Suggestion: Drop-in Instanced Kaiju hunting

[Thorp]

If it's not already planned, I insist that Instanced zones be drop-in and drop-out compatible.

Sitting in lobbies is not exciting. The games go more smoothly when they allow players to jump into a mission and have others fill in the empty roster.

HellDivers does this well. Players can start a mission on any difficulty and other players can drop pod in at any time. There is a bit of a thrill and suspense wondering if or when reinforcements will arrive. But until then, the players have to make due and play smart. It keeps the players immersed and engaged without telling them to wait; it's the players choice to start a suicide mission without a full roster.

Additionally, HellDivers has a S.O.S deployable that informs other players that your instance needs more firepower and should join you asap.

Lastly, a drop-in compatibility will dampen the general doom when someone leaves/disconnects/ect.

 

[Pandagnome]

What happens if no one turns up at the time could an npc help?

 

[Thorp]

Maybe have npc bots available at a price as mercenaries.

My preference is to have the empty roster slots remain empty until a human player joins. Just like in HellDivers, it poses the question to the player "Are you confident you can survive until reinforcements arrive or are you just gonna hang in the lobby for an unknown amount of time?"

The minor issue I can see with npcs is when a human player joins, that npc will awkwardly vanish.

 

[Pandagnome]

Maybe have npc bots available at a price as mercenaries.

What could dictate the price value of an npc e.g.

npc standard - costs nothing
Basic setup and requires a bit more baby sitting

npc advanced costs 200 beetroots and 52 coconuts
Better setup with improved abilities

npc specialist costs 450 beetroots, 300 coconuts and 10 prunes
Class specific in its role and more smart

I think that npc should at least be free for a basic and if they wanted better npc kinds then they can decide if they would like to by upgrading the npc to help.

Another thing if we already pay for an npc does that get refunded depending on what stage of the mission we are in.

As an example if the npc was used for about half way into the mission taking into account location, npc use and etc etc then the refund could be 50%

The minor issue I can see with npcs is when a human player joins, that npc will awkwardly vanish.

What if the npc could say "I am needed else where, but Reaper bla bla is on their way to help, good luck Reaper 12345" then jets off and vanishes in the sky or the dropship picks npc up just like it does with the thumpr and goes.

To make the vanishing even more quicker perhaps the npc has stealth technology and uses that to vanish with a little sound effect.

Then the player joining makes there way and it is all good !!!

 

[Thorp]

Varying the cost based on npc skill seems needless. There likely would be too many opportunities to argue that a medium and low rank npc are both too dumb or insufficient with the help they provide.

I would say if the npc was to cost anything, it should cost a minor amount. Reasoning is a player is already risking the cost of repairs and loss by engaging a mission with npc bots than if they were to wait for human players. (speculatively speaking). Chances of the player having resounding success with a npc bot, I would imagine anecdotally from other gaming experiences, is far lower than with human teammates.

As for if there would be any refund when other players join, perhaps there would be a percent refunded based on time or progress.

 

[Pandagnome]

Varying the cost based on npc skill seems needless. There likely would be too many opportunities to argue that a medium and low rank npc are both too dumb or insufficient with the help they provide.

Ah yes I must remember the (kiss) Keep it simple silly, think it was @PartTimeJedi who mentioned that magical acronym.

As soon as i thought this an image of a pet helping someone by coughing some sticky furballs causing the opponent problems to see hmm

On another note wonder where everyone is in the forum

 

[liandri]

I suspect that adding a NPC helper wouldn't be worth the development time investment, since Em-8ER's movement options are more varied and a large monster might have a process to kill it (rather than just shoot until it dies). It has to be competent enough, not just to help the player, but to make the demo still look good for those that need to deal with it.

How would you join a hunt? I'm thinking the C menu can do it for now:

- if there is no active hunt, it starts a new hunt instance and moves the player there
- if there is an active hunt with a space available, places the player into the instance
- if a player leaves or drops, a space is available for another to drop in

This way, people are encouraged to join hunts. However, you won't be able to easily group with friends. Another way might be, in the C menu again:

- Create hunt: creates a hunt, and you can assign an optional 4-alphanumeric code. If a code is assigned, people can only directly join your hunt, otherwise it appears on the rotation
- Join hunt: Either you join a hunt that needs another player, or enter a code to join a specific hunt

This way, you can group up with friends, and you can limit your group size to face the Kaiju with a lower number of players.

 

[Thorp]

I would hope players can spontaneously open a menu to join any active hunt or create a queue. Traveling to the Instanced hunt is simple, your dropship picks you up just like your Thumper or you walk to a dropship pad in town.

I agree that hiring a npc for a hunt would require additional ai scripting. I don't expect it to happen. Perhaps if a npc was available for hire, they'd only follow the player and be some sort of support (ammo supplies and repair) until other players arrive.

 

[zabernat#1238]

What about expanding rosters for instanced battles to include “alternate” seats where alternate keeps playing outside of the instance unless required and get a % of rewards if the battle is completed? Or making the encounters non-instanced but give loot based on “team participation” and just let groups or solo players participate or leave at their leisure?

 

[zabernat#1238]

What happens if no one turns up at the time could an npc help?

If that would not work, there may also be an option where groups that lose a member receive a buff or the Kaiju receives a debuff to compensate for the loss?

 

[Sy]

What about expanding rosters for instanced battles to include “alternate” seats where alternate keeps playing outside of the instance unless required and get a % of rewards if the battle is completed? Or making the encounters non-instanced but give loot based on “team participation” and just let groups or solo players participate or leave at their leisure?

I think it would be interesting if there were a continuous non-instanced event occurring outside that instance. Making meaningful success on either the inside and outside each matter to the other would be cool. Then anyone and everyone could have fun; organized or not.

Additionally, imagine if no outsiders could enter, but should an in-instance person exit (leave group, disconnect), then someone already in the greater party could enter after 2 minutes.

 

[zabernat#1238]

I think it would be interesting if there were a continuous non-instanced event occurring outside that instance. Making meaningful success on either the inside and outside each matter to the other would be cool. Then anyone and everyone could have fun; organized or not.

Additionally, imagine if no outsiders could enter, but should an in-instance person exit (leave group, disconnect), then someone already in the greater party could enter after 2 minutes.

Your additional note was essentially my thought above. You form a 6-8 person party for the instance but only 4 go in initially and if any of those disconnect another from the group can pop in. The alternative would be the group automatically search for a person to match and be brought in while the fight doesn’t end or the team leader is able to manually kick and open invite for the spot of the person who disconnects (the manual option could stop a group from losing someone they know and experienced a momentary disconnect but will return to finish the battle).

 

[Pandagnome]

The alternative would be the group automatically search for a person to match and be brought in while the fight doesn’t end or the team leader is able to manually kick and open invite for the spot of the person who disconnects (the manual option could stop a group from losing someone they know and experienced a momentary disconnect but will return to finish the battle).

I'd like to suggest an option that can set the primary 4 in the game and an auto kick for a player once returning player in the original 4 returns to the game. This could work if there was an option tick box for auto kick and with that an automated message saying "Sorry for the boot, we have reserved this space for a player"

I think it would be interesting if there were a continuous non-instanced event occurring outside that instance. Making meaningful success on either the inside and outside each matter to the other would be cool.

If we were to lose on one side does it mean the enemy on that side goes over the other side and makes for more problems and vice versa ?

Also what is far worse losing on the instance or the outside and how does it affect the situation?

 

[zabernat#1238]

This entire thread makes me feel that it’s a good thing they’re developing this game loop into the next playable demo build. Hopefully lots of questions will be answered and we like their first attempt at it

 

[liandri]

The alternative would be the group automatically search for a person to match and be brought in while the fight doesn’t end or the team leader is able to manually kick and open invite for the spot of the person who disconnects (the manual option could stop a group from losing someone they know and experienced a momentary disconnect but will return to finish the battle).

I've been playing a bit of Darktide, and from what I understand about the disconnects is that when a playing is unintentionally disconnected from the game due to a crash, that position is kept open for a brief window (maybe a couple of minutes) so no one else can join. The spot only opens if the disconnected player, upon restarting the game, does not click Reconnect to rejoin, or after an amount of time. I feel this works better than giving players the ability to kick someone for the sake of opening a spot for their friend. If you want to game with friends, then you should have a system where players can lock an instance to their group (or with a code).

Not sure how it would work with connected overworld events (like defending a portal, where any enemy that makes it through joins the battle with the Kaiju). I guess it would be better to group up, or have the system autogroup based on event contribution?

This entire thread makes me feel that it’s a good thing they’re developing this game loop into the next playable demo build. Hopefully lots of questions will be answered and we like their first attempt at it

Can only hope.