The line between Red5's IP and Crixa's.

Do you think that using similar if not the same names from Firefall is a good idea or is it not?

  • Yes, Mark has every right to use similar names.

    Votes: 12 22.2%
  • No, I think it's a bad idea and we should start brainstorming some legitimately good ideas.

    Votes: 26 48.1%
  • I don't think it matters either way.

    Votes: 16 29.6%

  • Total voters
    54
Jul 26, 2016
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#1
I mean I really want to see Ember made. It sounds like an amazing idea and I really hope we can help get it to beta phase so we can see the fruits of Crixa and Mark and his team's as well as our labors.....but I'm just a bit worried about the naming of some of the things...I mean..omniframe and T.H.M.P.R..sounds a little familiar....I just don't want this project to be shutdown before it has a chance to seriously blossom. Any comments people? Feel free to state em! Do you agree with me or do you have a different view on the matter?
 

Shivaji

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
10
5
3
#4
I dont think it will shutdown, this is like apple's iPhone and Xiaomi's MI phones... both look similar, both UI are similar but the s/w and hardware are different... FF runs on old engine and Ember will be on UE4 engine... If they change the looks/names of mobs then its possible...
 
Jul 26, 2016
1,461
2,441
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#6
They have no grounds for suing just like Bethesda and Mojangs' Scrolls was a garbage suit.
Yep. But it didn't stop them.
I don't think we really need to worry about it though.
If you look at the industry, this seems to be normal to sue each other over even the slightest infraction. I'm sure Mr. Kern has got something to deal with any legal issue that shows up. It ain't his first rodeo after all.
 

Red

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
14
23
3
#7
I dont think they should name the things similar, i understand that this game is supposed to be the "Spiritual Successor to Firefall" but i feel like naming the things that are clearly thumpers as T.H.M.P.R is a little much. When you go that far it looks like the game was made out of spite and i dont want this to be that, i doubt this community wants the game to be based off something toxic.
 
Likes: EvilKitten
Jul 26, 2016
14
16
3
54
San Diego
www.joessalsa.com
#8
I am also concerned about lawsuits and think it might be better in the longrun to develop different names. Unless, Mark knows something we don't.

If you are reading this Mark your feedback could help clarify the question we have, regarding a possible lawsuit against the Ember naming issue.
 

EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#9
Keeping the original spirit of Firefall yes, copying the details verbatim no. Ember would need to be able to stand on its own.
 

Grummz

$6k package
Community Manager
Ember Dev
Jul 25, 2016
808
6,719
93
#10
The irony of a Chinese company enforcing IP is hilarious.

But keep in mind I studied law, have a degree, and my specialty was intellectual property law. Names can be trademarked, but Thumper and Frame were never trademarked by Red 5. Copyright doesn't protect names, per se, but can be used to show that one book or movie is a derivative work of another.

Trademarks protect the source of origin of a product. The key on infringement is consumer confusion. If a consumer mistakes your products name for being made by someone else, then that is confusion of the source of the product. I don't think we have any issues there. Nobody is confusing Ember as being from Red 5 or The9.

Copyright protects the *expression* of an idea, but not the idea itself. If you wanted to write a book about hunting a giant white whale, you'd be fine and not infringing on Moby Dick so long as you did not use the same characters, plot, etc. But its the WHOLE of the work that is judged together, not individual elements in isolation. So Ember is quite different as a whole, and its "thumper" is vastly different from anything Firefall ever had.

There is a ton of confusion about IP law out there, but I'm pretty well versed in it. I think we'll be fine :)
 
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Bl4ckhunter

Active Member
Jul 26, 2016
157
123
43
#14
A few hints to firefall here and there are fine imho but you wouldn't want to copy every non copirighted name even if you can, remember that at the end firefall was a massive and catastrophic failure, i'm not sure we want THAT much legacy in here, besides names aren't THAT hard to come by.
 

Kyrie626

New Member
Jul 28, 2016
1
0
1
#15
I began and stopped playing FF a few months before FF was sold. I missed out on the history of development... what exactly happened?

All I observed is that right around when the sale was going through, Red5 went radio-solent EMCON and never surfaced again.

I assume:
1. Sale was undertaken due to unsustainable costs
2. New owners fired everyone
3. And then shut the game down?

What/Why exactly did they buy? Is there plan to localize the game to China only?
 

Bl4ckhunter

Active Member
Jul 26, 2016
157
123
43
#16
I began and stopped playing FF a few months before FF was sold. I missed out on the history of development... what exactly happened?
All I observed is that right around when the sale was going through, Red5 went radio-solent EMCON and never surfaced again.
I assume:
1. Sale was undertaken due to unsustainable costs
2. New owners fired everyone
3. And then shut the game down?
What/Why exactly did they buy? Is there plan to localize the game to China only?
originally the game wasn't "sold" by red5, red5 itself was financed (bought) by the9 at some point, following in-company divisions the red5 board decided to have kern step down from ceo position for reasons to be determined but keep him as intern, but he left altogether, then the management started making a mess of the game in order to attempt to conform to the WoW-clonefail genre which may or may not be mandated by the investors (the9), failed massively and were fired themselves as the investors supposedly stepped in replaced them with asian mmorpg dinosuaursdevs and since asian market exists in a delayed time pocket that's still in 2005 the game is spiralling in to an ever growing failure, but hasn't been shut down yet.
That's the story without pro/anti kern bias in short.
 
Jul 27, 2016
34
10
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#17
Why not distance yourself as far from Firefall as possible in terms of things like this?

Spiritual successor doesnt = clone. Come up with your own unique names. They can still operate and function similarly or even identically to Firefall.

Firefall , by and large, is a negative term in the gaming community. If Ember is trying to cater to JUST firefall players, then by all means, Thumper , Frame, Melding it up, but if you want to bring in new players, why in the world would you associate yourself with a failed product, regardless of what version you are making your game like?
 

MollilMayhem

Active Member
Jul 27, 2016
61
160
33
GA, USA
#18
I began and stopped playing FF a few months before FF was sold. I missed out on the history of development... what exactly happened?

All I observed is that right around when the sale was going through, Red5 went radio-solent EMCON and never surfaced again.

I assume:
1. Sale was undertaken due to unsustainable costs
2. New owners fired everyone
3. And then shut the game down?

What/Why exactly did they buy? Is there plan to localize the game to China only?

I don't know if it's actually "shut down" now...I believe the server is still up and running. They did fire the rest of Red5 as I understand it. As to whether or not it's been sold, I really don't have any information on that. I think The9 still has controlling interest in it....no idea what they are going to do with it though.
 
Jul 27, 2016
34
10
8
#20
I don't know if it's actually "shut down" now...I believe the server is still up and running. They did fire the rest of Red5 as I understand it. As to whether or not it's been sold, I really don't have any information on that. I think The9 still has controlling interest in it....no idea what they are going to do with it though.
Huh? The9 has always owned FF I thought? At least by the alpha they did... unless Im mistaken.