 10, 2022

Pandagnome said:

there was a bit there but here is one caveat that seems to be nearly forgotten in all this

"Revenue in the Video Games segment is projected to reach US$175.10bn in 2022. Revenue is expected to show an annual growth rate (CAGR 2022-2026) of 8.17%, resulting in a projected market volume of US$239.70bn by 2026. " from statista.com

I do understand there needs to be a passion for this & it appears that there is but in the same breath it seems to not have the urgency that you would expect to see.

I grant you that life happens but if this were a brick & mortar business the investors would not be a happy bunch, they want to see what is happening with there investment

Pandagnome · May 10, 2022

bengal said:

It is very difficult to see what is going on behind the scenes and have to put trust in the specialist in their field. With all the discussion and comments it would be a surprise if no initiative was taken to spear head Em8er forwards.

You got a good point on the brick & Motar analogy and i honestly believe things will pick up for Em8er.
Most of the times my head is in the clouds and eventually it won't it will be in the game where we can team up defeat those annoying tsihu!

If Em8er team are reading this

bengal · May 11, 2022

I completely understand the passion, BUT (you knew it was coming) in the gaming world these days (from all the people I know anyway). there are few who play one game & getting a foothold is the biggest step. if (& this game had so many people put there foot in the door) the door closes then it gets totally lost in the crowd,

i really want this to move ahead but I am loosing faith that it will

Zenyros · May 11, 2022

I am aware that I have rarely spoken on this (I've only recently come back to check forums and only just joined the Discord server), but I do agree with some of the point previously stated. As backers/investors/customers of the game, an indication of what path developers would settle some minds.

I would like to add (that is if any developers/producers see this) that the most important thing to do, especially with game development, is to build that core gameplay and idea AND THEN expand on that. When I initially joined Firefall's closed beta that long ago, all they had was a basic looking Copa to spawn in when you joined the game or died, the beach area with some enemies with the few Omniframes you could switch between with ease to trial them out for their weapons and abilities. That was the core idea, and during the beta, they kept adding more and more into it and then expanded on that, and it released as something that had incredible potential to grow (and it did).

These days, I'm noticing that games being made start with an idea and bring out some mechanics or have an alpha that's unoptimised and then start implementing ideas and mechanics that aren't integral to the core gameplay, or release skins or liveries or any-what-have-you-decorative piece. If that's done for raising money, that is completely fine, but that should never be the main focus when developing a game.

While I realise and accept that Crixa's team is definitely a lot smaller than Red5, the core element of the game is the most crucial thing to focus on and polish, and then expand from there. I guarantee that streamers and avid gamers who play a polished idea that is a nice-looking, optimised closed beta that has the core gameplay in it will get more people on-board.

Anyway, that's just my little mini-rant. I've been in tons of different closed betas for games a while back and I totally love mech-based games so i would definitely like to see this succeed. TL;DR, roadmap definitely good idea.

Pandagnome · May 12, 2022

bengal said:

There was a time where i did play one game it was first global agenda then after that vanished it was firefall.

Now not so much i am jumping from a few games or doing other things because it is not the same.

Official Godzilla quote

"I have yet to discover Em8er and very hungry"

bengal · May 12, 2022

Pandagnome said:

EXACTLY my point...
do we want this pushed to the "Everything else" pile? not me but unless things move this moves there

abdu#4918 · May 13, 2022

This just might end-up being a Waifu Cards Game at this rate xD

bengal · May 14, 2022

abdu#4918 said:

This just might end-up being a Waifu Cards Game at this rate xD[/QUOTE

you may be right

ive been checking regularly & there have been no new posts in "Em-8er news" since Feb I havent checked when the last time anyone on the development team posted.
the last post was for skin too.

Pandagnome · May 14, 2022

abdu#4918 said:

Wonders if the card game could be some mini game inside Em8er or we could purchase the Uno Em8er edition through the online store hmm

Honestly i am looking forward to whats coming ahead with more updates promised and know where Em8er is than waiting for long duration without much word.

Skins are part of Em8er and there are some great one's, cannot wait to see how the Em8er terrain will be developed further and to finally move around on it and to eventually experience the environment come more to life with eruptions of lava and cracks forming etc etc

!!!Oh yes and can we have a nice road map please!!!

liandri · May 14, 2022

Pandagnome said:

Off-topic, when they get around to releasing the game, having the tabletop as something you could play in-game would be neat. Have an instanced room on the HOS you can join with other players, starting your own little instances. Bring your characters from one game to another. Not sure how much use it would get, but it'd be a way to have players interested in the tabletop to play online together.

I was actually going to do a write-up about the M3 campaign, and how it was originally set at $20,000, and it surpassed that, then list out all the other features and changes that were added along the way that increased development time while also increasing the marketability of the game, and how those were positives and what were the actual negatives in my mind, but I saw this on the campaign page under "Milestones? What are those?":

"This has benefits for us, the developers, too. First, we don't end up building a game where there is not enough demand or community. Second, we also avoid wandering off course or into feature creep as we have to keep very focused on these smaller goals. Finally, we get to grow an enthusiastic, excited community over time, not based on hype, but based on what they've actually played. "

I saw this and remembered very quickly why I backed in the first place. This was the case. Development came reasonably quick. New features were added often. You could play the new demos and get a lot of enjoyment out it. You could immediately give feedback and things would usually change in a future update.

This is no longer the case. Demos are slow to come. The features added aren't interesting. "Ah, I see you added some fog and a small patch of dirt and rocks. Nice." The last interesting feature was the new THMPR encounter, and that was... 10 months ago? The next line in the campaign:

"The ultimate goal is to have a couple of milestones to build our first playable mockup of the game. This is what devs call a "vertical slice," which is taking the core elements of gameplay and fully rendering them to see how it looks/feels. This is used to ultimately approve full development of the project. Only, in this case, it is the community instead of a publisher who will be approving our playable mockup."

This first underline I had in the back of my mind when we were told that the actual textures and final terrain wouldn't be shown off until near Kickstarter. It made sense, not to divert resources to it, but it's an integral part of gameplay regardless. If I'd say anything positive now about Em-8ER, at least the new hire Mark will do wonders for the terrain and make the world feel far more real then the literal barren landscape currently. A step in the right direction that I'm watching for.

The second line, well, that's this thread ain't it? Missing a few big names here. Not going to go down the Djepetto route, say everyone was scammed and people who aren't talking about are paid off, because I don't believe that, but it seems quite a few people feel disappointed at the very least and justifiably so. And if they don't vocalise this feeling, the game won't progress with the same urgency it was back after M3.

Listening to the latest Chief Chat in April, the Newcomer packs are being discontinued and the "Bridge" funding coming in at the end of May, and this apparent dev blog that was delayed due to Grummz being sick around the same time I'd think, the concerns here should be alleviated over the next month or two. Hopefully.

Pandagnome · May 14, 2022

liandri said:

I can imagine that we could pause our table top games and get back to it something to look forward to since these tabletop adventures could take time.

Having an actual table top board game to keep just like the Em8erdon plushie would be great to keep.

In Em8er you could have the table top games played by many folks from different parts of the world just like the Em8er game itself.

Would we have our table top pieces as our main characters in miniature form and could it even have skins to customize our pieces from chibi to etc

Got me thinking the Art from our artists would be very useful not just for the game also for the table top too that led me to this interesting video.

Expedite game production pls

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