In my opinion, I find the days where enemies didn't have super long name variants and tougher enemies were simply rare as they were like deathclaws in fallout or hunters in halo in their environment made for less complaints and boredom. Destiny had enemy and combat somewhat right and enjoyable, only combat I find engaging as for now.
Ps: I find scaling is a poor compensation for needing a level mechanic for most newer mmos. Older games with scaling at least didn't always reuse models or graphics helping keep fights more fresh due to the wide variety of visually different enemies.
Ps: I find scaling is a poor compensation for needing a level mechanic for most newer mmos. Older games with scaling at least didn't always reuse models or graphics helping keep fights more fresh due to the wide variety of visually different enemies.
Likes:
Blackfyre
i think it was said already....
but, well even in horizontal games enemies must be "scaled" in a way somehow.... (so that players with the best equipment got still challenges) but that can be done with stronger enemy types, more enemies and constantly more mini bosses running 'round
but, well even in horizontal games enemies must be "scaled" in a way somehow.... (so that players with the best equipment got still challenges) but that can be done with stronger enemy types, more enemies and constantly more mini bosses running 'round
Likes:
Blackfyre
I don't like that stronger enemy types. At least not when they have just more hp and damage. Evolving or making them look different is the way to go. But they can't be damage sponges.
Likes:
Blackfyre and OziriusSVK
meh, didn't mean that. Rather like you got more enemies and stronger types between them. E.g. (from FF) you got in high lvl ares a huge group of chosens compared to before and some are "stronger" like a having a whoel squad made of shocktroopers, grunts and juggernauts an between them are siegebreakers, executioners and that shit
Why not implement a learning AI? It'd get stronger as we did. The more we won the more it learns our strategies, the more we lose the more it steals various tech and resources from us to figure out what we've got that it doesn't. Basically it gets stronger as we do without the need to up stats artificially. 
Likes:
Blackfyre
Well, thats a way to do it too, but i don't think they got much experience in activity analising that they could write into an ai, nor the experience to do so. But if it is the case, i would say that it resets with a server rest.
And i would also suggest to make static servers for players that they can only leave to join other platoons and squad or can meet with the platoon or squad in a raid/other instance. But when he left the platoon and relogs he gets teleported into hs "home instance"
And i would also suggest to make static servers for players that they can only leave to join other platoons and squad or can meet with the platoon or squad in a raid/other instance. But when he left the platoon and relogs he gets teleported into hs "home instance"
There shouldn't really be any enemy scaling. I mean there should be weaker and tougher enemies, but stats shouldn't be going up as you progress through the game. Instead they should change variety of enemies, their attacks, combination, numbers and hazards around the enemies. That way things will become more challenging as needed, but by themselves enemies can be killed even by basic weapons by anyone.
I think this is one of the hardest parts of making game like this, you don't have option of taking cheap route and increasing stats on everything for the sake of new content, you actually have to put good effort in making things challenging, interesting and fresh by creating new enemies with new attacks, or creating combination of existence enemies that provide new challenges by how they work together.
I think this is one of the hardest parts of making game like this, you don't have option of taking cheap route and increasing stats on everything for the sake of new content, you actually have to put good effort in making things challenging, interesting and fresh by creating new enemies with new attacks, or creating combination of existence enemies that provide new challenges by how they work together.
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Likes:
EvilKitten
Meh, we still need a few mega bullet sponges that del real dmg like.... JUGGERNAUTS! No, no joke, we need the old FF juggernauts, elite juggernauts, siegebreaker (elite elite juggernauts) , elite siegebreaker (yeah elite elite elite juggernauts ), razorwind siegbreakers (yeah, the razordwinds from 1.3 <3 so kinda elite elite elite elite juggernauts xD) executioners, elite executioners and all that monsters
), razorwind siegbreakers (yeah, the razordwinds from 1.3 <3 so kinda elite elite elite elite juggernauts xD) executioners, elite executioners and all that monsters 
Yes, you are right in that we need some kind of "scaling", but doing it WITH ONLY stronger enemy types and more enemies, more mini Bosses is not very smart. It is just "brute force" scalling (more enemies=more total enemy HP=it is same as bullet sponges, you just split it to more targets). It would reach a point when density of enemies is so high, you would only use AOE weapons (remember WarFront?)
Well spoken. We need to focus on options, not necessity in combat. We should focus on creating tactical combat, in which you need to be smart to win over enemy (not just spamming aoe) and where specialized roles (assault, tank, sniper, engineer) have their role and their prefered targets.
Yes, we need to think more this way. But it is not enough.
I hate bullet sponges, it kills sniper role pretty quickly and generally game starts to feel dumb.
Yes, they were tougher, but they had weakness (slow charging weapons, slow firing rate, slow mobility, or weak point in their armor)
So to sum up what I am trying to tell:
"Scaling should be done in creating more tactical combat scenario. And we need to start with proposing of creatures with different characteristics (with strong and weak characteristics) and way how to counter them and then creating groups of different creatures that are harder to counter". Examples what I have on mind:
So my opinion is: we should focus on creating more tactical combat scenarios and creatures. More ways how to kill or approach creatures, more fun and enjoyable content we got. And we also solve enemy scaling
Well spoken. We need to focus on options, not necessity in combat. We should focus on creating tactical combat, in which you need to be smart to win over enemy (not just spamming aoe) and where specialized roles (assault, tank, sniper, engineer) have their role and their prefered targets.
Yes, we need to think more this way. But it is not enough.
I hate bullet sponges, it kills sniper role pretty quickly and generally game starts to feel dumb.
Yes, they were tougher, but they had weakness (slow charging weapons, slow firing rate, slow mobility, or weak point in their armor)
So to sum up what I am trying to tell:
"Scaling should be done in creating more tactical combat scenario. And we need to start with proposing of creatures with different characteristics (with strong and weak characteristics) and way how to counter them and then creating groups of different creatures that are harder to counter". Examples what I have on mind:
Creature 1: melee attacker, strong frontal armor, vulnerable from behind, slow movement and slow turn rate
And so on, I didnt even get to flying creatures...How to counter: Move behind it and shoot vulnerable spot before it slowly turns towards you
Creature 2: melee attacker, slow movement, no armor, ability to root you in place in melee range (15 sec CD, 3 sec duration)
How to counter: Be on move and kill it from sufficient distance.
Creature 3: melee attacker, no armor, quick movement toward you, ability to teleport randomly to side when it takes DIRECT dmg (3 charges with 15 sec CD), in melee range ability to teleport behind you and push you some distance from it (preferable to other creatures) (60 sec CD), taking electricity dmg will shock it and it will loose all abilities and is unable to move for some time (10 sec)
How to counter: Preferable to shock it with electric dmg, or keeping distance and by dealing dmg depleting its ability to teleport
Creature 4: melee attacker, slow movement, strong armor that will break after taking some dmg, taking frost dmg will quickly freeze the armor and make it fragile to break from taking any DIRECT dmg, (Optional: vulnerable spot without armor)
How to counter: Preferable with frost dmg, or destroying armor by brute force (If with Optional: or by shooting vulnerable spot)
Creature 5: slowly shooting attacker which throw/shoot at you slowly moving projectile along arc, which is easily avoided by dodge/moving to sides, weak/medium armor (breakable/unbreakable), medium movementHow to counter: Try to avoid attack by dodging and kill it
Creature 6: attacker with charging (3 sec) shooting in line (you can easily see and hear charging) it CANNOT turn when it start charging, medium movement, weak/medium armor (breakable/unbreakable)
How to counter: watch when it is charging and dont stand in line of shooting
Creature 7: Flock of creatures with medium movement, which are always circling around center of their flock in such way, that creatures with the most hp are trying to be in front of the flock, no armor/weak armor, melee attackers, (Optional: flammable, when damaged by fire dmg (not explosive dmg), they are set on fire and panic= leave the flock and start to eradicaly move and they can set other creature on fire as well )
How to counter: AOE dmg and keep distance or just shoot and keep moving (Optional: use fire to spread fire to other creatures xD )
Creature 8: Support creature with big front shield (shield like in medieval game, not energy) breakable, slow movement but quick turn rate and needs to rest when it travel some distance, when resting it doesnt hold shield high enough so you can easily directly hit his head/part of body, no other armor, other creatures are hiding behind it (limited number) until this creature lost its shield or they are close enough to charge directly at you, low melee dmg (AOE dmg doesnt get past shield)
How to counter: Break the shield with frost dmg, or wait till it is tired and shoot at it then.
Creature 9: Support creature with healing abilities (5 sec channeling, 10 sec CD) (channeled heal preferable with visible link between healer and healed creature) healing can be canceled if healer take dmg while channeling , medium movement, weak/medium armor, no fighting capabilities
How to counter: Kill as first target or shoot at him to break heal when it is chanelling.
Creature 10: Support creature that deploy time limited energy shield around few meters, shield holds till creature is channeling it (it cannot move while channeling), shield have limited HP (if shield is destroyed by dmg it will overload creature and kill it immediately) and can be penetrated by penetrating ammo (sniper), you can pass through shield and kill creature directly, quick movement, no armor
How to counter: Destroy by brute force, or move in and kill the creature while it is channeling the shield, or ask sniper to finish it right away with penetrating ammo
Creature 11: "Slime type" support creature with channeling ability that creates imaginary creatures (with low HP than real creatures, and no dmg/ low dmg capabilities but they still act as real obstacle ), 2 sec channeling to create one imaginary creature, 5sec CD, during CD it reposition itself and try to hide behind other creatures, all imaginary creatures die when this creature die, can be shocked by electric dmg, medium movement, medium armor, (Optional 1: if attacked in melee range it will jump at you and use its body to wrap around you, you take acid dmg and only others can dmg this creature in this stage, after few seconds it will eject you with force and after landing you are knock down. Optional 2: "Hydra" ability, for every imaginary creature killed, two new imaginary creature will appear)
How to counter: Kill as fast as possible, or use some technology (your AI support, thermal vision, etc.) to determine which creature is imaginary and which is not, (Optional1: dont go near it, Optional2: very dangerous if imaginary creatures can damage you, focus on the Right creature )
So my opinion is: we should focus on creating more tactical combat scenarios and creatures. More ways how to kill or approach creatures, more fun and enjoyable content we got. And we also solve enemy scaling
that reminds me a bit of the crow-caller from LOTRO. You had to kill every of his crows to even dmg him, he could some1 up to 2 crows and could respawn them....
also unit idea (yes kinda siegebreaker): short range combat, got a plasma launcher shooting a 3 shot burst, got 3 seconds crage time (user can move and turn while charging) medium armor, medium speed. Can charge towards you and stuns you for 5 seconds if it charges you, it gets stunned for 2.5 seconds and can instantly charge teh weapon, letting you 0.5 seconds to dodge.
Counter: seeking higher positions, staying in the air or dodging teh charges.
it would be hard to kill it solo without good micromanagment and fast reflexes
idea 2 (yeah, a real kinetic bullet sponge unless you got acid/toxic dmg):
high armor, absorbing 90% of all dmg types except toxic/acid dmg, medium dmg, got low range and meele attacks. very slow, slow turn rate, low, not absorbing armor at the neck, ells, kees and hip.
Counter: keep far away, using acid (goes through armor and debuffs) or toxic (lets him waste away at a medium speed, makes him vulnerable and unable to attack at the first contact with the poison/toxic substance (bullet ^^)) dmg to ignore the armor
and yeah i still remember DT front, always played as mammoth with turret mode xD
also unit idea (yes kinda siegebreaker): short range combat, got a plasma launcher shooting a 3 shot burst, got 3 seconds crage time (user can move and turn while charging) medium armor, medium speed. Can charge towards you and stuns you for 5 seconds if it charges you, it gets stunned for 2.5 seconds and can instantly charge teh weapon, letting you 0.5 seconds to dodge.
Counter: seeking higher positions, staying in the air or dodging teh charges.
it would be hard to kill it solo without good micromanagment and fast reflexes
idea 2 (yeah, a real kinetic bullet sponge unless you got acid/toxic dmg):
high armor, absorbing 90% of all dmg types except toxic/acid dmg, medium dmg, got low range and meele attacks. very slow, slow turn rate, low, not absorbing armor at the neck, ells, kees and hip.
Counter: keep far away, using acid (goes through armor and debuffs) or toxic (lets him waste away at a medium speed, makes him vulnerable and unable to attack at the first contact with the poison/toxic substance (bullet ^^)) dmg to ignore the armor
and yeah i still remember DT front, always played as mammoth with turret mode xD
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I think the whole point in having horizontal and no vertical progression is that there is no best equipment. The starter gear you start with is technically as strong as anything you will ever find. It simply is not going to be specialized. Even as your fingers are typing out the word horizontal you are still saying vertical.
Likes:
Luisedgm
I really don't like pushing my idea like this, but I just think, that elemental bullets are a stupid idea. They have nothing to do with laws of physics. Generally I think that elements must have different roles and toxic damage is extremely good against living targets. I mean like extremely. A grunt dies just by standing in toxins for 2 seconds. Acid is corroding armor making it vulnerable to toxins (because they do nothing to any armor if it is not corroded). So just that Sorry for having to do this, I just don't want that elemental bullshit we saw in Firefall
Sorry for having to do this, I just don't want that elemental bullshit we saw in Firefall
I really don't like pushing my idea like this, but I just think, that elemental bullets are a stupid idea. They have nothing to do with laws of physics. Generally I think that elements must have different roles and toxic damage is extremely good against living targets. I mean like extremely. A grunt dies just by standing in toxins for 2 seconds. Acid is corroding armor making it vulnerable to toxins (because they do nothing to any armor if it is not corroded). So just that Sorry for having to do this, I just don't want that elemental bullshit we saw in Firefall
Sorry for having to do this, I just don't want that elemental bullshit we saw in Firefall
pinpoint accuracy, so you had to aim pretty good, low mag capacity, and insta poisoning xD#
and no, it was no elemental weapon (no prefix) that was the nice thing of the bio injector