Glide mode petition

[zdoofop]

When I read the vision book, it said the omniframe had 3 movement modes: jetpack, skim, and glide. It said nothing about glider pads. I like the idea of not requiring glider pads because glider pads require either a pre-placed pad or taking the time to place an item and finding appropriate terrain to do so. Please just vote aye on the poll if you also want glide mode with no glider pad. NOTE THAT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SKIM MODE. I really am talking about GLIDING without requiring glider packs. What else would the wings be used for after all.

 

[tibfulv]

Grummz is doing a stream right now where he's showing that exact ability.

 

[Pandagnome]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432228699

I really am talking about GLIDING without requiring glider packs. What else would the wings be used for after all.

Got to agree makes sense to have gliding without pads because the wings are on your mech

Travel by

- Jet pack
- Skim mode
- Running/walking
- Gliding with wings extended

- Grappling hook to get across or go up to a higher platform? think this was mentioned to be able to craft from the tsi-hu but wonder if this could be used like bionic commando for movement?
- vehicles in the future

 

[Terib.Shadow]

I believe it's already been talked about that you shouldn't need anything to use your wings, can't recall where or when though, it's been a long time, either way, might as well not have glider pads, deploying wings at will might be more simple to do.

 

[Maven]

The original plan was not to have glider pads, indeed. As noted in the vision book, Omniframes section, under Omniframe Movement Ability modes:

• Glide: By leaping from a height and deploying their wings, omniframes can glide over great distances. While they can’t self-launch, an omniframe can glide from any higher land to lower ground.

This had also been reiterated on discord:

Grummz 05/04/2019

Ya so soaring afterburner let you pop wings without a pad. Well, pads won't be required in Em8ER

But as per the latest stream on the 30th May, Grummz has presented his concerns with allowing the player to glide without using a glider pad, from any location.

Skip to 07:45:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432228699

This ties into Mark's opinions on flight in WoW, or any other MMO for that matter. Having flight as an option effectively 'shrinks' the world. People just use it to travel from point A to point B without actually exploring/interacting with the world that was created by the devs. Having a glider on demand (in-built into the mek-a) means you can effectively jet upwards and activate gliders to move away from any location on demand. This almost resembles a 'restricted' flight option. With having to use a glider pad, the team can restrict the 'fast travel' option and encourage exploration of the world instead of just skipping over vast swathes of content.

Personally, I'm fine with limiting the use of gliding. I'd rather be skimming over terrain, or using my bike to travel from point to point. It feels a lot more involved than just soaring over terrain. The view is great, of course, but it takes away a lot of the fun, especially once the world has grown large enough. A few well placed glider pads around the zone could easily give you options to move around quickly for those that would like to do so.

However, this also means that allowing players to place personal glider pads at their location of choosing would have to be restricted. If on a sufficiently low cooldown, players could simply pop glider pads anywhere they please and repeat the same to get across the map just as they would if they were to have gliders integrated into their mek-a.

 

[Aisman_]

I like the idea of having gliding pads more than just activating gliding by itself when falling, since you will have vehicles to travel longer distances.

 

[EvilKitten]

What if gliding consumed fuel? with how tiny the wings are your flight would be much like a modern day fighter jet, fast when it has powerful engines behind it, but remove the engines and the plane falls rapidly out of the sky. If gliding used fuel (at a reduced rate from hovering) then you could limit how far you can fly and so keep things balanced.

This would be different from skim mode which uses ground effect to greatly increase the lift capacity of your wings and so use fuel at a low enough rate to be below your natural ability to regenerate it (thus infinite skim mode). Without the ground effect you would require more fuel to burn and so would run out.

Also don't forget that Tsi-hu can pull you out of the sky, so attempting to glide your way out of a battle may not be as effective as one might hope for.

 

[zdoofop]

The original plan was not to have glider pads, indeed. As noted in the vision book, Omniframes section, under Omniframe Movement Ability modes:



This had also been reiterated on discord:

Grummz 05/04/2019


But as per the latest stream on the 30th May, Grummz has presented his concerns with allowing the player to glide without using a glider pad, from any location.

Skip to 07:45:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432228699

This ties into Mark's opinions on flight in WoW, or any other MMO for that matter. Having flight as an option effectively 'shrinks' the world. People just use it to travel from point A to point B without actually exploring/interacting with the world that was created by the devs. Having a glider on demand (in-built into the mek-a) means you can effectively jet upwards and activate gliders to move away from any location on demand. This almost resembles a 'restricted' flight option. With having to use a glider pad, the team can restrict the 'fast travel' option and encourage exploration of the world instead of just skipping over vast swathes of content.

Personally, I'm fine with limiting the use of gliding. I'd rather be skimming over terrain, or using my bike to travel from point to point. It feels a lot more involved than just soaring over terrain. The view is great, of course, but it takes away a lot of the fun, especially once the world has grown large enough. A few well placed glider pads around the zone could easily give you options to move around quickly for those that would like to do so.

However, this also means that allowing players to place personal glider pads at their location of choosing would have to be restricted. If on a sufficiently low cooldown, players could simply pop glider pads anywhere they please and repeat the same to get across the map just as they would if they were to have gliders integrated into their mek-a.

you want to put limits on gliding, fine. I get that. just not glider pads There are other ways to do this. For instance, you could disable the jetpack while converting to glide mode which takes a few seconds so you can't just fly up and glide down. you could not have the initial jump before gliding and you could only glide while falling. Just not glider pads.

 

[Mahdi]

I'm not one to overuse a mechanic like the gliding, I love the immersing element to a game world. But I too prefer not to have glider pads and I think that Kitten is on to something, but I have to say, after watching the stream I get what Grummz is saying, makes a good point. Totally understand it.

Would be an easy resource sink that could help player economy. With many things for this early development, I'd go with the least time and cost. Revisit this down the road.

 

[Wyntyr]

My suggestions are these:

1. Allow the on-activation of the glider as a one time use which goes on a long cooldown (very slight tweaks to it with Omni-Frame crafting).

2. Allow additional glider control, lessen cool downs significantly and/or add additional charges, etc. for the Glider Movement Mode as an ability. This would let the player make the choice on the use of an ability slot to gain better glider functionality or not.

No glider pads please. Allow the players to pick their fun. If fast travel is the primary issue, then I believe Team Em.8ER can, and will, figure out a solution so glider pads remain a thing of the past (FF successor after all...not FF). Thank you.

8 for Em.8ER

 

[Dam13n]

Aye

1. Gliding was its own skill based movement mechanic, it is something that we as Firefallians take for granted but it is not just "fast travel".

2. Jumpjetting upwards to then deploy a glider would not be the most effective way of travelling, skim mode as it is advertised would probably be, easiest to get in and out of. Depending on the terrain though.

3. At later stages gliding does become an effective means of travel but this is mostly to "scout" for dynamic events by climbing the highest points of the map and this could be done with a gliderpad just the same, the glider cooldown was only a minute, by the time you touched the ground it was usually usable again.

4. Soaring Afterburner. Nuff said. it basically sold itself. Maybe it was a bit OP in the movement department but the last thing it did was make people bored of the world and traveling through it.


edit: in combination with movement abilities it's not so clear cut and it depends on, whether you can activate abilities while gliding (all, some or non), the terrain, whether gliding has a cooldown and if those movement abilities on themselves are not already highly effective and if only mildly more so or far more in combination with a glider.

Multi afterburner was a more OP ability than soaring afterburner for example. Gliderpads were OP in there own way, you could put them down during combat and have a mini "Soaring Afterburner" ready at all times. With all the different movement abilities, skimming, jumpjets, etc you can be sure that players will find the real meta movement not directly intended by developers anyway. The balance would be about not creating too much of a gap between movement based frames and for example more tank based frames. Otherwise you get people demanding (with good reason) to nerf those other classes.

Either all frames are highly mobile (to a degree) or non really are.

 

[Pandagnome]

What if gliding consumed fuel? with how tiny the wings are your flight would be much like a modern day fighter jet

Would the fuel replenish in time slowly refilling from e.g. weapon fired or abilities used converted into energy to be stored.

Could we obtain certain crystals from thumping and use them for super fuel that gives us improved energy boost but more faster but for shorter duration than standard gliding

Perhaps these special fuels are consumables we can just add one and ZOOOOOOM hmm

you want to put limits on gliding, fine. I get that. just not glider pads

What if glider pads are better for vertical take off than just going forward with bonus height gives us more time in the air than without glider pads.

Pros and cons

Booster fuel system:
+ Very Fast
+ short - med distance
- High energy consumption
- Shorter duration
- Cool down to use again or could overload glider systems
- Obtaining energy requires specific Minerals/crystals

Recharged Energy system:
+ Energy can replenish by /weapons/abilities
+ Medium distance
+ Energy consumption medium
+ Medium duration
- No cool down but must replenish energy to make use

Glider Launcher pads:
+ Very high vertical launch
+ Long distance
+ speed variable depending on glide paths and even use of environmental aid such as wind
+ No energy consumption
- Cool down before use since glider pads use its own energy system

Just ideas this way there is options for no pads or pads!

 

[EvilKitten]

@Pandagnome I'm not sure that having energy recharged from firing your weapon really makes any sense, my previous post indicated that the fuel used was for your jets, the same jumpjets used for maneuvering under non glide mode.

I would assume that the energy used for the jets, abilities and other power requirements of your suit would come from a cold fusion reactor buried in the Omni-frame. Grummz spoke about having power allocation, I feel that jumpjets should be one of the options you can give more or less power to. Allocate all of your power to jumpjets and you can glide further, but your shields will be very weak and you would be in danger if you were pulled out of the sky by a Tsi-hu.

There is also another limitation that I don't think has been mentioned yet in this thread. Without the aid of a jump pad, you will have to expend energy getting up to height before you can deploy your glide wings. This means that unless you are jumping off a cliff, you would not be starting your glide with a full fuel bar.

This would be a benefit to having a jump pad. Jump pads could be a major bonus at any base. Particularly if, as you say, it launches you up super high. You start out with a full fuel reserve and much higher than you could reach with your normal jets, giving you a much longer flight distance.

 

[Pandagnome]

I'm not sure that having energy recharged from firing your weapon really makes any sense, my previous post indicated that the fuel used was for your jets, the same jumpjets used for maneuvering under non glide mode.

Guess it sounds better as an ability

Grummz spoke about having power allocation, I feel that jumpjets should be one of the options you can give more or less power to. Allocate all of your power to jumpjets and you can glide further, but your shields will be very weak and you would be in danger if you were pulled out of the sky by a Tsi-hu.

I like this and it makes it risky with low shields and some would try to fly behind objects or use their environment as cover unless it was open space then well its like a scorpion from mortal kombat latching on to you and giving you a greeting !

I would assume that the energy used for the jets, abilities and other power requirements of your suit would come from a cold fusion reactor buried in the Omni-frame

 

[Estender]

I say there is a compromise to be had.
Have the GlidePads, and allow to engage the mode freely, BUT on a certain height.
This would give more choice to the players without necessarily "shrinking" the world, since you'd either had to find a mountain or a hill to fly off from, or be very proficient with how you use the fuel and movement abilities.