About hip firing

[Omnires]

First thing, first. I like hip firing and not being forced to use the weapon sights to be able to hit a target. Hell, in my younger days I use to be able to fire a bow and arrow from the hip and even with my feet to hit a target. I was able to do things like that because of proprioception, spatial awareness, muscle memory, the ability to make maps of my surroundings in my head and use triangulation to aim without the need to look. Which are abilities that everyone has, think about those times you wake up in the middle of the night to use the rest room without needing to turn on the lights or how you can type on a keyboard without looking. So forgive me if at times I might seem to be a little biased on the subject, because to me this not something that is that hard to do or get good at doing with some practice.

This is a topic that always bothers me in games with things like guns in them. And that is how game devs artificially lower the accuracy and precision of players who fire from the hip to force them to use the sights or scope on a gun despite the fact that is not how guns or aiming works. You don't need to able to see a target to be able to hit it, just like how you don't need to look down the sights of a gun to be able to aim it. After all, do you need to be looking at something and looking down your arm every time you try to grab something that is behind you? All you need to know is where you are in relation to the target and have proprioception.

But in this game we'll be fighting in robots and we'll have advanced technology to use. If I can put things like a laser sights and camera on my gun in real life to allow me to easily aim at something without the need to hold the gun at eye level or even being in a different room as it. What is stopping people from doing that in the future? Why can't I have a small camera that is built into or attached onto my guns that is linked to my HUD? So there can be an icon that only I can see showing me what the gun barrel is pointed at (a targeting reticle) or even just a small picture within a picture display of what my gun sees off in the corner of my screen (like what pilots who fly fighter jets or attack helicopters see). Even if the weapon has a lot of recoil it doesn't really effect the accuracy or precision of the weapon unless you are doing rapid fire, but if you do controlled fire you'll always be able to readjust your aim to get back on target before the next shot. And this holds true no matter if you are using a handgun, shotgun, assault rifle, or sniper rifle.

What are your views on the topic of hip firing in games? Do think this game should allow people to fire from the hip without artificially making them miss targets? Do you think the idea of hip firing should be banned? I want to have a reasonable debate about the topic. Even if I'm for the idea of having accurate hip fire in the game for all gun types. I can agree with arguments against it as long as they reasonable with sound logic.

 

[Pandagnome]

the ability to make maps of my surroundings in my head and use triangulation to aim without the need to look. Which are abilities that everyone has, think about those times you wake up in the middle of the night to use the rest room without needing to turn on the lights or how you can type on a keyboard without looking. So forgive me if at times I might seem to be a little biased on the subject, because to me this not something that is that hard to do or get good at doing with some practice.

This makes alot of sense to me especially the night time going to the rest room without lights you already have a good idea where everything is in relation to you with the practise and memorized in the mind.

if the weapon has a lot of recoil it doesn't really effect the accuracy or precision of the weapon unless you are doing rapid fire, but if you do controlled fire you'll always be able to readjust your aim to get back on target

Controlled fire absolutely having short bursts!

we'll be fighting in robots and we'll have advanced technology to use. If I can put things like a laser sights and camera on my gun in real life to allow me to easily aim at something without the need to hold the gun at eye level

Thats true with high tech gear to assist the player e.g.

-echo location /bio sonar using the vibration that hits an object or enemy and recieving the info, perhaps it would look like a small colour wave in that direction red for enemy and so on.

- laser sight as you mentioned without the use of aiming but would it need calibrating to be better?

- Camera's/goggles would they have nightvision, infrared, ultra violet to make viewing easier even scans from the spectrum
like X-ray and that be like predator wow ok i am getting carried away again but woah all those cool scans ^^
Maybe its a module for the weapon or frame who want to specialize in that area?

- smart projectiles those that you can use to control the path it goes around corners and hello.. BOINK!
but if thats too much a smart gun like this beauty particularly nice with that wonderful sound like a vcr that has got stuck
and is fast forwarding at the sametime its beautiful apart from all the messy tape hmm

If i remember right the smg in firefall could be used hip fire, i preferred it because of the run and gun style
but then i like the aiming too just to use the scope to have that nice reticule, a sniper scope would be better or such but saying that having different scope attachments can be interesting for those who like aiming down but having slower moment.

I am not a scope expert but wonder how many types of scopes there could be?

Hip firing i'd like to have without or with aiming down too, as it doesnt force the player to play to just aim down the scope but using your judgement and playing it how you prefer for the given situation and makes playing the game more fun.

Speaking of fun I like pets that could do something like this especially nice for difficult situations to buy some time
nothing to do with hip fireing but well its nice i think

 

[Torgue_Joey]

F*CK SCOPE. WE GOT RECOIL DAMPENING FRAMES WITH PRECISION SERVOS.

AS A HEAVY GUNNER AND A SUCKER FOR A-O-E. F*CK CROSSHAIR.

 

[Ronyn]

First thing, first. I like hip firing and not being forced to use the weapon sights to be able to hit a target.

Gunplay will likely be very similar to firefall which, if you recall, most weapons do not even have aim down sights let alone require it to hit targets reliably.

 

[Omnires]

Gunplay will likely be very similar to firefall which, if you recall, most weapons do not even have aim down sights let alone require it to hit targets reliably.

That is good to know. And back in the days of beta of FireFall it was one of the things I loved about the game.

But here is one of the hot button issues. Should people with sniper rifles be able to fire form the hip with high accuracy even if weapon is designed to kill most enemies in the game in one shot?

I'm for the idea of such things because it is part of my nature, like defeating enemies with the least amount of hits possible. Because of this I'm more inclined to do things like using sniper rifles at close range while I do run-and-gun tactics. I don't see such a thing as being over powered like some who are against it argue because of the nature of sniper rifles. The way I see it, we sniper mains willing give up things like rate of fire and even ammo capacity to have overwhelming power with unmatched accuracy and precision. But it's nature trying to run-and-gun with sniper rifles is a high-risk high-reward kind of playing style. Yes, we can kill everything short of bosses in one or two hits. But there is at slow fire rate we are working with, so if it doesn't die in one hit or we miss the shot we have to try and survive long enough to for the next shot to be ready. Why make such a play style that needs a lot of skill do will be impossible to do by artificially lowering the accuracy and precision of the player just because of the idea some people have that sniper rifles are for long range fighting only and can only be used with scopes? While at the same time allowing people run around with things like miniguns with near pin-point accuracy.

- Camera's/goggles would they have nightvision, infrared, ultra violet to make viewing easier even scans from the spectrum
like X-ray and that be like predator wow ok i am getting carried away again but woah all those cool scans ^^
Maybe its a module for the weapon or frame who want to specialize in that area?

- smart projectiles those that you can use to control the path it goes around corners and hello.. BOINK!

What about cameras that highlight weak points on enemies? For example, let's say there is a type of enemy with high defense but we know that such a defense needs a lot of energy and generates a lot of heat. So we use the thermal optics to see the heat levels of everything. Than you see a spot that is given off way to much heat than what is normal. You just found the source of defense or at the least a weak point in the defense that is allowing the extra heat to escape.

As for smart bullets do you mean things like this?

 

[Nunaden]

welp - for hip firing its really the distance that matters - ya cant fucking hipfire on a target 50 or 100m away.
and since im a fan of the Insurgency Family (Insurgency, Day of Infamy, Insurgency: SANDSTRORM) of games i really like the whacky hip-firing system (your gun never really points at the mid of the screen but points somewhere in an area about half the screen and will also sway around and move when you try to look around (you can even move the gun without moving the camera by moving the mouse just slightly )). It also makes attachments as simple as a flashlight very useful (especially on a shotgun heh - and turns lasers in CQC into a running red light of death). And since we are in the FuTuRe! we prolly got stuff like aim assistance that can make something like the hip-fire system from Insurgency very interesting (just pls dont turn it into a fucking aimbot).

And yes - i generally dislike Crosshairs except they are well implemented (eg war thunder lol)

 

[Drakin5]

It’s the future so there would be aim assist but that would be broken in a game perspective when sniper rifles come into play. So the solution is to have aimbotting up to a certain distance. If your target is beyond that set distance, well l2aim.

 

[Pandagnome]

killing floor 2 the railgun has a lock and target feature which needs to be at the target for a small time until it locks for it to hit the target but has reduced damage compared to the non-assistance fire which has higher damage if i remember.

Would there be a trade off for using aim assist such as reduced damage or speed for higher accuracy and better energy economy for longer battles? etc etc

Back to aliens again sorry but just love how it looks with the reticule and those numbers and have no idea
what half of them mean but it looks great!

 

[Omnires]

It’s the future so there would be aim assist but that would be broken in a game perspective when sniper rifles come into play. So the solution is to have aimbotting up to a certain distance. If your target is beyond that set distance, well l2aim.

I can see that as a possible work around. Although personally I wouldn't use it. As long as the accuracy and precision of sniper rifles are the same no matter if you are fighting from the hip or using the scope I'll be happy. And if you make so different enemy types have different weak points and stuff it becomes a matter of how good your aim is at different ranges. So if I can see it I can hit it, even without a scope, but if I want to hit that small weak point on, say a leg join, I might want use my scope because I'm kind of far away. I'll hit the target without the scope at this range, but if I want to hit that small unarmored part at this range, time to zoom in. And so even without aim botting, you getting people different options on how they want to play the game and actively choosing on if they want to use the scope or not.

But now we get into the concept of effective ranges and is an acceptable range each type of gun and firing pattern. The maximum effective range is the distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired effect. Snipe rifles by there nature have a longer effective range than other types of gun with the main draw back being the slow rate of fire and small ammo capacity. Although we could add in another difference being ammo types. As most guns and ammo are designed to be anti-materiel (used on hard or armored targets) or anti-personnel (used on soft or fleshly targets). Although snipers can use both types of ammo no problem.

killing floor 2 the railgun has a lock and target feature which needs to be at the target for a small time until it locks for it to hit the target but has reduced damage compared to the non-assistance fire which has higher damage if i remember.

Would there be a trade off for using aim assist such as reduced damage or speed for higher accuracy and better energy economy for longer battles? etc etc

Back to aliens again sorry but just love how it looks with the reticule and those numbers and have no idea
what half of them mean but it looks great!

I think a good idea will be have different types of guns designed for different things along with different ammo types designed for different things. These way people can mix and match guns with ammo types to gear their fighting one way or another. So sticking with sniper rifles for example. You'll have 2 classes of sniper rifle to pick from, You can go with the anti-materiel sniper rifle which have really high damage per round but a low fire rate and small capacity or you can go with the anti-personnel sniper rifle which have a higher rate (there are some full auto sniper rifles in real life) and large ammo capacity but doesn't have as much range and damage. Also for AOEs the anti-materiel sniper rifle can use different types of explosive rounds and the anti-personnel sniper rifle can use things like hollow-point rounds (things that are designed to turn into fragments and shrapnel when hitting something).

 

[Pandagnome]

I might want use my scope because I'm kind of far away. I'll hit the target without the scope at this range, but if I want to hit that small unarmored part at this range, time to zoom in. And so even without aim botting, you getting people different options on how they want to play the game and actively choosing on if they want to use the scope or not.

I like this, hitting the smaller unarmored parts could be for slowing the enemy movement and even eventually impacting that part useless. For those hitting the bigger area using for example aoe explosive projectile to shock and cause some damage to the outer lay/shields.

Thinking of stats
what would there be such as elemental, physical damage and then the resistance of the enemy would that be kept same or could it randomly change by the effect of numbers against the enemy or other factors like the weather e.g. the enemy harness the larva fire and has improved resistance to fire.

effective ranges and is an acceptable range each type of gun and firing pattern. The maximum effective range is the distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired effect

Say for example could using modules to increase the range stat but in turn negatively reduce something else like speed.
If for example wanted to go high damage it would make my range lower to medium range could be what i am after but then can switch to long range with weapon profiles that leads me to how many weapon profiles would be good and could it be done during missions or rather before?

I think a good idea will be have different types of guns designed for different things along with different ammo types designed for different things. These way people can mix and match guns with ammo types to gear their fighting one way or another.

So we can create our own weapon mix to use for missions or to play around and test.
If there are those who love to test their new cool weapon layout with a desired result could imagine an area called the weapons lab. It would have testing functions where you can see stats of what you have hit the speed of the projectile and all that fancy pants data. Then if people love to share their new found weapon mix they could share it in the weapons lab prebuild section where it gives you overview of the capabilities and some other general info where you can compare it with other builds and even submit your own. This would be nice for beginners wanting a nice build to get them started until they come up with their own style.

 

[Dreamin]

The hip fire thing...

This actually would add a lot of mechanics to the development to be implemented right.

The main reason many games give different accuracy or damage when hip firing as opposed to aimed shots is that the reality of the cone of trajectory for each round really is way beyond most players ability to hit a target and they are giving players "crutches" based on the weapon they use.. Then IF the mechanics are correct the majority of the player base whines and cries because they only hit the target with one shot out of a 25 round clip. These players are the majority and they want to hip fire and hit the target with 23 of 25 rounds everytime, no fail. Thus, the developers alter the actual bullet trajectories to allow for this but decrease the damage as otherwise the targets just become sitting ducks for human aimbots which actually becomes very boring very quick and the weapons become considered overpowered or the "Have to Have" weapon, That's not for me.

The mechanic is referred to as dispersion rate in which each bullet spirals from the barrel differently as the barrel(s) heat up, at cold fire a "sniper" rifle can hold accuracy (shot grouping on a target) for a much greater distance than it can with successive firing. This actually occurs with all projectile base weapons; when you add in the consideration of barrel length, number of full spirals in the barrels rifling, weight and aerodynamics of the slug in use; wind, temperature and barometer variations along the trajectory path this really complicates the firing mechanics required. After all, as stated in the OP, you practiced A LOT to be able to do those things it was a learned thing, less than 1% of people are accurate with quick fire and/or laser scopes. Check out your local gun range and see how accurate others are with a 9mm pistol with laser sites as close as 50 feet. I have seen them, they still miss the target completely (16" x 16" target) with 6 of 16 rounds with successive "non-aimed" firing. Semi-auto rifles are slightly more accurate at this range due to barrel length mechanics alone, hip firing still results the same outcome and with "sniper" rifles one is likely to never hit the target even with laser scope at any distance over 50 feet.

I am not saying its out of the question, but if it is just going to be something to look or sound cool then it will have to be an aimbot or else real players won't use it because it will be too hard to learn to use to be accurate. This was one of the reasoning for the creation of burst rifles. Forcing the user to re-aim, sometimes without them even realizing they are doing it.

Science fiction aside, if I am using a scoped sniper rifle an have to have misses, then why should that player next to me spraying the same target from way out of range be able to even come close to it without actually aiming?

 

[Pandagnome]

The mechanic is referred to as dispersion rate in which each bullet spirals from the barrel differently as the barrel(s) heat up, at cold fire a "sniper" rifle can hold accuracy (shot grouping on a target) for a much greater distance than it can with successive firing. This actually occurs with all projectile base weapons; when you add in the consideration of barrel length, number of full spirals in the barrels rifling, weight and aerodynamics of the slug in use; wind, temperature and barometer variations along the trajectory path this really complicates the firing mechanics required

Say there is alternative to bullets, energy e.g. lasers, electromagnetic, plasma, sonic waves, etc
These have their pros and cons in building the weapon for what you want.
Since energy i assume takes a lot to fire lets say that the capacity is lower as a result the accuracy is much higher the rof would be lower due to charge up

Bullets lets say they are the cheapest to make and come in many forms too though they suffer from recoil depending on the fire mode and if aimed or not. Lets say they can be fired much faster if need to be with aimbot

I am not saying its out of the question, but if it is just going to be something to look or sound cool then it will have to be an aimbot or else real players won't use it because it will be too hard to learn to use to be accurate. This was one of the reasoning for the creation of burst rifles. Forcing the user to re-aim, sometimes without them even realizing they are doing it

I agree on this

if I am using a scoped sniper rifle an have to have misses, then why should that player next to me spraying the same target from way out of range be able to even come close to it without actually aiming?

It would have less damage compared to a scoped sniper shot but you could use the target and lock mode as an alternative to manually aiming too. The individual with the rapid fire weapon would also have the choice to go manual i think this way it gives the players choice on when to switch the aim assist and when they want to go manual.


The balance of damage between manual and aimbot needs to be tested i like the idea of both personally sometimes having a lazy day and using aimbot seems fun and then i'd like to switch it off and manually fire against longer range targets etc.

Depends on the movement of the enemy too you will have fast moving and slow moving perhaps some are in the air etc etc
So the different fire modes, projectile types and even aimbot or not could come into play when needed.

Guess we can really say if its good or not by testing and getting feedback. i do not see the problem as long as it is balanced and generally have a good feel for all modes.

What i love to find out when we get testing is

What would affect the weapons there are a lot of factors

- Enviromental factor - wind, rain, etc
- Weapon projectile used - energy, bullets etc
- module used/ ability - e.g to see through walls at a certain range etc
- Mech used - light frame faster servos, heavy frame medium servos
- how far you progressed in unlocking bp and such - rarity of bp and effect on frame/weapon
- speed of the enemy and its agility - slower enemy easier for targeting
- aimbot/manual - autonomous aiming or aim assist or full manual aim
- acoustic cue for hitting target - makes a bleep sound when on target
- visual cues - highlighted target in a bright colour
- camo if they dont see you they are at a less alert state than if they saw you easier to target
- scope aim or hip aim - run and gun or tactical placement and snipe
- Tripod/stand for stability even turret mode - can be used when swarmed to fire in a small perimeter increases rof when
in turret mode tripod/stand improves accuracy but keeps you stationary for focused shots

What if the aimbot had grades like
aimbot - I = 50% chance to hit target
aimbot -II = 60% chance to hit target
aimbot -III = 70% chance to hit target

just a thought hmm

lets say it would never be 100%

 

[Drakin5]

Just a quick reference:

So should the aimbotting system be this good or less?

 

[Nunaden]

welp - you could also make the aimbotting business some Teamwork business: ppl need to spot and mark the points where the aimbot is going to go
this could create a spotter-shooter relation in combat, especially for snipers as they could be dead accurate while not being totally OP as the spotter has to do a good job too - and then you maybe could do some adjustments with the sights (maybe using the good ole lefty key combo (either TFGH, UHJK pr IJKL))

 

[DropnLock]

F*CK SCOPE. WE GOT RECOIL DAMPENING FRAMES WITH PRECISION SERVOS.

AS A HEAVY GUNNER AND A SUCKER FOR A-O-E. F*CK CROSSHAIR.

I prefer the spray n slay style myself. With those servos will barely miss a shot and splat those Ti'shu dead like swiss cheese.

 

[Pandagnome]

What if the spray was a sleigh and made the enemy slide very far to protect the xmas tree at the local space park.

Just a festive thought hmm

 

[Omnires]

I like this, hitting the smaller unarmored parts could be for slowing the enemy movement and even eventually impacting that part useless. For those hitting the bigger area using for example aoe explosive projectile to shock and cause some damage to the outer lay/shields.

Thinking of stats
what would there be such as elemental, physical damage and then the resistance of the enemy would that be kept same or could it randomly change by the effect of numbers against the enemy or other factors like the weather e.g. the enemy harness the larva fire and has improved resistance to fire.




Say for example could using modules to increase the range stat but in turn negatively reduce something else like speed.
If for example wanted to go high damage it would make my range lower to medium range could be what i am after but then can switch to long range with weapon profiles that leads me to how many weapon profiles would be good and could it be done during missions or rather before?




So we can create our own weapon mix to use for missions or to play around and test.
If there are those who love to test their new cool weapon layout with a desired result could imagine an area called the weapons lab. It would have testing functions where you can see stats of what you have hit the speed of the projectile and all that fancy pants data. Then if people love to share their new found weapon mix they could share it in the weapons lab prebuild section where it gives you overview of the capabilities and some other general info where you can compare it with other builds and even submit your own. This would be nice for beginners wanting a nice build to get them started until they come up with their own style.

I think the idea of having different weapon types and ammo types will help players find their own personal play style and help them enjoy the game more. And I'm talking as someone who sometimes like to play as "off model" characters in games. For example, like making a tank in RPGs that doesn't have armor or much health, but has super high amounts of speed and agility to evade almost every attack. Another example would be making a melee only build for Mesa in Warframe. Some people find it fun to think of ways of using weapons and characters in odd ways and making them work. And for such people it doesn't even matter if other people can use the build or not, because sometime only people with the same personality type that you have would be able to use such a build well. In my life time of playing games, I have seen a few unicorn builds and they was awesome even no one else in the world could understand the logic of them or even use them as will as the creator of them. And such games also have the effect of forming deep communities as people try to find what works for them personally. And getting people learn more about each other and themselves while trying to help each other make the best builds possible.

The hip fire thing...

This actually would add a lot of mechanics to the development to be implemented right.

The main reason many games give different accuracy or damage when hip firing as opposed to aimed shots is that the reality of the cone of trajectory for each round really is way beyond most players ability to hit a target and they are giving players "crutches" based on the weapon they use.. Then IF the mechanics are correct the majority of the player base whines and cries because they only hit the target with one shot out of a 25 round clip. These players are the majority and they want to hip fire and hit the target with 23 of 25 rounds everytime, no fail. Thus, the developers alter the actual bullet trajectories to allow for this but decrease the damage as otherwise the targets just become sitting ducks for human aimbots which actually becomes very boring very quick and the weapons become considered overpowered or the "Have to Have" weapon, That's not for me.

The mechanic is referred to as dispersion rate in which each bullet spirals from the barrel differently as the barrel(s) heat up, at cold fire a "sniper" rifle can hold accuracy (shot grouping on a target) for a much greater distance than it can with successive firing. This actually occurs with all projectile base weapons; when you add in the consideration of barrel length, number of full spirals in the barrels rifling, weight and aerodynamics of the slug in use; wind, temperature and barometer variations along the trajectory path this really complicates the firing mechanics required. After all, as stated in the OP, you practiced A LOT to be able to do those things it was a learned thing, less than 1% of people are accurate with quick fire and/or laser scopes. Check out your local gun range and see how accurate others are with a 9mm pistol with laser sites as close as 50 feet. I have seen them, they still miss the target completely (16" x 16" target) with 6 of 16 rounds with successive "non-aimed" firing. Semi-auto rifles are slightly more accurate at this range due to barrel length mechanics alone, hip firing still results the same outcome and with "sniper" rifles one is likely to never hit the target even with laser scope at any distance over 50 feet.

I am not saying its out of the question, but if it is just going to be something to look or sound cool then it will have to be an aimbot or else real players won't use it because it will be too hard to learn to use to be accurate. This was one of the reasoning for the creation of burst rifles. Forcing the user to re-aim, sometimes without them even realizing they are doing it.

Science fiction aside, if I am using a scoped sniper rifle an have to have misses, then why should that player next to me spraying the same target from way out of range be able to even come close to it without actually aiming?

That is why I started this thread. I think the only way to think of a good balance between realistic skill based playing and casual just-for-the-sake-of-fun playing needs to be thought about and ironed out before hand. Like you pointed out a lot of people don't know about all the biology, psychology, and physics of how and why different weapons work. So asking a normal person to play a game with guns in it to also know basic ballistics is going to be to much. So we have to find a happy middle area where the people who are unaware of such things can still freely enjoy the game while also giving people who do know of such things enough depth within the system to enjoy it. It is the same thing with melee combat in games. Most people don't really know what is the difference between holding a knife / short sword overhand or underhand outside of fact that it looks cool. But for people who know how melee fighting and blades really work, holding a blade overhand or underhand makes a big difference in how you want to fight. Along with the shape, mass, and balance point of the blade itself.

I think this video helps in explaining my goal with this thread.

Just a quick reference:

So should the aimbotting system be this good or less?

Given how this is a sci-fi game where the players will be fighting inside mecha most for almost everything. I think your coming at the idea of aim bots in the wrong way. And this is something other mecha games had to work around. I'll use one of my favorite video game mecha series as an example. In their games you can use things like radar to find targets and you have a targeting computer to help you aim at targets with different weapons. We all have a basic idea of how radar works so I'm not going to get into that now, just know there are a lot of different types of radar, each with their own ups and downs. For now I'll post info about the targeting computers in Armored Core.

The Fire Control System (FCS for short) is an essential part of an Armored Core and is responsible for target acquisition. The Fire Control System is the targeting computer, and controls weapon targeting and missile lock-ons. There are several different kinds, which vary on several attributes such as lock-on speed, maximum lock-on range, maximum lock-on number, or shape and size of lock-on area, suitable for different styles of weapons.

• Missile FCS — FCS designed for use with missiles normally have a long vertical lock box, lock on very quickly with missiles and have a long detection range.
• Sniper FCS — FCS designed for sniper rifle or cannons normally have a small square lock box, lock on very slowly with missiles and have an extremely long detection range.
• Rifle FCS — FCS designed for rifle, pistol or shotgun weapons normally have a wide horizontal lock box, lock on rather slow with missiles and have a fairly short detection range.
• Standard FCS — Standard FCS don't show any particular preference when it comes to lock time, have an even square lock box and a balanced lock on distance.

Notice they made the idea of aim bots into one of the game mechanics and give players customizable options for that kind of aim bot they wanted inside their mecha. No one targeting system was good for everything, and pushing to be better at one thing also meant taking away energy and processing power from something else. The system was there to help you do some tasks better but it couldn't do the work for you. You still have to use the right type of weapons, get into the right detection ranges, and still keep your eye on the target long enough for the computer to do the math needed to lower the risk of the shot missing. But even then it was never 100% because the target can still dodge shots. Or even confuse the targeting system itself by making crazy movements to throw off the math, or using decoys to trick the system, or even jammers to blind the system. So if you really to have aim bots in the game there are ways of doing without lowering skill cap of the game.

welp - you could also make the aimbotting business some Teamwork business: ppl need to spot and mark the points where the aimbot is going to go
this could create a spotter-shooter relation in combat, especially for snipers as they could be dead accurate while not being totally OP as the spotter has to do a good job too - and then you maybe could do some adjustments with the sights (maybe using the good ole lefty key combo (either TFGH, UHJK pr IJKL))

Remember how in FireFall that was how the Recon class SIN scanning abilities was meant to work. The Recon class of frames was meant to be able use SIN to things like link to other player's targeting systems to better highlight where they are. And by linking targeting data allow the snipers to better spot / aim at targets or to let everyone know to focus on a signal target.

Anyway, having players be able to link targeting data with each other doesn't just help snipers. We could have artillery too. Think players who are really slow and heavily armored who can't fight at close to mid ranges because of their lack of movement speed and the fact they use high powered AOEs. I'm thinking of things like people with large mortar type weapons or missiles with high yield payload that takes a long time set up and fire.

 

[Nunaden]

Anyway, having players be able to link targeting data with each other doesn't just help snipers. We could have artillery too. Think players who are really slow and heavily armored who can't fight at close to mid ranges because of their lack of movement speed and the fact they use high powered AOEs. I'm thinking of things like people with large mortar type weapons or missiles with high yield payload that takes a long time set up and fire.

yeah, the snipers ware just an example, it could ofcourse also work on any kind of rocket launcher or on small clusterfuck missle barrages or help CQC players to precisely hit their target with maybe a FA-combat shotgun or a shoulder mounted heavy calibre autocannon (i smell dual-barrel heavy cannons lol)

 

[Torgue_Joey]

WE CAN USE THE "PAN CLOSER TO SHOULDER AND SMALLER CROSSHAIR" MECHANIC WHEN AIMING WITHOUT GOING INTO SCOPE MODE CRAP.

 

[EvilKitten]

So...um...how would you even aim down the sight in a mech...I mean its arms are way out to the side of your physical body right? I assume there is a small optical camera somewhere near the muzzle of any weapon a mech would be able to pick up and a reticle of where it is pointing would show up in Augmented Reality for the user. I would also have a zoom mode on the camera which could be toggled to display in the corner of the HUD so you can maintain situational awareness while also being able to fine target if needed.

But realistically there wouldn't be any distinction of where you fire from when your in a Mech.