Weapon Customization

How intricate should Weapon Customization be?

  • Drastic Weapon Changes! (Change Bullets -> Ice Needles, Grenades -> Splitting Napalm Bombs, etc.)

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • Quality of Life Changes! (Scopes, Grips, Extended Mag, Tripods, etc.)

    Votes: 28 65.1%
  • MMO Style Changes! (Find X to increase damage, find Y to increase range, etc.)

    Votes: 4 9.3%
  • None, just give me a bunch of weapons to choose from

    Votes: 3 7.0%
  • Give me Firefall Beta's customization

    Votes: 14 32.6%

  • Total voters
    43

FoxnEagle

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
2
0
1
#1
Wanted to open up a thread about the biggest game-breaker for me

Personally, I like the way games like Zombie Party, Magicmaker, Warframe, and even some MMO's style the weapon customization. Mods/Artifacts/Weapon Addons are always fun and interesting for me, and being able to swap stuff out WITHOUT creating a whole new weapon is nice

Another route to go would be something that Dungeon Defenders 2 does with its tower/skill augments that you find on weapons/gear

While Firefall beta had some decent weapon customization, since we are starting with a new game decided to put my opinion out and would like to see what other suggestions people have
 

Satokh

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
1
0
1
#2
I like the idea of diffrent ammo types and diffrent weapon attachments. Diffrent ammo types that change the type of damage that you deal, changing scopes, mags, grips also sounds cool.
 

Aphaz

Deepscanner
Jul 26, 2016
187
260
63
#3
what i liked the most in FF was the mass/pwr/cpu way of customizing ur character where u had to choose what and how much of it u wanted, sacrificing something to gain something else.
also the possibility to allocate extra pwr (if u had it) to some parts of the frame's systems (though it could have been a bit more stylized instead of mostly dmg buffs).
i would like to see that (or smt similar) in Ember
 
Likes: Luisedgm

TankHunter678

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2016
369
311
63
#4
I would like to see weapons with 2 fire modes, the ability to customize how those fire modes work (what if I want a try plasma shot barrage with a forward shield? Long range mortar with flamethrower for close combat?), elemental components to change their damage type, as well as components that do not directly increase damage output. Such as using a fixed ammunition system with extended mags, or have it run off of energy and have to recharge.
 

Cadbane

Base Commander
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
70
104
33
#5
Weapons made up of Components that can be swapped out for various setups, yet still class specific. We do not want a Firecat running around with a Heavy Cannon made for a Mammoth, nor a Mammoth with a sniper rifle etc....

What I think would be nice is have the weapon made up of say: (This is just a quick thought!)
Stock (affects Stability, Accuracy)
Chamber (affects reload time)
Barrel (affects Range)
Scope (affects accuracy)
Clip (ammo amount)
3 different "slots" for varying upgrades to various components.
and of course an alt fire of sorts.

Components can be swapped out with crafting for the purposes of they have become damaged with no repair or you want to change or upgrade stats / effects of your weapon.
 
Likes: ObsoleteVodka
Jul 26, 2016
153
186
43
#6
The Division had a rather enjoyable weapon selection and modification; though quite simple.

Ruined only by the fact some weapons had bonuses attached while others did not that made the SMG and Marksman Rifle weapon classes far more superior than other options in many cases.

With a wide variety of weapons they should be modified with attachments.

Fallout 4 does a wonderful job of also modifying nearly every aspect of the weapon that even changes its appearance in drastic ways or makes one weapon function entirely different.

Elemental types like the weapons from Borderlands would also be a wonderful mix to throw in.

In a futuristic world we could do anything. I am more concerned, most importantly, about having more options than; Assault Rifle and Shotgun- like we were in Firefall.
 

NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
182
133
43
#7
Every upgrade should come with an equal downgrade. Not necessarily equal in the numbers used since some stats will be worth more than others, but equal in value. For instance, if higher damage is the upgrade and lower ammo is the downgrade, significantly more ammo has to be taken away to balance out the value of the damage upgrade. I don't think we should get elemental guns like Firefall has. Freezing flamethrowers and poison electricity were a bit too much on the crazy side.
 
Likes: ObsoleteVodka

Cadbane

Base Commander
Base Commander
Jul 26, 2016
70
104
33
#8
Every upgrade should come with an equal downgrade. Not necessarily equal in the numbers used since some stats will be worth more than others, but equal in value. For instance, if higher damage is the upgrade and lower ammo is the downgrade, significantly more ammo has to be taken away to balance out the value of the damage upgrade. I don't think we should get elemental guns like Firefall has. Freezing flamethrowers and poison electricity were a bit too much on the crazy side.
I agree, somethings are just not meant to go together. The problem with Firefall is it is all cookie cutter slots, insert X into Y and get a ":rolleyes:Freezing FlameThrower:mad:". Whether it makes sense or not. How many items did you make with a prefix that didn't even affect the item stats? Better yet how many items couldn't you make with a prefix you wanted cause it was broke? This is the kinda of behavior that would be most unacceptable here.
 
Jul 27, 2016
167
234
43
#9
Every upgrade should come with an equal downgrade. Not necessarily equal in the numbers used since some stats will be worth more than others, but equal in value. For instance, if higher damage is the upgrade and lower ammo is the downgrade, significantly more ammo has to be taken away to balance out the value of the damage upgrade. I don't think we should get elemental guns like Firefall has. Freezing flamethrowers and poison electricity were a bit too much on the crazy side.
I can see elemental working as a form of customization. It shouldn't directly increase the damage, though. Fire would be aoe dot, whereas poison from weapons should be more of a single target, quick but short dot.
 

NoahDVS

Deepscanner
Jul 27, 2016
182
133
43
#10
I can see elemental working as a form of customization. It shouldn't directly increase the damage, though. Fire would be aoe dot, whereas poison from weapons should be more of a single target, quick but short dot.
Explosive napalm bolts or poison bolts are acceptable to me, but no freezing flamethrowers or poison electricity. I also always thought Cryo bullets were dumb. You're not going to freeze someone by shooting them with ice and ice isn't as good for bullets as metal. Freezing gas explosives or throwers are acceptable to me, but I'm still not a big fan.
 
Jul 27, 2016
167
234
43
#11
Explosive napalm bolts or poison bolts are acceptable to me, but no freezing flamethrowers or poison electricity. I also always thought Cryo bullets were dumb. You're not going to freeze someone by shooting them with ice and ice isn't as good for bullets as metal. Freezing gas explosives or throwers are acceptable to me, but I'm still not a big fan.
Of course, yes, keep things within the bounds of logic. I think cryo bullets could work, but it'd be more of a slower ROF cryogen round that actually injected an enemy with something liquid-nitrogen-esque to slow them down.
 
Jul 26, 2016
17
15
3
#13
Elemental damage is already used in Warframe, where you have fire, cold, poison and electric, plus all the combinations of pairs of them, with everything having different status effects, and damage bonuses/penalties against different enemies. It's done through mods so one weapon can be endlessly customised, although it's still worth playing to its strengths, and not trying too hard to compensate for its weaknesses.

Defiance on the other hand didn't have any weapon customisation, and elements were fixed, so you'd need a set of the same type of weapon to get different elements. I suppose that's a bit like Borderlands, although in that game you could mess with the save editor to build your own weapons from parts.

Perhaps something like that would work, where you pick parts like stock, barrel, reciever and scope for things like accuracy, rate of fire, damage, reload speed, and an elemental type, but it uses something akin to Firefall's old power/CPU/mass restrictions, to ensure you can't make something totally OP.
 

OziriusSVK

Death Reaper
Jul 27, 2016
62
44
18
Slovakia
#14
Hello, I will write some of opinions (not all mine), keep in mind these are just opinions and ideas for discussion :)

I would like to see weapons consist of replacable parts,which each part affect one or more characteristic of the weapon. And each part can be adjusted in crafting to what playstyle you want. For example:" Do you want slowly firing big bullets or fast firing small bullets, no problem you just replace 1-2 components and you are done."

+Lots of variability, every weapon is unique
+You dont need to craft whole new weapon

-Complicated

As for elemental damage (or for different types of amunition: explosive, penetrating, etc.) I can see these option:
A: Permanent prefix of a weapon
+Simple
-You need to craft whole new weapon for every type of damage
-No variability during combat
B: Time limited ammo chambers (like in old FF)
+Simple, more variability during combat
+You dont need to craft new weapon for every type of damage
-Changing to different type consumes remaining time from previous
-You are wasting it if you are not shooting or shooting slowly (sniper)
C: Different types of ammo (magazines) that you can freely swap during combat depending on enemy resistance, etc.
+High variability and posibilities for tactical combat
+You dont need to craft new weapon for every type of damage

-Hmm, no idea
I personally prefer C, I would like to change ammo type depending on my actual enemy :)
Also one piece of gear of omniframe then could be "Ammo reserve" (with option C ): which determine amount of magazines that you carry with yourself to combat, and also number of different types of ammo and could affect reload speed. (all balanced through mass/power/CPU)


Perhaps something like that would work, where you pick parts like stock, barrel, reciever and scope for things like accuracy, rate of fire, damage, reload speed, and an elemental type, but it uses something akin to Firefall's old power/CPU/mass restrictions, to ensure you can't make something totally OP.
I absolutely agree :D


Also I would like (greatly like) to see secondary (alternative) fire on weapons :D

Feel free to discuss :)
 
Likes: Joe Solo

Joe Solo

Well-Known Member
Ember Dev
Jul 26, 2016
86
401
53
38
Costa Mesa
www.artguyjoe.squarespace.com
#16
Unreal makes it a lot easier for the possibility of custom gun attachments. In the old FF tools, supporting more polygons/texture space on weapons was a huge issue. It honestly couldn’t really be done. Characters had the same issue.


With Unreal, we will be building this game from a toolset that already allows for customization, basically out of the box. This is thanks to not only sockets, but how their whole support pipeline for animation/bones/meshes talk to each other is broad to say the least. I don't think a certain level of customization is out of the question. I don’t think taking it at least a couple steps further than FF is out of the question. How deep weapon customization goes is still more than a few conversations away. Pouring out ideas like you guys do though is helpful. :)


I want to push for customization of both frames/guns personally if I can. Unreal is already set up to do it basically. It's a matter of internal resources, and what the most immediate milestones need to look like.
 
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EvilKitten

Well-Known Member
Ark Liege
Jul 26, 2016
777
1,557
93
#17
Just to throw in my 2 cents, I really think there should only be a single weapon frame (like the omniframe) with mod slots you can use to customize how the gun works. 3 mod slots should really do it for most customization. It would be up to the player to copy the old firefall specific concepts.

For example: To get the base FF Assault class weapon you could add a mod that increases bullet mass, this mod would also slow down projectile speed to compensate (checks and balances after all). Graphically this mod would make it look like you were shooting a small cannon ball instead of a standard bullet.

Then a second mod could add an explosive effect which would give the weapon AoE, but sacrifice some raw damage to compensate. This mod could add a glowing fire effect to the shot. Thus with 2 mods you changed your omnigun from a standard assault rifle into a grenade launcher.

The key here is to allow a player to customize their weapon to fit the scenario they are going up against, but also to provide a wide array of horizontal potential without adding to vertical power creep. Modular design is in my own personal opinion the way that Firefall should have gone, and I hope that Ember might still follow that route.
 

Bl4ckhunter

Active Member
Jul 26, 2016
157
123
43
#18
I'd like a modular weapon/ability sistem where each weapon can be broken down in 4-5 pieces (2-3 for abilities maybe, depending), think borderlands weapon generation, that can be mix-and-matched as desidered to obtain variable effects, i'd also support permanent item destruction, with "durability damage" applied only on death in severe hits of like 25-30% per death supposing it is accompaingned by full loot of enemies (if the plan is horizontal progression it shouldn't be a problem applying a health multiplier to mobs and using similiar stats to player ones, it also prevents getting out of whack pve balance like in warframe) , meaning that if i kill a humanoid ember's chosen i get his armour and his weapons that i can equip as they are or break into components and mix them with crafted ones on the fly, and with the ability to save blueprints of my favourite gear that i can just obtain the resources/modules and craft from scratch if it breaks.
 

OgreMkV

New Member
Jul 27, 2016
13
6
3
Central Texas
#19
I'd like to avoid classes entirely.

Any frame should be able to pick up any weapon. What would be OK is to have power weapons (lasers, plasma, etc) have power requirements that would require the larger engines in larger frames (for example).

I would also say that weight would be an issue. If a small frame (intended for sniping and speed/stealth for example), picks up a 40mm gatling gun and ammo, then it's going to be slowed significantly more than a larger, tankier frame would be (like 50% loss of speed and stealth compared to 5% loss to the larger frame).

In my ideal system, guns would have mass, ammo/energy, and "bloom" that is... how much noise, visual effect the gun makes). Adding more pieces (bipod, LR scope, AP ammo, more ammo, recoil buffers, etc) increases mass and/or energy requirements.... perhaps requiring a larger frame. One can only upgrade small, stealthy frames to handle heavy weapons, so much before you just need to move to a bigger frame.
 

FoxnEagle

New Member
Jul 26, 2016
2
0
1
#20
This is why I love threads on new game forums!

Everyone has an idea that they would like to see happen

I don't think a certain level of customization is out of the question. I don’t think taking it at least a couple steps further is out of the question. How deep weapon customization goes is still more than a few conversations away. Pouring out ideas liek you guys do though is helpful. :)

I want to push for customization of both frames/guns personally if I can. Unreal is already set up to do it basically. It's a matter of internal resources, and what the most immediate milestones need to look like.
Glad to see we have a dev on already and that it sounds like it's already a topic of discussion in the office!

We do not want a Firecat running around with a Heavy Cannon made for a Mammoth, nor a Mammoth with a sniper rifle etc...
I have mixed feelings about this, I find it entertaining having the freedom of having a slow tanky frame with a high damage long range weapon. Kind of like TF2 randomizer, it's just fun and it presents its own challenges, but then you can troll people as well :/

...i'd also support permanent item destruction, with "durability damage"...
AARGH, there's always one of you that wants this... Ah well, to each his own I guess. I hate replacing weapons period, but you do have a point with the horizontal progression (need a reason to keep farming resources). A "fix" that would be interesting would be to have temporary constructs that cost resources that aid in battle.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]